(http://www.autounleashed.com/images/nissan_370z_la.jpg)
QuoteNearly every piece and component of the 370Z has been rethought and redesigned, including a shorter wheelbase, greater use of lightweight body materials, larger engine with 26 more hp, a new 7-speed automatic transmission and the world?s first synchronized downshift rev matching system for the 6-speed manual transmission...
The manual matches revs for you? Hope you can turn that off. It'll drive those of us who actually match revs on our own nuts.
You're late.......check before posting.
wrong forum
What a warm welcome.
Quote from: MX793 on November 13, 2008, 04:26:16 AM
The manual matches revs for you? Hope you can turn that off. It'll drive those of us who actually match revs on our own nuts.
I would find that extremely annoying.
Exactly how does it know which gear you're going to downshift into, or whether or not you're going to downshift at all?
Interesting concept, but completely useless.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 13, 2008, 03:58:49 PM
I would find that extremely annoying.
Exactly how does it know which gear you're going to downshift into, or whether or not you're going to downshift at all?
Interesting concept, but completely useless.
Back when I was working for a trucking fleet, I seem to recall hearing that one of our rigs had a gearbox that would match revs for you. Maybe I'm mistaken and it was just synchromeshed.
Quote from: MX793 on November 13, 2008, 05:12:37 PM
Back when I was working for a trucking fleet, I seem to recall hearing that one of our rigs had a gearbox that would match revs for you. Maybe I'm mistaken and it was just synchromeshed.
Never heard of that, but there's lots i haven't heard of.
Still, I wonder: how would the computer know what I want to do? I mean, sometimes it could predict it perhaps: but it can't see a corner ahead or read my mind.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 13, 2008, 05:15:16 PM
Never heard of that, but there's lots i haven't heard of.
Still, I wonder: how would the computer know what I want to do? I mean, sometimes it could predict it perhaps: but it can't see a corner ahead or read my mind.
Not yet....
Quote from: Raza on November 13, 2008, 05:18:46 PM
Not yet....
Imagine the horror of being so sentient and intelligent you can predict the future and read minds, but the only decisions you can ever make are things like "3rd gear or 5th, coast, or blip the throttle?"
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 13, 2008, 05:21:03 PM
Imagine the horror of being so sentient and intelligent you can predict the future and read minds, but the only decisions you can ever make are things like "3rd gear or 5th, coast, or blip the throttle?"
That's pretty much where I am right now.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 13, 2008, 05:15:16 PM
Never heard of that, but there's lots i haven't heard of.
Still, I wonder: how would the computer know what I want to do? I mean, sometimes it could predict it perhaps: but it can't see a corner ahead or read my mind.
Maybe you put it in gear, let it rev match, and then let the clutch out.
Quote from: MX793 on November 13, 2008, 05:12:37 PM
Back when I was working for a trucking fleet, I seem to recall hearing that one of our rigs had a gearbox that would match revs for you. Maybe I'm mistaken and it was just synchromeshed.
Assuming the throttle is DBW, a setup like that would be a cheap way to extend the life of the synchros, since it would only require software changes.
Quote from: Laconian on November 13, 2008, 05:30:46 PM
Assuming the throttle is DBW, a setup like that would be a cheap way to extend the life of the synchros, since it would only require software changes.
Trucks? Synchros? Throttles? Softwares?
If the transmission had a sensor pack either in the shifter detent it could tell the PCM which gear is being selected and match accordingly, but that would require that you declutch, stick the shift lever into the appropriate detent, and then wait for the PCM to rev match it for you before releasing the clutch again. Sounds tedious when I can do it without too much thought on my own already.
Quote from: R-inge on November 13, 2008, 06:26:20 PM
If the transmission had a sensor pack either in the shifter detent it could tell the PCM which gear is being selected and match accordingly, but that would require that you declutch, stick the shift lever into the appropriate detent, and then wait for the PCM to rev match it for you before releasing the clutch again. Sounds tedious when I can do it without too much thought on my own already.
I couldn't even imagine downshifting without rev matching. I tried to explain it to my friend once by showing him what happens, and the first three times I tried it, I rev matched.
Quote from: Raza on November 13, 2008, 06:29:08 PM
I couldn't even imagine downshifting without rev matching. I tried to explain it to my friend once by showing him what happens, and the first three times I tried it, I rev matched.
It's just part of being a competent driver, frankly.
Quote from: 4wheelsonline on November 13, 2008, 12:39:08 AM
(http://www.autounleashed.com/images/nissan_370z_la.jpg)
That picture it not at all flattering. Looks much better from the side or rear quarter...
Quote from: R-inge on November 13, 2008, 06:34:15 PM
That picture it not at all flattering. Looks much better from the side or rear quarter...
Yeah, it looks bad there. I don't think the yellow works for it either.
Honestly this is the one time I wouldn't mind one of those conversion kits to make the car look like something else... :pee:
Quote from: thecarnut on November 13, 2008, 06:37:28 PM
Honestly this is the one time I wouldn't mind one of those conversion kits to make the car look like something else... :pee:
I wonder what Mitsuoka will do with this one........... ;)
Nissan far and away wins the award for the worst head/tail lamp designs of the decade.
Quote from: Submariner on November 13, 2008, 07:05:18 PM
Nissan far and away wins the award for the worst head/tail lamp designs of the decade.
wat
(http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/top10/05.trucks.worst.residual.value/05.pontiac.aztek.500.jpg)
I wonder if someone will make the original 240 front fascia for this. :praise:
It already has the side profile, I'd imagine that the original front would only be an improvement. :huh:
It's pretty simple IMO
When ur cruising it's no biggie.
When ur accelerating u have ur foot to the floor so rev matching is obviously not needed.
When u are playing Keichii Tsuchiya on your favorite mountain pass, odds are u will need to rev match during braking... ECU senses heavy braking, u press the clutch pedal in. Starter switch on the clutch sends signal to ECU, ECU says "hard braking + clutch in = rev match to previous gear". U aren't gonna downshift two gears in one gear change to get into a corner, at least unless you like changing motors.
Only other time u "need" to rev match is if ur on the highway gearing up to pass someone or just floor it. ECU can say, 'ok cruising in top gear at 60mph... clutch in, coasting, prob. looking to pass. Rev match for a 3rd gear downshift'. Cause really, 330HP in a car this size is enough to accelerate from any speed in any gear respectfully on the highway, so I can't imagine downshifting in this unless I wanna floor it/hear the engine scream.
Seems simple to me. I bet it will be implemented smoothly, Nissan wouldn't roll it out if it wasn't. And more importantly, for u Schumachers, it probably has an off button.
Like someone said it's most likely in the interest of gearbox life.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on November 13, 2008, 07:48:44 PM
It's pretty simple IMO
When ur cruising it's no biggie.
When ur accelerating u have ur foot to the floor so rev matching is obviously not needed.
When u are playing Keichii Tsuchiya on your favorite mountain pass, odds are u will need to rev match during braking... ECU senses heavy braking, u press the clutch pedal in. Starter switch on the clutch sends signal to ECU, ECU says "hard braking + clutch in = rev match to previous gear". U aren't gonna downshift two gears in one gear change to get into a corner, at least unless you like changing motors.
Only other time u "need" to rev match is if ur on the highway gearing up to pass someone or just floor it. ECU can say, 'ok cruising in top gear at 60mph... clutch in, coasting, prob. looking to pass. Rev match for a 3rd gear downshift'. Cause really, 330HP in a car this size is enough to accelerate from any speed in any gear respectfully on the highway, so I can't imagine downshifting in this unless I wanna floor it/hear the engine scream.
Seems simple to me. I bet it will be implemented smoothly, Nissan wouldn't roll it out if it wasn't. And more importantly, for u Schumachers, it probably has an off button.
Like someone said it's most likely in the interest of gearbox life.
Why the hell did you just go an entire post using "u" instead of "you"???
Secondly, do you really think that I'd never need to downshift two gears to enter a corner? What if you're going from a straight away into a tight corner? Sure, you could do two quick downshifts, but sometimes I'm lazy and don't feel like doing that.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 13, 2008, 08:09:32 PM
Why the hell did you just go an entire post using "u" instead of "you"???
Secondly, do you really think that I'd never need to downshift two gears to enter a corner? What if you're going from a straight away into a tight corner? Sure, you could do two quick downshifts, but sometimes I'm lazy and don't feel like doing that.
I go 4-2 or 5-2 for corners all the time.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on November 13, 2008, 07:48:44 PM
It's pretty simple IMO
When ur cruising it's no biggie.
When ur accelerating u have ur foot to the floor so rev matching is obviously not needed.
When u are playing Keichii Tsuchiya on your favorite mountain pass, odds are u will need to rev match during braking... ECU senses heavy braking, u press the clutch pedal in. Starter switch on the clutch sends signal to ECU, ECU says "hard braking + clutch in = rev match to previous gear". U aren't gonna downshift two gears in one gear change to get into a corner, at least unless you like changing motors.
Only other time u "need" to rev match is if ur on the highway gearing up to pass someone or just floor it. ECU can say, 'ok cruising in top gear at 60mph... clutch in, coasting, prob. looking to pass. Rev match for a 3rd gear downshift'. Cause really, 330HP in a car this size is enough to accelerate from any speed in any gear respectfully on the highway, so I can't imagine downshifting in this unless I wanna floor it/hear the engine scream.
Seems simple to me. I bet it will be implemented smoothly, Nissan wouldn't roll it out if it wasn't. And more importantly, for u Schumachers, it probably has an off button.
Like someone said it's most likely in the interest of gearbox life.
Where are all these blown up gearboxes they're trying to save us from anyways?
I'm sorry, but there's no way for the computer to know when you're going to stop braking and which gear you're going to be choosing. It could be as drastic as a 5 to 2 downshift
I'm guessing since NYC streets are mainly like +++++ I have never had the chance to do a 5-2 downshift. Again they could turn it off. Thinking about it more though it just seems like a stupid gimmick, but it wouldn't be that hard to implement.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 13, 2008, 11:07:18 PM
Where are all these blown up gearboxes they're trying to save us from anyways?
I'm sorry, but there's no way for the computer to know when you're going to stop braking and which gear you're going to be choosing. It could be as drastic as a 5 to 2 downshift
All this could be done using an advanced shifter gate that has the ability to sense what gear the stick is about to be moved into. In alot of stick you can feel almost two resistance points as you slip it into a given gear. Now imagine if there was a sensor pack that could sense this "initial" movement and then rev match by the time the stick is fully moved into the gear position. This would mean it would be able to match any compination because it isn't thinking which gear you came from, just where you are going. All the computer needs to see is that the shifter is starting to be moved into 3rd and then match the revs for the speed in that gear. Complicated, yes. Pointless, to me. Novelty, certainly. If executed well it could be a "good" feature meaning it wouldn't completely piss you off(GM skip shift anyone?). I think it is completely possible and even possible to integrate it well enough as to make it seem "natural". I personally would care for it though.
Whether or not they could implement such a system is almost irrelevant, since we can do seemingly anything these days with automotive tech, but whether it's useful or dependable is another matter. I wouldn't buy the car if I couldn't defeat such a stupid feature.
Just when you thought it was impossible to make the 350Z door handles any tackier, Nissan outwits you and introduces the door handles of the 370Z. What are these people thinking???
I don't like the rear side windows either--angular corners in an otherwise fairly rounded vehicle. The grille is a little iffy at each end, too. I'd criticize the unnecessarily busy headlights and taillights, too, but I have a 2003 Focus so I have absolutely no right to talk trash about the 370Z's lights. The storage area is outstanding for a sportscar, and the overall package is well done, even if some of the details are rather sketchy. Too bad they went with a plastic cover over much of the engine's details--the potency of the engine speaks for itself, thank you, and has nothing that deserves to be hidden.
Quote from: Raza on November 13, 2008, 06:29:08 PM
I couldn't even imagine downshifting without rev matching. I tried to explain it to my friend once by showing him what happens, and the first three times I tried it, I rev matched.
Quote from: R-inge on November 13, 2008, 06:33:35 PM
It's just part of being a competent driver, frankly.
While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. ;) And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.
Quote from: ChrisV on November 14, 2008, 10:02:39 AM
While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. ;) And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.
Well, this is based on the GT-R's transmission correct? I hear a lot of people are dying from their warranties being canceled just for USING launch control. So maybe it's for the better.
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/11/01_370z_red_spy_gtrworld.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/11/02_370z_red_spy_gtrworld.jpg)
hmmm.
Still not liking the door handles, but I don't mind the lights for some reason.
Quote from: ChrisV on November 14, 2008, 10:02:39 AM
While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. ;) And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.
I drive in the mountains a lot which means that I can go from 5th gear to needing to downshift to 3rd or lower for engine braking on hills, or for spirited driving when I want to downshift for a corner. Rev matching makes life easier for the drivetrain, from the clutch to the gears, by making a smooth transition rather than either popping the clutch or slipping it slowly.
I'm not talking about double-clutching though, I am talking about bringing the revs up to match the gear you selected before releasing the clutch pedal. Maybe that was the original topic, if so my bad.
Quote from: ChrisV on November 14, 2008, 10:18:44 AM
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/11/01_370z_red_spy_gtrworld.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/11/02_370z_red_spy_gtrworld.jpg)
hmmm.
Still not liking the door handles, but I don't mind the lights for some reason.
Door handles too chunky, but I love it from all angles other than the front.
Hopefully people will complain enough about the revmatching so that Nissan will take it out the next year.
Quote from: ChrisV on November 14, 2008, 10:02:39 AM
While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. ;) And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.
I rev match to smooth the transition when I let out the clutch after a downshift (so it doesn't feel like I just stepped on the brakes as the engine gets spun up to match the wheel speed) moreso than to spare the synchros.
Quote from: MX793 on November 14, 2008, 11:08:21 AM
I rev match to smooth the transition when I let out the clutch after a downshift (so it doesn't feel like I just stepped on the brakes as the engine gets spun up to match the wheel speed) moreso than to spare the synchros.
Ditto, i just don't like the sudden jerk of downshifting without matching revs.
After thinking about how this thing might work, I think we all might have been looking at the rev-matching from the wrong angle. Most of us double-clutch our downshifts, so we match revs prior to engaging the next gear. But perhaps this system matches revs after the gear is selected but before (or while) the clutch is being released. This would be akin to the method used to match revs while downshifting on a motorcycle (where there is no neutral between gears) to smooth out the shift. This makes a lot more sense to me since the engine wouldn't have to guess what the next gear selected will be, it will detect which gear was shifted in to and apply throttle appropriately to match the engine speed to the road speed for that gear as the clutch is released.
Still begs the question as to just how useful this will be. Many manual drivers, particularly enthusiasts, either blip the throttle themselves prior to clutch release or double-clutch their downshifts to smooth out the shift.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on November 14, 2008, 11:23:41 AM
Ditto, i just don't like the sudden jerk of downshifting without matching revs.
And in a racing situation, that jerk can cause the tires to break loose if downshifting while under heavy braking. Not a good thing. Besides needing to match revs to get the non-synchro'ed gearbox to even go into the next gear, that's the other main reason why racing drivers match revs on a downshift.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on November 14, 2008, 10:14:41 AM
Well, this is based on the GT-R's transmission correct? I hear a lot of people are dying from their warranties being canceled just for USING launch control. So maybe it's for the better.
Incorrect. GT-R's transmission is a DSG type box, this has a traditional, single clutch manual.
And, it doesn't seem to off the wall, most manufacturers aren't going to cover damage caused by abuse.
Still, never had to do it on the autocross track. Never shocked and locked up the tires. :huh: I don't sidestep the clutch, either, so maybe I simply have smoother transitions. Only time I've really done rev-matching is when I'm not even using the clutch or in an older car/race car with primitive synchros/no synchros.
Quote from: MX793 on November 14, 2008, 11:34:56 AM
And in a racing situation, that jerk can cause the tires to break loose if downshifting while under heavy braking. Not a good thing. Besides needing to match revs to get the non-synchro'ed gearbox to even go into the next gear, that's the other main reason why racing drivers match revs on a downshift.
+1
I used to do that on the Mazda racecar that I drive, but I rev match now. It's scary as hell when the tail starts wiggling on you going into a turn.
Quote from: ChrisV on November 14, 2008, 12:08:03 PM
Still, never had to do it on the autocross track. Never shocked and locked up the tires. :huh: I don't sidestep the clutch, either, so maybe I simply have smoother transitions. Only time I've really done rev-matching is when I'm not even using the clutch or in an older car/race car with primitive synchros/no synchros.
You really must have eased into the clutch. Then again, how many autocrosses have 4th or 5th gear, triple-digit straights that go into 1st or 2nd gear hairpins?
Even with synchromesh gearboxes these days, stock car drivers all still rev-match their downshifts. Motorcycle racers also all blip the throttle to match revs before letting the clutch out on a downshift when braking into a corner.
Quote from: TBR on November 14, 2008, 12:03:44 PM
Incorrect. GT-R's transmission is a DSG type box, this has a traditional, single clutch manual.
And, it doesn't seem to off the wall, most manufacturers aren't going to cover damage caused by abuse.
How is using a manufacturer installed feature of a car the way it's supposed to be used "abuse". If Nissan didn't want to cover the damage caused by the use of the "launch control" system they designed, they shouldn't have put that feature in the car.
Quote from: TBR on November 14, 2008, 12:03:44 PM
Incorrect. GT-R's transmission is a DSG type box, this has a traditional, single clutch manual.
And, it doesn't seem to off the wall, most manufacturers aren't going to cover damage caused by abuse.
Ah I'm not sure why I thought it was based on the DSG. I'm pretty sure the 370Z has rear-mounted transaxles though.
And the launch control is a feature of the GT-R. Why would they void the warrantee from damage incurred by it? More importantly, why make it a feature if it nukes the tranny?
I can't wait for this to come out, as 350Zs will become even more dirt cheap.
Starting to see a pattern here. Those that say they won't drive a car with an automatic are also basically saying thay drive like an old school race car on the street at all times. Especially if one can't conceive of driving any other way...
All I'm saying is with very few exceptions, I've never seen a need to do that on the street or when shifting fast on the track. Never hurt a car by not doing it, either.
Quote from: MX793 on November 14, 2008, 01:32:55 PM
You really must have eased into the clutch.
Nope. I don't sidestep the clutch, but I don't let it out very slowly, either.
QuoteThen again, how many autocrosses have 4th or 5th gear, triple-digit straights that go into 1st or 2nd gear hairpins?
Not to many street situations like that, either. And autocrosses have a lot of up and down shifting very rapidly where run differences between drivers can often come down to thousandths of a second. The only time I wasted any time on extraneous blipping was in race cars with crashboxes, where you had to spend extra time doubleclutching just to get the gears to change at all.
Do it if you want to. Just don't tell me it's necessary in a street car.
Quote from: MX793 on November 14, 2008, 01:35:28 PM
How is using a manufacturer installed feature of a car the way it's supposed to be used "abuse". If Nissan didn't want to cover the damage caused by the use of the "launch control" system they designed, they shouldn't have put that feature in the car.
Launching a car hard is abusing it, especially doing so repeatedly. The transmission should be more robust if they're going to offer launch control, but I assure you that Ferrari or Lambo wouldn't cover a blown transmission either.
Quote from: ChrisV on November 14, 2008, 10:18:44 AM
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/11/01_370z_red_spy_gtrworld.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/11/02_370z_red_spy_gtrworld.jpg)
hmmm.
Still not liking the door handles, but I don't mind the lights for some reason.
Looks pretty good.
Quote from: ChrisV on November 14, 2008, 01:56:50 PM
Starting to see a pattern here. Those that say they won't drive a car with an automatic are also basically saying thay drive like an old school race car on the street at all times. Especially if one can't conceive of driving any other way...
All I'm saying is with very few exceptions, I've never seen a need to do that on the street or when shifting fast on the track. Never hurt a car by not doing it, either.
Nope. I don't sidestep the clutch, but I don't let it out very slowly, either.
Not to many street situations like that, either. And autocrosses have a lot of up and down shifting very rapidly where run differences between drivers can often come down to thousandths of a second. The only time I wasted any time on extraneous blipping was in race cars with crashboxes, where you had to spend extra time doubleclutching just to get the gears to change at all.
Do it if you want to. Just don't tell me it's necessary in a street car.
I actually used to drive without any sort of rev matching. I got tired of the forward lunge induced by downshifting without rev matching and didn't like having to slip the clutch to smooth out the shift. This same "lunge" is something I really dislike about many early and lower end manumatics (and unfortunately, you don't even have the luxury of a clutch to slip with these to smooth that out). In day to day driving, I strive for smoothness. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it since I've had several people comment that they either didn't realize they were riding in a car with a manual gearbox or that they couldn't tell I was shifting unless they were paying attention.
And while I don't drive aggressively enough to cause wheel lock on the streets in good weather, I have had the wheels skid during a downshift in foul weather when I didn't match the revs before letting the clutch out, even when driving pretty gingerly due to the conditions.
Quote from: ChrisV on November 14, 2008, 10:02:39 AM
While I can, and occasionally with a small engine car, it's fun to make it sound like an F1 car, I've never seen the need to do it once they invented synchros. ;) And I've driven manual cars with hundreds of thousands of miles on them, on the street and track, that survive just fine without the extra steps of rev-matching. Unless the car is a poorly engineered POS that needs to be rev-matched in order to keep from blowing up the trans (like, apparently, a new Nissan), it's really just about bragging that you did it, 'cause old racing sports cars needed it.
I see it as being smooth. I didn't even know that old racing cars were like that.
Quote from: TBR on November 14, 2008, 12:03:44 PM
Incorrect. GT-R's transmission is a DSG type box, this has a traditional, single clutch manual.
And, it doesn't seem to off the wall, most manufacturers aren't going to cover damage caused by abuse.
Then most manufacturers should build performance cars if they're not going to honor their warranty for doing something for which the car was built.
So...
Do you think the new car will drop used car prices on the old model or drive them up?
Quote from: TBR on November 14, 2008, 02:20:05 PM
Launching a car hard is abusing it, especially doing so repeatedly. The transmission should be more robust if they're going to offer launch control, but I assure you that Ferrari or Lambo wouldn't cover a blown transmission either.
Do any of the other SMG makers offer launch control on their cars? I know BMW left it out of their American market cars. I believe it was left off for the very fact that they didn't want the liability of repairing the cars under warranty if something broke when launch control was used. IMO, if Nissan wasn't willing to cover it under warranty, they should have left the feature off. A vehicle should not have a feature that, if used properly per the manual, will damage the vehicle.
Quote from: ChrisV on November 14, 2008, 01:56:50 PM
Starting to see a pattern here. Those that say they won't drive a car with an automatic are also basically saying thay drive like an old school race car on the street at all times. Especially if one can't conceive of driving any other way...
All I'm saying is with very few exceptions, I've never seen a need to do that on the street or when shifting fast on the track. Never hurt a car by not doing it, either.
Nope. I don't sidestep the clutch, but I don't let it out very slowly, either.
Not to many street situations like that, either. And autocrosses have a lot of up and down shifting very rapidly where run differences between drivers can often come down to thousandths of a second. The only time I wasted any time on extraneous blipping was in race cars with crashboxes, where you had to spend extra time doubleclutching just to get the gears to change at all.
Do it if you want to. Just don't tell me it's necessary in a street car.
It's necessary in a street car.
Quote from: MX793 on November 14, 2008, 02:41:21 PM
I actually used to drive without any sort of rev matching. I got tired of the forward lunge induced by downshifting without rev matching and didn't like having to slip the clutch to smooth out the shift. This same "lunge" is something I really dislike about many early and lower end manumatics (and unfortunately, you don't even have the luxury of a clutch to slip with these to smooth that out). In day to day driving, I strive for smoothness. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at it since I've had several people comment that they either didn't realize they were riding in a car with a manual gearbox or that they couldn't tell I was shifting unless they were paying attention.
And while I don't drive aggressively enough to cause wheel lock on the streets in good weather, I have had the wheels skid during a downshift in foul weather when I didn't match the revs before letting the clutch out, even when driving pretty gingerly due to the conditions.
My E320 needed a throttle blip to smooth out the downshifts, as did my Passat. A lot of them were like that, but it could work.
And also, I'm still kind of new to this, but when you rev match, what exactly are you doing? I shift into gear, let out the clutch to near the takeup point, dial in some revs, and then release the clutch fully. Is that what I'm supposed to be doing?
Quote from: Raza link=topic=16418.msg922830#msg922830 date=1226699917
My E320 needed a throttle blip to smooth out the downshifts, as did my Passat. A lot of them were like that, but it could work.
And also, I'm still kind of new to this, but when you rev match, what exactly are you doing? I shift into gear, let out the clutch to near the takeup point, dial in some revs, and then release the clutch fully. Is that what I'm supposed to be doing?
You're not even supposed to use the clutch. If you rev match correctly, you won't have to.
Quote from: Raza on November 14, 2008, 02:58:37 PM
And also, I'm still kind of new to this, but when you rev match, what exactly are you doing? I shift into gear, let out the clutch to near the takeup point, dial in some revs, and then release the clutch fully. Is that what I'm supposed to be doing?
Yeah, that's all you need to do to avoid shift lurch. An all-out double-clutch is unnecessary in a modern car with synchromesh.
Quote from: NACar on November 14, 2008, 03:00:52 PM
You're not even supposed to use the clutch. If you rev match correctly, you won't have to.
Depends on if you're rev matching the gearbox or just dialing out shift lurch by rev matching the clutch plates. If you're matching the gearbox, yes, you don't even need to use the clutch.
Quote from: MX793 on November 14, 2008, 03:12:05 PM
Depends on if you're rev matching the gearbox or just dialing out shift lurch by rev matching the clutch plates. If you're matching the gearbox, yes, you don't even need to use the clutch.
That's how real enthusiasts do it :devil:
Yeah, the original poster just made a mistake. It's the automatic trans with a torque converter (no DSG) that does the rev matching, not the 6MT
Quote from: HotRodPilot on November 14, 2008, 03:20:00 PM
Yeah, the original poster just made a mistake. It's the automatic trans with a torque converter (no DSG) that does the rev matching, not the 6MT
Ah, thanks for clarifying that.
Rev matching is where you press the gas before letting the clutch out after downshifting, right?
I do that all the time. I'm so unsmooth in an MT car that I need it to drive somewhat smoothly. :lol:
Quote from: R-inge on November 14, 2008, 03:56:41 PM
Ah, thanks for clarifying that.
I feel like such a dork now.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 13, 2008, 03:58:49 PM
I would find that extremely annoying.
Exactly how does it know which gear you're going to downshift into, or whether or not you're going to downshift at all?
Interesting concept, but completely useless.
it might rev match if you tap the throttle after clutching in....
I don't care about rev matching.
Quote from: Catman on November 15, 2008, 10:22:13 AM
I don't care about rev matching.
I blame rev matching on Obama.
Quote from: the Teuton on November 15, 2008, 10:25:21 AM
I blame rev matching on Obama.
I was thinking the same thing....weird. I think it's more devious then that though. Obama certainly had a hand in that headlight design or even more likely Biden.
Quote from: Catman on November 15, 2008, 10:36:04 AM
I was thinking the same thing....weird. I think it's more devious then that though. Obama certainly had a hand in that headlight design or even more likely Biden.
And maybe those gargantuan door handles, too.
Quote from: the Teuton on November 15, 2008, 10:46:22 AM
And maybe those gargantuan door handles, too.
Without a doubt. They look Borg.
Quote from: Catman on November 15, 2008, 10:53:30 AM
Without a doubt. They look Borg.
Borg. It sounds Swedish. ;)
Quote from: the Teuton on November 15, 2008, 11:18:55 AM
Borg. It sounds Swedish. ;)
(http://assimilated.pl/borg.gif)
You completely missed the reference. First Contact?
Quote from: the Teuton on November 15, 2008, 11:22:00 AM
You completely missed the reference. First Contact?
No I get it. Not sure where the pic is from. That handle does look Borg though.
Quote from: the Teuton on November 15, 2008, 10:25:21 AM
I blame rev matching on Obama.
This is getting annoying. Keep politics in political threads if you're just post inane bullshit like this.
I
will report the next one.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=16418.msg923410#msg923410 date=1226781344
This is getting annoying. Keep politics in political threads if you're just post inane bullshit like this.
I will report the next one.
LOL! I started it. I will tone it down for you. :rastaman:
Quote from: Raza on November 15, 2008, 01:35:44 PM
This is getting annoying. Keep politics in political threads if you're just post inane bullshit like this.
I will report the next one.
Report
Obama Yo'momma.
Quote from: Catman on November 15, 2008, 01:37:05 PM
LOL! I started it. I will tone it down for you. :rastaman:
See, look what you did. You got me in trouble!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=135826?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1.*
looking forward to the specs on wensday.
I'd like to hear numbers like 350HP and 3100-3200lbs.
It's very Japanese and very Z-car, without a doubt. The front grille/bumper and headlights sadden me, however, because the side and rear views are so delightfully origami-tastic and distinctive.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on November 17, 2008, 08:35:23 PM
looking forward to the specs on wensday.
I'd like to hear numbers like 350HP and 3100-3200lbs.
I heard 600bhp, 2200lbs, and 70mpg.
Quote from: Raza on November 18, 2008, 12:32:12 PM
I heard 600bhp, 2200lbs, and 70mpg.
Killing time waiting for the tow truck?
You could be arranging the 3 phone numbers in your address book.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on November 18, 2008, 12:54:51 PM
Killing time waiting for the tow truck?
You could be arranging the 3 phone numbers in your address book.
I have like five numbers in my address book, douchebag.
Quote from: Raza on November 15, 2008, 01:35:44 PM
This is getting annoying. Keep politics in political threads if you're just post inane bullshit like this.
I will report the next one.
To who? The mod who started it? :lol:
I'm sure Obama will ease your anger. ;)
Quote from: HotRodPilot on November 14, 2008, 03:20:00 PM
Yeah, the original poster just made a mistake. It's the automatic trans with a torque converter (no DSG) that does the rev matching, not the 6MT
Well, according to the official specs on C&D, it's the 6 speed manual that rev matches (as does the auto, but that's not a new feature). It's also apparently (and thankfully) optional. Unfortunately, it's packaged with the limited-slip diff as part of a sports package.... sigh.... Hope it has an off switch.
Quote from: MX793 on November 19, 2008, 07:36:38 PM
Well, according to the official specs on C&D, it's the 6 speed manual that rev matches (as does the auto, but that's not a new feature). It's also apparently (and thankfully) optional. Unfortunately, it's packaged with the limited-slip diff as part of a sports package.... sigh.... Hope it has an off switch.
whats wrong with limited slop?
Quote from: NACar on November 19, 2008, 07:44:04 PM
whats wrong with limited slop?
Problem is that the only way to get the limited slip is to get it packaged with that stupid rev-matching nonsense.
Quote from: MX793 on November 19, 2008, 07:47:59 PM
Problem is that the only way to get the limited slip is to get it packaged with that stupid rev-matching nonsense.
Oh, gotcha. That rev matching thing would be annoying.
Quote from: MX793 on November 19, 2008, 07:47:59 PM
Problem is that the only way to get the limited slip is to get it packaged with that stupid rev-matching nonsense.
Hey, have a little faith. Looks like it's going to see what gear you're sliding into, what speed, and where the clutch is, so as you release the clutch, it revs up. The only way this will work is if this thing is really rev happy, which means a really light fly wheel, or I can't imagine it revving fast enough to the right speed if it only starts when you slide it into gear.
I bet the rev-matching feature will work seamlessly.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on November 20, 2008, 06:22:23 AM
I bet the rev-matching feature will work seamlessly.
Me too, we will know after the first review.
Also MX it looks like there is a off switch to me.
(http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4346/370z03800hx2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Above and to the right is a shift pattern with s-mode under it. Since this picture is clearly of the manual i don't know what else the button could possibly do(certainly doesn't alter the shift throws or anything).
Anyway this looks like a button to turn the rev match on and off and possibly crisp up the electronic throttle response as well, hence the "sport" designation.
Yeah, sorry about that. I just couldn't believe that they'd put "rev matching" on the 6MT. I'm interested to see if it works well and if it's defeatable. The base 370Z with sport package sounds perfect for me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OehkfnDWixA
video of the system in action. Of course it doesn't explain much but the reviewer seems to like it.
Oh hot damn that car sounds awesome
Thanks!
I love the high redline.
Great, another button to turn off every time I get into a car.
Quote from: Raza on November 21, 2008, 08:53:04 PM
Great, another button to turn off every time I get into a car.
It's better than having to use old Sega Genesis codes to defeat traction control like you have to in most modern Lexuses.
upupdowndownleftrightleftrightBAselectstart?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 21, 2008, 08:57:25 PM
upupdowndownleftrightleftrightBAselectstart?
Indeed, Lexus also uses the Genesis-exclusive Mortal Kombat codes:
ABACABB, the blood code
and DownUpLeftLeftARightDown, the DULLARD code, used to access Reptile and the pit of despair after you get 20 flawless victories on the bridge.
Nissan has Polyphony Digital, Toyota has Sega. :rockon:
Quote from: the Teuton on November 21, 2008, 09:13:21 PM
Indeed, Lexus also uses the Genesis-exclusive Mortal Kombat codes:
ABACABB, the blood code
and DownUpLeftLeftARightDown, the DULLARD code, used to access Reptile and the pit of despair after you get 20 flawless victories on the bridge.
Nissan has Polyphony Digital, Toyota has Sega. :rockon:
I guess that means Subaru has Sega also.
Quote from: Raza on November 21, 2008, 09:14:58 PM
I guess that means Subaru has Sega also.
Subaru is still kicking it in the 20th century with that stuff. We're Atari folk.
Quote from: the Teuton on November 21, 2008, 09:17:08 PM
Subaru is still kicking it in the 20th century with that stuff. We're Atari folk.
That means the Cadillac has Pong?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 21, 2008, 09:17:51 PM
That means the Cadillac has Pong?
Cadillac has cricket.
If Subaru has Atari, that means we're an emo folk. Don't hate us for being self-deprecating crybabies.
My guess is that since it is labeled as a "sport" mode that it will default to off when you start the vehicle like most other vehicles with similar sport options for suspension and engine/chassis controls.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 21, 2008, 09:17:51 PM
That means the Cadillac has Pong?
Was it the Toronado that had the CRT screen in the dash? Bet you could play pong on that.
I really like this new model, really like it.
Quote from: MX793 on November 22, 2008, 09:38:10 AM
Was it the Toronado that had the CRT screen in the dash? Bet you could play pong on that.
I thought it was the Reatta?
Quote from: thecarnut on November 22, 2008, 11:29:45 AM
I thought it was the Reatta?
Same platform. Those, and the Riviera, had it too.
Reatta touch screen in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9FmaMyGqoQ
Where's my light pen?
Quote from: MX793 on November 22, 2008, 09:38:10 AM
Was it the Toronado that had the CRT screen in the dash? Bet you could play pong on that.
The Buick Reatta, and some of the later Toronado Trofeos.
I actually like the V shaped headlights here. They look horrible on the maxima.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 13, 2008, 05:15:16 PM
Never heard of that, but there's lots i haven't heard of.
Still, I wonder: how would the computer know what I want to do? I mean, sometimes it could predict it perhaps: but it can't see a corner ahead or read my mind.
Bringing up an old discussion, I found out more about the system that was in a couple of our trucks. I did remember correctly that it would match revs for you during a shift. The system was from Meritor. They call it ESS (Engine Synchro Shift). It would basically let you perform perfect clutchless shifts every time, though it wasn't fully automatic. There was a switch on the shifter that was used to indicate whether you intended to upshift or downshift. To skip gears, you'd have to press the switch multiple times to indicate the number of gears you intend to skip. The computer would do all of the rev matching.
This feature would essentially eliminate the need to heel-toe downshift. I think I would love this feature if it had a switch for sure. The only time I really downshift and need to rev match is going into a corner, when I'm braking too. In which case, I heel toe, but a lot of the times I'm not wearing shoes too conducive to it (boots in the winter, or just heavier, dressier shoes). This way, you can brake and down shift easily.
Cool idea for sure.
Quote from: r0tor on November 24, 2008, 05:56:13 AM
what high redline?
7500 on the dash so prob about 8 for the cutoff, and it makes torque all the way up
Quote from: sportyaccordy on November 24, 2008, 07:11:35 AM
and it makes torque all the way up
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll82/earofgeorge/oh_snap.jpg)
Quote from: sportyaccordy on November 24, 2008, 07:11:35 AM
7500 on the dash so prob about 8 for the cutoff, and it makes torque all the way up
again.... what high redline???
There isn't much that's higher, I think the S2000/M3 are the only ones as high or higher
oh my...
Quote from: r0tor on November 24, 2008, 07:16:58 AM
again.... what high redline???
:lol:
High for a car saddled with antiquated pistons.
BTW, you other guys are dense. :praise:
Quote from: R-inge on November 24, 2008, 10:29:10 AM
BTW, you other guys are dense. :praise:
An RX-8 crank rotation tops out at 3k RPM :huh:
Quote from: HotRodPilot on November 24, 2008, 10:37:02 AM
An RX-8 crank rotation tops out at 3k RPM :huh:
but then my engine also pumps out 450 lbft of torque!!!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=136547?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1.*
Edmunds test.
Sadly it doesn't seem that much faster yet, but it definitely grips alot better .97G and stops alot better 101 ft 60-0.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on November 24, 2008, 10:37:02 AM
An RX-8 crank rotation tops out at 3k RPM :huh:
Well, I learned something new today.
Why would RPM read 3x that number?
Quote from: R-inge on November 25, 2008, 04:29:11 PM
Well, I learned something new today.
Why would RPM read 3x that number?
There's a 1:3 internal gear reduction between the "crankshaft" (rather, it's equivalent) and the engine output shaft (that mounts the flywheel and feeds the transmission).
Quote from: MX793 on November 25, 2008, 04:44:50 PM
There's a 1:3 internal gear reduction between the "crankshaft" (rather, it's equivalent) and the engine output shaft (that mounts the flywheel and feeds the transmission).
So... that gear multiplies output speed by 3X going out to the flywheel? RPM would mean flywheel speed in this case then right?
actually the rotors orbit at 1/3 the speed of the crank shaft (aka eccentric shaft in a rotary engine)
Quote from: R-inge on November 25, 2008, 04:51:23 PM
So... that gear multiplies output speed by 3X going out to the flywheel? RPM would mean flywheel speed in this case then right?
Actually, now that I think about it, there isn't a reduction between the crank and the ouput. The "crank" (mainshaft) and the output spin at the same speed (actually, I think they're usually the same shaft). The rotor itself spins at 1/3 the rate of the mainshaft. It's due to a sort of planetary phasing gear between the rotor and the mainshaft. It's a little hard to explain in words.
And yes, engine RPM is measured at the output.
Quote from: 565 on November 25, 2008, 04:14:09 PM
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=136547?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1.*
Edmunds test.
Sadly it doesn't seem that much faster yet, but it definitely grips alot better .97G and stops alot better 101 ft 60-0.
0-60 time is the same as they got with the Nismo Z, but the quarter mile time is .2 second faster so perhaps they were just easy on the launch since it was a preproduction car. Considering edmunds is normally pretty slow, the mags will probably manage sub-5 0-60 times. Damn impressive considering this seems to be the whole package.
Quote from: 565 on November 25, 2008, 04:14:09 PM
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=136547?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1.*
Edmunds test.
Sadly it doesn't seem that much faster yet, but it definitely grips alot better .97G and stops alot better 101 ft 60-0.
Sounds faster w/13.4 sec 1/4 mile time. And just wait till the other mags get their hands on one.
Sounds like the auto rev match works fantastic.
4.9s to 60 with rollout (which all of the major mags use except Edmunds). I don't recall any of the major mags cracking 5 seconds with a 350Z before.
Okay so Motortrend got 4.7 0-60 13.3 @ 105.7
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0902_2009_nissan_370z_first_test/index.html
Looking a bit better.
.99 G in the corners. 106ft 60-0 Stopping.
One thing is for sure, the new Z's got incredible tire grip.
I can see it doing very well on C&D's lightning lap challenge (considering the old 350Z still holds the record for it's class).
13.3 sec 1/4 mi for $30k is quite a deal.
From the sounds of it is still quite an unrefined beast. I think I'd spend the extra 10% and get the far, far more refined G37C.
The C&D review is in.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/japanese_performance/2009_nissan_370z_road_test/(page)/1
They seemed to like it as well. 106mph trap.
I'm beginning to really like the looks.
Any spy shots on the convertible?
So is this going to drop 350Z used prices or what?
Is this 911 devouring material yet?
Quote from: the Teuton on December 01, 2008, 08:56:16 PM
Is this 911 devouring material yet?
That might be a bit of a stretch, but has potential as a Cayman devourer.
I'll have to see it in person. The 350Z has a better stance, while this one has really stout and stubby proportions. I don't like it.
370Z vs Camaro V6 vs Genesis V6 vs Camry V6
who will win?
I like the profile of the car, but the headlights and taillights still look funky...
I didn't like the Maxima when I saw it in person... hopefully I'll like this one.
This car looks like it will look great in person...
And it is fast as hell...
I am a huge fan.
Quote from: NACar on December 01, 2008, 09:20:51 PM
370Z vs Camaro V6 vs Genesis V6 vs Camry V6
who will win?
Well the camry is FWD so throw that out, the camaro is underpowered for its porky curb weight so chuck that in the trash(if they ever hit the streets).
That leaves the Genesis and 370, the genesis will have higher weight and less HP. Also given nissan's decades of sports car building and the genesis being hyundai's first solid attempt i'd give the knod to the 370. Or where you just joking?
Quote from: Raza on December 01, 2008, 08:52:32 PM
I'm beginning to really like the looks.
Any spy shots on the convertible?
So is this going to drop 350Z used prices or what?
I suspect that 350Z values will actually go up significantly as any used car does when a new generation arrives.
:rolleyes:
This isn't a 930 raza, of course the 350 values will go down.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 02, 2008, 07:17:10 PM
I suspect that 350Z values will actually go up significantly as any used car does when a new generation arrives.
:rolleyes:
This isn't a 930 raza, of course the 350 values will go down.
Some new car introductions do cause a slight increase in value of the used models. Like every current BMW on sale today caused an immediate increase in value in previous BMW models. Some new car introductions cause precipitous drops in used car values as well, like the 997's killing of 996 prices. But then again, the 996 drove up prices of the 993.
Quote from: Raza on December 02, 2008, 07:21:30 PM
Some new car introductions do cause a slight increase in value of the used models. Like every current BMW on sale today caused an immediate increase in value in previous BMW models. Some new car introductions cause precipitous drops in used car values as well, like the 997's killing of 996 prices. But then again, the 996 drove up prices of the 993.
news to me that bmw's go up when new models come out, unless you are talking about low volume specialty models like the M cars.
911's, M Cars and other lower volume enthusiasts cars aside a new model almost always lowers the value of a previous generation.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 02, 2008, 07:23:54 PM
news to me that bmw's go up when new models come out, unless you are talking about low volume specialty models like the M cars.
911's, M Cars and other lower volume enthusiasts cars aside a new model almost always lowers the value of a previous generation.
I pay attention to these things. I'm funemployed, remember?
Quote from: Raza on December 02, 2008, 07:29:21 PM
I pay attention to these things. I'm funemployed, remember?
By funemployed you mean unemployed?
Do you wear cargo pants have scrufy hair and a goatee, do you enjoy microbrews and mountain biking in colorado?
Do these things come with the car or are they extra?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 02, 2008, 07:31:44 PM
By funemployed you mean unemployed?
Do you wear cargo pants have scrufy hair and a goatee, do you enjoy microbrews and mountain biking in colorado?
Do these things come with the car or are they extra?
I don't wear cargo pants, I just got a haircut, I hate bicycles, but I do like microbrews.
And yes, I mean unemployed. But I enjoy it. Or at least I will until I run out of money!
Quote from: Raza on December 02, 2008, 07:38:40 PM
I don't wear cargo pants, I just got a haircut, I hate bicycles, but I do like microbrews.
And yes, I mean unemployed. But I enjoy it. Or at least I will until I run out of money!
Well you could whore yourself out to 50 girls for a thousand dollars, or 1000 fat girls for 50 dollars.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 02, 2008, 07:41:29 PM
Well you could whore yourself out to 50 girls for a thousand dollars, or 1000 fat girls for 50 dollars.
I think that's the other way around.
But it's a viable plan nonetheless.
Quote from: Raza on December 02, 2008, 07:42:29 PM
I think that's the other way around.
But it's a viable plan nonetheless.
Fat girls have no money, cakes and pies and such.
Tiff drives the 370Z:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyH5ZyuVWbk&
Neat. I love the setting too, Reims/Champagne is a beautiful region.
I really want to try that S-mode for myself!
Quote from: Raza link=topic=16418.msg922088#msg922088 date=1226622258
That's pretty much where I am right now.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on December 02, 2008, 07:43:12 PM
Fat girls have no money, cakes and pies and such.
Yes, but skinny girls can get it for free anytime they want it, 'cause every guy is offering it. ;)