First Drive: 2007 Mercedes-Benz S500

Started by BMWDave, October 06, 2005, 01:53:29 PM

BMWDave

QuoteTrue, though the VWs assembled in Germany (the Passat and Touraeg) aren't nearly as bad as the ones assembled in Mexico (the Golf and Jetta). Actually, the Passat Wagon is supposed to be the most reliable VW (it is built at a different location from the sedan).
German workmanship is a whole hell of a lot better than Mexican workmanship.  Hell, I think I would rather have my car built in Germany than any other place in the world.  

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

TBR

I think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.

BMWDave

QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

TBR

That is because of the engineering, not how they are assembled (or at least I would think that would be the case).

BMWDave

QuoteThat is because of the engineering, not how they are assembled (or at least I would think that would be the case).
Its not only the engineering, because if it was, then cars engineered in Germany but built in Mexico would be the same as cars built in Germany.  But theyre not.  

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

TBR

VWs built in Mexico just aren't put together right, a problem Japanese built ones wouldn't have.  

BMWDave

QuoteVWs built in Mexico just aren't put together right, a problem Japanese built ones wouldn't have.
So it does matter where they are built...they have to be put together right ;)  

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

TBR

Yes, and Japan can put cars together quite well.  

BMWDave

QuoteYes, and Japan can put cars together quite well.
Of course they can, I would just prefer German Craftsmanship to Japanese craftsmanship.   ;)  

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

Raghavan

Quote
QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.
Yes, they are very solid till they're old and they start feelign like a rust bucket and feels like they're going to fall apart on you. Japanese cars, on the other hand, just keep truckin. :praise:  

BMWDave

Quote
Quote
QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.
Yes, they are very solid till they're old and they start feelign like a rust bucket and feels like they're going to fall apart on you. Japanese cars, on the other hand, just keep truckin. :praise:
Japanese cars have a reputation for rusting out (at least older ones), not German cars ;)  

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

Raghavan

Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.
Yes, they are very solid till they're old and they start feelign like a rust bucket and feels like they're going to fall apart on you. Japanese cars, on the other hand, just keep truckin. :praise:
Japanese cars have a reputation for rusting out (at least older ones), not German cars ;)
Well, i've mixed them up, but the German cars feel like they'll fall apart on you very quickly. <_<
I've been in 3 E30 3ers from the 80's, and all of them are rattly, wobbly. My dad's '86 Corolla, OTOH, was rock solid till its final days. :praise:  

BMWDave

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.
Yes, they are very solid till they're old and they start feelign like a rust bucket and feels like they're going to fall apart on you. Japanese cars, on the other hand, just keep truckin. :praise:
Japanese cars have a reputation for rusting out (at least older ones), not German cars ;)
Well, i've mixed them up, but the German cars feel like they'll fall apart on you very quickly. <_<
I've been in 3 E30 3ers from the 80's, and all of them are rattly, wobbly. My dad's '86 Corolla, OTOH, was rock solid till its final days. :praise:
I dont know, perhaps those cars were abused.  I have an E30 3er, and while I didnt drive it all that recently, it still feels rock solid.  Its known, however, that Japanese cars, (older ones) were extremely rust prone and tinny.  German cars have a reputation of solidity.

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

Raghavan

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.
Yes, they are very solid till they're old and they start feelign like a rust bucket and feels like they're going to fall apart on you. Japanese cars, on the other hand, just keep truckin. :praise:
Japanese cars have a reputation for rusting out (at least older ones), not German cars ;)
Well, i've mixed them up, but the German cars feel like they'll fall apart on you very quickly. <_<
I've been in 3 E30 3ers from the 80's, and all of them are rattly, wobbly. My dad's '86 Corolla, OTOH, was rock solid till its final days. :praise:
I dont know, perhaps those cars were abused.  I have an E30 3er, and while I didnt drive it all that recently, it still feels rock solid.  Its known, however, that Japanese cars, (older ones) were extremely rust prone and tinny.  German cars have a reputation of solidity.
I don't think so. My friend is a detail nut and washes it every week, and keeps it immaculately. My dad, however, hauled bricks, didn't change oil, maintain, or do anything to the Corolla, and it was still solid till its tranny blew. :(  

BMWDave

#44
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.
Yes, they are very solid till they're old and they start feelign like a rust bucket and feels like they're going to fall apart on you. Japanese cars, on the other hand, just keep truckin. :praise:
Japanese cars have a reputation for rusting out (at least older ones), not German cars ;)
Well, i've mixed them up, but the German cars feel like they'll fall apart on you very quickly. <_<
I've been in 3 E30 3ers from the 80's, and all of them are rattly, wobbly. My dad's '86 Corolla, OTOH, was rock solid till its final days. :praise:
I dont know, perhaps those cars were abused.  I have an E30 3er, and while I didnt drive it all that recently, it still feels rock solid.  Its known, however, that Japanese cars, (older ones) were extremely rust prone and tinny.  German cars have a reputation of solidity.
I don't think so. My friend is a detail nut and washes it every week, and keeps it immaculately. My dad, however, hauled bricks, didn't change oil, maintain, or do anything to the Corolla, and it was still solid till its tranny blew. :(
My E30 still feels rock solid, and felt that way when it was driven as a 17 year old car...perhaps you are a tad biased towards your trueno  ;) :D

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

Raghavan

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.
Yes, they are very solid till they're old and they start feelign like a rust bucket and feels like they're going to fall apart on you. Japanese cars, on the other hand, just keep truckin. :praise:
Japanese cars have a reputation for rusting out (at least older ones), not German cars ;)
Well, i've mixed them up, but the German cars feel like they'll fall apart on you very quickly. <_<
I've been in 3 E30 3ers from the 80's, and all of them are rattly, wobbly. My dad's '86 Corolla, OTOH, was rock solid till its final days. :praise:
I dont know, perhaps those cars were abused.  I have an E30 3er, and while I didnt drive it all that recently, it still feels rock solid.  Its known, however, that Japanese cars, (older ones) were extremely rust prone and tinny.  German cars have a reputation of solidity.
I don't think so. My friend is a detail nut and washes it every week, and keeps it immaculately. My dad, however, hauled bricks, didn't change oil, maintain, or do anything to the Corolla, and it was still solid till its tranny blew. :(
My E30 still feels rock solid, and felt that way when it was driven as a 17 year old car...perhaps you are a tad biased towards your trueno  ;) :D
Maybe because your car has 40,000 miles on it, and you're a tad biased towards German cars. ;)  

BMWDave

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.
Yes, they are very solid till they're old and they start feelign like a rust bucket and feels like they're going to fall apart on you. Japanese cars, on the other hand, just keep truckin. :praise:
Japanese cars have a reputation for rusting out (at least older ones), not German cars ;)
Well, i've mixed them up, but the German cars feel like they'll fall apart on you very quickly. <_<
I've been in 3 E30 3ers from the 80's, and all of them are rattly, wobbly. My dad's '86 Corolla, OTOH, was rock solid till its final days. :praise:
I dont know, perhaps those cars were abused.  I have an E30 3er, and while I didnt drive it all that recently, it still feels rock solid.  Its known, however, that Japanese cars, (older ones) were extremely rust prone and tinny.  German cars have a reputation of solidity.
I don't think so. My friend is a detail nut and washes it every week, and keeps it immaculately. My dad, however, hauled bricks, didn't change oil, maintain, or do anything to the Corolla, and it was still solid till its tranny blew. :(
My E30 still feels rock solid, and felt that way when it was driven as a 17 year old car...perhaps you are a tad biased towards your trueno  ;) :D
Maybe because your car has 40,000 miles on it, and you're a tad biased towards German cars. ;)
Thats another thing, how many miles did the car have?  And you can never be sure it wasnt abused, just because he washes it once in a while.

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

Raghavan

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteI think I would rather have a car engineered in Germany and built in Japan.
There is no doubt that Japan's electronics are the best in the world.  But there is just an essence of solidity to cars that BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche build in Germany.  Japanese built cars have a very good fit and finish level, but they arent as solid as German built cars.
Yes, they are very solid till they're old and they start feelign like a rust bucket and feels like they're going to fall apart on you. Japanese cars, on the other hand, just keep truckin. :praise:
Japanese cars have a reputation for rusting out (at least older ones), not German cars ;)
Well, i've mixed them up, but the German cars feel like they'll fall apart on you very quickly. <_<
I've been in 3 E30 3ers from the 80's, and all of them are rattly, wobbly. My dad's '86 Corolla, OTOH, was rock solid till its final days. :praise:
I dont know, perhaps those cars were abused.  I have an E30 3er, and while I didnt drive it all that recently, it still feels rock solid.  Its known, however, that Japanese cars, (older ones) were extremely rust prone and tinny.  German cars have a reputation of solidity.
I don't think so. My friend is a detail nut and washes it every week, and keeps it immaculately. My dad, however, hauled bricks, didn't change oil, maintain, or do anything to the Corolla, and it was still solid till its tranny blew. :(
My E30 still feels rock solid, and felt that way when it was driven as a 17 year old car...perhaps you are a tad biased towards your trueno  ;) :D
Maybe because your car has 40,000 miles on it, and you're a tad biased towards German cars. ;)
Thats another thing, how many miles did the car have?  And you can never be sure it wasnt abused, just because he washes it once in a while.
I think it has 120,000 miles on it. Not too much actually.

thewizard16

They both build solid cars. Happy? :P  (generalization) Older german cars are built like tanks and have some reliability issues, but are tanks nonetheless. (generalization) Japanese cars are put together very well, and hard to kill.
92 Camry XLE V6(Murdered)
99 ES 300 (Sold)
2008 Volkswagen Passat(Did not survive the winter)
2015 Lexus GS350 F-Sport
(Murdered)
-2023 Lexus GX460
-2023 Ford F150 Lightning Platinum


Quote from: Raza  link=topic=27909.msg1787179#msg1787179 date=1349117110You're my age.  We're getting old.  Plus, now that you're married, your life expectancy has gone way down, since you're more likely to be poisoned by your wife.

BMWDave

QuoteThey both build solid cars. Happy? :P  (generalization) Older german cars are built like tanks and have some reliability issues, but are tanks nonetheless. (generalization) Japanese cars are put together very well, and hard to kill.
Older Japanese cars were rust buckets, and had very tinny metal.  I believe 280z said that metal on his car is so thin that "wind can bend it".  Just a metaphor really.  

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

Raghavan

Quote
QuoteThey both build solid cars. Happy? :P  (generalization) Older german cars are built like tanks and have some reliability issues, but are tanks nonetheless. (generalization) Japanese cars are put together very well, and hard to kill.
Older Japanese cars were rust buckets, and had very tinny metal.  I believe 280z said that metal on his car is so thin that "wind can bend it".  Just a metaphor really.
You mustn't have seen the Toyota HIlux video in Top Gear then...

BMWDave

Quote
Quote
QuoteThey both build solid cars. Happy? :P? (generalization) Older german cars are built like tanks and have some reliability issues, but are tanks nonetheless. (generalization) Japanese cars are put together very well, and hard to kill.
Older Japanese cars were rust buckets, and had very tinny metal.  I believe 280z said that metal on his car is so thin that "wind can bend it".  Just a metaphor really.
You mustn't have seen the Toyota HIlux video in Top Gear then...
I did. :D  That car is very reliable mechanically...the metal on the car got dented like crazy.  

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

Raghavan

Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteThey both build solid cars. Happy? :P? (generalization) Older german cars are built like tanks and have some reliability issues, but are tanks nonetheless. (generalization) Japanese cars are put together very well, and hard to kill.
Older Japanese cars were rust buckets, and had very tinny metal.  I believe 280z said that metal on his car is so thin that "wind can bend it".  Just a metaphor really.
You mustn't have seen the Toyota HIlux video in Top Gear then...
I did. :D  That car is very reliable mechanically...the metal on the car got dented like crazy.
Ok, here's a comprimise... Japanese cars are built tinny, but are excellently reliable mechanically. German cars are built like tanks, but aren't so reliable...

BMWDave

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteThey both build solid cars. Happy? :P? (generalization) Older german cars are built like tanks and have some reliability issues, but are tanks nonetheless. (generalization) Japanese cars are put together very well, and hard to kill.
Older Japanese cars were rust buckets, and had very tinny metal.  I believe 280z said that metal on his car is so thin that "wind can bend it".  Just a metaphor really.
You mustn't have seen the Toyota HIlux video in Top Gear then...
I did. :D  That car is very reliable mechanically...the metal on the car got dented like crazy.
Ok, here's a comprimise... Japanese cars are built tinny, but are excellently reliable mechanically. German cars are built like tanks, but aren't so reliable...
I fully agree with that.  Its not like German cars are Yugos, but they certainly arent the most reliable cars.

2007 Honda S2000
OEM Hardtop, Rick's Ti Shift Knob, 17" Volk LE37ts coming soon...

Raghavan

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteThey both build solid cars. Happy? :P? (generalization) Older german cars are built like tanks and have some reliability issues, but are tanks nonetheless. (generalization) Japanese cars are put together very well, and hard to kill.
Older Japanese cars were rust buckets, and had very tinny metal.  I believe 280z said that metal on his car is so thin that "wind can bend it".  Just a metaphor really.
You mustn't have seen the Toyota HIlux video in Top Gear then...
I did. :D  That car is very reliable mechanically...the metal on the car got dented like crazy.
Ok, here's a comprimise... Japanese cars are built tinny, but are excellently reliable mechanically. German cars are built like tanks, but aren't so reliable...
I fully agree with that.  Its not like German cars are Yugos, but they certainly arent the most reliable cars.
Of course, there are exceptions to both of those...

thewizard16

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
QuoteThey both build solid cars. Happy? :P? (generalization) Older german cars are built like tanks and have some reliability issues, but are tanks nonetheless. (generalization) Japanese cars are put together very well, and hard to kill.
Older Japanese cars were rust buckets, and had very tinny metal.  I believe 280z said that metal on his car is so thin that "wind can bend it".  Just a metaphor really.
You mustn't have seen the Toyota HIlux video in Top Gear then...
I did. :D  That car is very reliable mechanically...the metal on the car got dented like crazy.
Ok, here's a comprimise... Japanese cars are built tinny, but are excellently reliable mechanically. German cars are built like tanks, but aren't so reliable...
The Japanese cars, for the most part are built well. I'm not talking about sheetmetal so much, though the 2000 Camry sat through a rather severe hailstorm with no dents. The same storm (they were parked next to each other) put a nearly fist sized dent in the a-pillar of the Dakota, and small dents all over the hood. However, the 92 Camry dents rather easily. When it comes to new cars, I'm sure the German cars and Japanese cars both dent rather easily. Older vehicles though, it certainly does seem that (Mercedes particularly... BMW not so much) the german cars are more resistant to exterior damage.
92 Camry XLE V6(Murdered)
99 ES 300 (Sold)
2008 Volkswagen Passat(Did not survive the winter)
2015 Lexus GS350 F-Sport
(Murdered)
-2023 Lexus GX460
-2023 Ford F150 Lightning Platinum


Quote from: Raza  link=topic=27909.msg1787179#msg1787179 date=1349117110You're my age.  We're getting old.  Plus, now that you're married, your life expectancy has gone way down, since you're more likely to be poisoned by your wife.

TBR

Our Subaru's sheet metal seems to be credit card thin, you can get it to flex without much pressure at all while I can't get the sheetmetal on the Durango to flex with all of my body weight on it (admittedly not much, but still..)

Raghavan

You guys should see Indian cars. My cousin sat on a Ford Ikon, and the hood flex was astounding!

thewizard16

QuoteOur Subaru's sheet metal seems to be credit card thin, you can get it to flex without much pressure at all while I can't get the sheetmetal on the Durango to flex with all of my body weight on it (admittedly not much, but still..)
That's good because Dakota (don't know about the brand new ones) sheetmetal, whether it be 94, 97, or 00 (the years I'm familiar with) is amazingly easy to dent.  
92 Camry XLE V6(Murdered)
99 ES 300 (Sold)
2008 Volkswagen Passat(Did not survive the winter)
2015 Lexus GS350 F-Sport
(Murdered)
-2023 Lexus GX460
-2023 Ford F150 Lightning Platinum


Quote from: Raza  link=topic=27909.msg1787179#msg1787179 date=1349117110You're my age.  We're getting old.  Plus, now that you're married, your life expectancy has gone way down, since you're more likely to be poisoned by your wife.

thewizard16

QuoteYou guys should see Indian cars. My cousin sat on a Ford Ikon, and the hood flex was astounding!
I HATE it when people sit on hoods. No one sits on the hood of my cars, because it probably would dent. And I'd be very unhappy. Hoods are not designed to support someone's body weight, they're designed to cover and engine, stay latched down, and hopefully not dent in a hailstorm. You just shouldn't sit on the hood. Period.  
92 Camry XLE V6(Murdered)
99 ES 300 (Sold)
2008 Volkswagen Passat(Did not survive the winter)
2015 Lexus GS350 F-Sport
(Murdered)
-2023 Lexus GX460
-2023 Ford F150 Lightning Platinum


Quote from: Raza  link=topic=27909.msg1787179#msg1787179 date=1349117110You're my age.  We're getting old.  Plus, now that you're married, your life expectancy has gone way down, since you're more likely to be poisoned by your wife.