Quote from: Tave on April 13, 2010, 02:29:02 PM
One final point: the engine in the RS4 is sourced from the R8 which, surprise surprise, comes with a 6spd manual standard.

... because the R8 did not come with DSG.  The 7 speed unit made to fit a longitudinal engines didn't arrive until last year with the S4.  The only other option in sthe Rtronic automated manual which is not that great.

Again the "the real world" with the RS5, I'm going to bet the thing does 70mph in 2nd gear so if you really want to have "spirited driving" on twisty roads your never going to get out of 2nd gear anyway 

Quote from: r0tor on April 13, 2010, 02:20:40 PM
I still find some people's fascination with a 3rd pedal halarious.... real joyful driving is about so much more then the clutch.  Hell, when I'm out on a joy ride through some back roads my car is left in 2nd gear and I just work the rev range....

It's not just about the pedal...

Quote from: Raza  on April 13, 2010, 02:32:42 PM
It's not just about the pedal...

i know, its about your ego...

Quote from: r0tor on April 13, 2010, 02:36:30 PM
i know, its about your ego...

Sadly, no.  If you don't get it, you won't.  Sorry.

Quote from: r0tor on April 13, 2010, 02:31:47 PM
... because the R8 did not come with DSG.  The 7 speed unit made to fit a longitudinal engines didn't arrive until last year with the S4.  The only other option in sthe Rtronic automated manual which is not that great.

Again the "the real world" with the RS5, I'm going to bet the thing does 70mph in 2nd gear so if you really want to have "spirited driving" on twisty roads your never going to get out of 2nd gear anyway 

Hey, I'm not arguing that. I'm simply questioning Coug's assertion that the engine would "profoundly suffer" if paired to a manual transmission.

Quote from: r0tor on April 13, 2010, 02:36:30 PM
i know, its about your ego...

It says it right below the coke addict in his avatar. He's a "Purist", basically it's like a "Nudist", but in car form.

I also don't pretend that I live on Laguna Seca or the Nurburgring like the wanna-be racers who sit there exclaiming "DSG SAVES U .000002 SEKUNDZ!"

Who the fuck cares?

Quote from: r0tor on April 13, 2010, 02:20:40 PM
I still find some people's fascination with a 3rd pedal halarious.... real joyful driving is about so much more then the clutch.  Hell, when I'm out on a joy ride through some back roads my car is left in 2nd gear and I just work the rev range....

To each his own. The day Mazda stops putting one in an RX or MX car will be the day they lose me. Or lose me from buying anything new they bring out.

Quote from: Raza  link=topic=21764.msg1307096#msg1307096 date=1271191671
I also don't pretend that I live on Laguna Seca or the Nurburgring like the wanna-be racers who sit there exclaiming "DSG SAVES U .000002 SEKUNDZ!"

Who the fuck cares?

Ok Mr. Clarkson. 

Quote from: Tave on April 13, 2010, 01:54:51 PM
Interesting to note that in the video, the manettino is dialed to "race," which you're not even supposed to use on the street.

Quote from: Galaxy on April 13, 2010, 02:11:30 PM
That does sound suspiciously like an F1 engine. One can also hear that harsh scratching sound that sounds like the old F1 traction control. Plus something is bothering me about the way that builds speed. By my count it did 200-290 in like 4 seconds...

The video is labeled F458 but it's the F430 Scuderia (foretold by the speedo).

Inclined to agree with you Raza......... I've yet to experience the Damn Silly Gearbox, which seems to have so enthralled the motoring press. Those who have seem rather less convinced. 

Having got used to driving an automatic as there was no choice with my S6, I have to say that I really enjoyed the fun of changing gears myself in the Alfa Brera that I had for the weekend. I took it to the Brecon Beacons, in mid Wales, so got plenty of opportunity to use the gearbox.

As to the RS5.......... yes, please. It had a fantastic write up for the usually dismissive Autocar who really do not like Audi much, for all the oft cited reasons. But they loved this car, and so do I. Mind you, at a predicted ?57,000 in the UK before options, it will not be cheap.

Quote from: GoCougs on April 13, 2010, 02:51:32 PM
The video is labeled F458 but it's the F430 Scuderia (foretold by the speedo).

It is indeed a 430 Scuderia, but the video you linked has been tampered with. I found the original. They must of sped up the video or something. Just thought you would like to know. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMo3pwyDNns&feature=related

Quote from: Tave on April 13, 2010, 02:45:29 PM
Hey, I'm not arguing that. I'm simply questioning Coug's assertion that the engine would "profoundly suffer" if paired to a manual transmission.

Be careful there Tave with your Internetry - "profoundly suffer" was reserved for "the engine" of the F430 in the video, not the RS5.

Quote from: r0tor on April 13, 2010, 02:20:40 PM
I still find some people's fascination with a 3rd pedal halarious.... real joyful driving is about so much more then the clutch.  Hell, when I'm out on a joy ride through some back roads my car is left in 2nd gear and I just work the rev range....

It's misplaced IMO. I can understand if it's a slush box vs. M/T in some cars, but M/Ts came into being because they were cheap, and have mostly been displaced because A/T technology eventually became cheap and robust too, and by extension why M/T they are so preciously rare today. They will relatively soon be replaced by DSGs as that technology becomes cheaper as well.

Quote from: Colin on April 13, 2010, 02:52:49 PM
Inclined to agree with you Raza......... I've yet to experience the Damn Silly Gearbox, which seems to have so enthralled the motoring press. Those who have seem rather less convinced. 

The British press can't seem to make up their mind about it.  In one issue of Evo, they state, incongruously, that the DSG could never give you the level of involvement of a real manual transmission, and then a few pages later state that going DSG only for the 458 was "the right decision".

Personally, I don't care how quickly they shift, they're just a better automatic and not a real manual replacement.

Quote from: GoCougs on April 13, 2010, 02:59:29 PM
Be careful there Tave with your Internetry - "profoundly suffer" was reserved for "the engine" of the F430 in the video, not the RS5.

Quote from: GoCougs on April 12, 2010, 10:10:02 PM
You're going to need lightening quick shifts and seven speeds to take full advantage of such a high-strung motor. This car would suffer with a traditional 6sp M/T.

You're resting your "internetry" on an adverb?

Quote from: GoCougs on April 13, 2010, 02:51:32 PM
The video is labeled F458 but it's the F430 Scuderia (foretold by the speedo).

That just makes it more suspicious. A Bugatti Veyron takes 9 seconds to gov from 200-300km/h. This does it in 4?

I am pretty certain now that the sound is from an F1 V10 with traction control. Go to  50 seconds into the video, that scratching is the F1 traction control.

Road & Track did a "Paddle Shift Manual vs. Manual Shift" comparison using the same cars with both trannies.  This is their conclusion:


If the question, however, is how much enjoyment can be had with a paddle-shift transmission, then the argument can become convoluted. Accelerating the quickest and recording the fastest lap time for the ultimate adrenaline rush? Paddle shift wins. Want to feel more accomplished and connected with the car as you perform heel-toe downshifts? Manual wins. A pair of Lamborghini Gallardos we had recently came with both types of transmission. For the street, I?d pick the Gallardo with the gated shifter so I can be part of the process of making the car accelerate, brake and corner and at the same time hear the clicks from the metal shift gate as I try to match the engine speed and gear. For the track, give me the paddle shift, because I want to go as fast as possible.

So, in fact, there isn?t a debate. It?s all about what you are looking for and for what purpose.

Quote from: Raza  on April 13, 2010, 02:47:51 PM
I also don't pretend that I live on Laguna Seca or the Nurburgring like the wanna-be racers who sit there exclaiming "DSG SAVES U .000002 SEKUNDZ!"

Who the fuck cares?

who needs to shift when having fun on real world roads????

I'd take one, with the DSG please.

There's an Evo that I see on a regular basis on the way to work which I suspect has a DSG.  He just charges ahead fluidly without the hesitation indicative of a shift.  I imagine it would make any care more entertaining in a straight line.

Quote from: R-inge on April 13, 2010, 05:51:51 PM
I'd take one, with the DSG please.

There's an Evo that I see on a regular basis on the way to work which I suspect has a DSG.  He just charges ahead fluidly without the hesitation indicative of a shift.  I imagine it would make any care more entertaining in a straight line.

Yeah, except his car weighs 3,700 lbs. and it's probably slower than your car.

Quote from: r0tor on April 13, 2010, 04:43:30 PM
who needs to shift when having fun on real world roads????

raising my hand 

You drive a car with one of the better shifters out there. You don't enjoy that?
It's even better in and MX-5 and you can really throw the gears around in them because they have no power so you've got to work for everything.

There were some backroads in both Connecticut and here in Pa. last weekend that made me thank Jesus (even though he's not the son of god) that I have a 5-speed car.

I can't imagine they'd be as fun with flappy paddles.

I only shift when I take my car to the race track. On the road, I just leave it in whatever gear it's in, and it goes.

That 458 video was hopelessly fake. That's not even a 458 cluster.

The driving force behind the death of the manual is the market. 99.8% of people don't need to shift gears manually to enjoy driving (myself included). A well sorted auto box can be fun too.

Yes, it appears the video has been doctored (and it was an F430). It's great on editing WRT downshifts. Not sure why someone would put the effort into it...

Quote from: Minpin on April 13, 2010, 02:57:42 PM
It is indeed a 430 Scuderia, but the video you linked has been tampered with. I found the original. They must of sped up the video or something. Just thought you would like to know. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMo3pwyDNns&feature=related

I was gonna say...there's no f'cking way that 4,000 RPM sounds the way it did in that video Cougs posted.

Quote from: r0tor on April 13, 2010, 04:43:30 PM
who needs to shift when having fun on real world roads????

I definitely prefer it.  And when I'm putting money into something, what I want is king.

Quote from: R-inge on April 13, 2010, 05:51:51 PM
I'd take one, with the DSG please.

There's an Evo that I see on a regular basis on the way to work which I suspect has a DSG.  He just charges ahead fluidly without the hesitation indicative of a shift.  I imagine it would make any care more entertaining in a straight line.

I've driven a DSG Lancer.  It's like driving a video game in a straight line.  Keep your foot on the gas, push button, car shifts.  Same as a Tiptronic/Manumatic slushbox except the shifts are quicker and crisper.  It's a fantastic replacement for an automatic and definitely my choice for a track car, but I didn't find it swaying me away from a traditional stickshift for flogging down a back road at less than flat out.  All in all, the driver interface felt like any other automatic.  You put your foot on the brake, grab the shifter and slide it into D (like any other automatic).  Let off the brake when in gear and the car creeps, like any other automatic.  To shift manually, slide the console shifter sideways into the manual gate, like most any manumatic.  It might have been a little more enjoyable to me if the shifter or the paddles had a firmer, more mechanical-feeling detent (more akin to the sequential shifter on a motorbike with a positive thunk in the shifter when you select the next gear) instead of feeling like something from an arcade game.  Then you at least might kind of feel like you're actually mechanically connected to the transmission rather than pushing buttons to signal some magical little elf hiding under the hood to change gears for you.

I don't understand why this thread got so complicated.

DSG's shift faster, and produce better lap times than traditional manuals.  For those of us who race their DD on weekends, I can see why a DSG would be preferable to a manual.

Some people find joy in driving a stick.  Some people don't.  It's really that simple.  I've driven both DSG 911's and 6-speed ones, and I enjoined the manual one more.  If buyer X finds the inverse to be true, than good for him. 

Everyone is making this far more complicated than it should be.