Gaper Block
Onlooker Delay
Rubber Necking
..call it what you will.

GA State Patrol is assigned to speed up traffic on a major Atlanta freeway by moving stalls & accidents out of lanes quicker than did the county cops. So the troopers descend, with the result that every half mile they pull someone over for a violation. So every half mile there is a Christmas tree of million-candlepower blue LEDs, which everyone stops to take a look at. Outcome is that traffic moves ever slower.

Maybe more discreet light displays would allow them to continue revenue gathering operations in safety without clogging up the roads.

Cop lights are fucking blinding at night. I hate them.

Quote from: Rupert on November 24, 2013, 05:08:33 PM
Cop lights are fucking blinding at night. I hate them.

I've argued that tyhey've gone past the point of being safe, and they're now actually causing danger.

The selling point on these lights is usually from how far off they can be spotted by an average driver- or something to that effect.

My point is that you don't need to see the damned things 3500 yards off: you need to be able to clearly identify there's a car there while still being able to see the road around and beyond it.

I've also noticed the trend, at least around here, that the smaller the department is, the more lights are generally on their cars, and the more blinky they are.

Yeah, they give you lots of time to practice squinting and looking away before you get there.

The LED ones are really brutal.

Quote from: Rupert on November 24, 2013, 05:08:33 PM
Cop lights are fucking blinding at night. I hate them.

That really is not the problem, the problem is that even with the Michigan State Police with its one beacon light on top people still rubber neck. 

As for the light brightness issue:
A few years ago a person (drunk mind you) crashed into the back of a LE car in Michigan, then sued the police department because the cars lights could not be seen at more than 3500 feet.

The drunk won several million.

That resulted in the development of LED lightbars; brighter will prevent multi-million dollar lawsuits.
So far it has.

You also have to consider that these lights need to be powerful enough to cut through daylight glare and direct sunrise/sunset light situations.

And, SoundOff lighting company, based in Hudsonville, MI, is now putting night time power reducers on their lightbars.  They are auto-dimming at about 25%.   

Quote from: hounddog on November 25, 2013, 01:10:46 AM
That really is not the problem, the problem is that even with the Michigan State Police with its one beacon light on top people still rubber neck. 

As for the light brightness issue:
A few years ago a person (drunk mind you) crashed into the back of a LE car in Michigan, then sued the police department because the cars lights could not be seen at more than 3500 feet.

The drunk won several million.

That resulted in the development of LED lightbars; brighter will prevent multi-million dollar lawsuits.
So far it has.

You also have to consider that these lights need to be powerful enough to cut through daylight glare and direct sunrise/sunset light situations.

And, SoundOff lighting company, based in Hudsonville, MI, is now putting night time power reducers on their lightbars.  They are auto-dimming at about 25%.   

I'm sorry, but 3500 feet is way more than enough time to turn, oh a battleship perhaps?

Oh god, we have to turn! Get ready to turn! Wait for it, wait for it; no, not yet, but soon we'll need to turn! Oh god oh god, what if we can't turn?! Ready? Hold; hold! Almost... there... almost... there, no, no, oh god, soon! Wait for it, wait for it! NOW; QUICK; TURN!!!

Except with like six more lines like that.

And yet, they won the lawsuit.

Not everything LE does is because they want to, Risk Management drives the "industry" because lawyers terrorize elected officials with scenarios of doomsday horrors.

Quote from: hounddog on November 25, 2013, 01:10:46 AM
That really is not the problem, the problem is that even with the Michigan State Police with its one beacon light on top people still rubber neck. 
   

No, the problem I was talking about was, shockingly, the problem I was talking about. Them lights be too bright.

Quote from: Rupert on November 25, 2013, 01:18:09 AM
Oh god, we have to turn! Get ready to turn! Wait for it, wait for it; no, not yet, but soon we'll need to turn! Oh god oh god, what if we can't turn?! Ready? Hold; hold! Almost... there... almost... there, no, no, oh god, soon! Wait for it, wait for it! NOW; QUICK; TURN!!!

Except with like six more lines like that.

It is the same principle as directing traffic:
when someone is told they cannot "go that way" they panic.  Inevitably, they inundate the officer with, "What way can I go", "How do I get here/there", "But this is how I get home", etc. 

Sheep mentality runs deep in humans.  It is the nature of instinct and habit, unfortunately.

Quote from: hounddog on November 25, 2013, 01:18:22 AM
And yet, they won the lawsuit.

Not everything LE does is because they want to, Risk Management drives the "industry" because lawyers terrorize elected officials with scenarios of doomsday horrors.

So every department that runs these super bright LEDs, which is effectively all of them, does so because of law suit in Michigan? Yeah, sorry if I don't buy that.

Quote from: hounddog on November 25, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
It is the same principle as directing traffic:
when someone is told they cannot "go that way" they panic.  Inevitably, they inundate the officer with, "What way can I go", "How do I get here/there", "But this is how I get home", etc. 

Sheep mentality runs deep in humans.  It is the nature of instinct and habit, unfortunately.

What are you talking about? I'm just talking about how stupidly bright these things are.

Quote from: Rupert on November 25, 2013, 01:19:23 AM
No, the problem I was talking about was, shockingly, the problem I was talking about. Them lights be too bright.

[sigh]

Again, the problem is that even when police used low candle power rotary beacons there were still rubber-neckers resulting in many crashes.

Rubber-necking has always, continues to, will always be an issue even if police use a flashlight on the roof they spin around on a pin by hand.

Quote from: Rupert on November 25, 2013, 01:20:45 AM
So every department that runs these super bright LEDs, which is effectively all of them, does so because of law suit in Michigan? Yeah, sorry if I don't buy that.

And, tell me again why I care if you buy it?

You would argue that oranges are not really orange.

You would be surprised the number of things LE agencies do without first seeking your approval/belief.

Quote from: Rupert on November 25, 2013, 01:21:32 AM
What are you talking about? I'm just talking about how stupidly bright these things are.

Quote from: Morris Minor on November 24, 2013, 04:15:37 PM
Gaper Block
Onlooker Delay
Rubber Necking
..call it what you will.

GA State Patrol is assigned to speed up traffic on a major Atlanta freeway by moving stalls & accidents out of lanes quicker than did the county cops. So the troopers descend, with the result that every half mile they pull someone over for a violation. So every half mile there is a Christmas tree of million-candlepower blue LEDs, which everyone stops to take a look at. Outcome is that traffic moves ever slower.

Maybe more discreet light displays would allow them to continue revenue gathering operations in safety without clogging up the roads.

I am talking about this, in a more objective fashion than, "OMGodZZZZZ themZZZZ lightZZZ iZZZZ so briteZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!"

Quote from: hounddog on November 25, 2013, 01:24:18 AM
And, tell me again why I care if you buy it?

You would argue that oranges are not really orange.

You would be surprised the number of things LE agencies do without first seeking your approval/belief.

Most of the time that they're on the tree, oranges are green. Later, they'll turn brown. Some never really get very orange, but just go yellowish.

Unfortunately, rubbernecking will continue no matter if the overheads are ungodly bright or not. However, I do agree that the new LED lightbars are too bright, especially at night. This was actually a point of recent discussion around my PD. I believe that the brightness of the new LED lightbars has actually caused a safety hazard for officers because they wash out vision at night, making it especially difficult to see an officer who is out of his car. They absolutely need a low power option for night.

Quote from: bing_oh on November 25, 2013, 07:09:04 AM
Unfortunately, rubbernecking will continue no matter if the overheads are ungodly bright or not. However, I do agree that the new LED lightbars are too bright, especially at night. This was actually a point of recent discussion around my PD. I believe that the brightness of the new LED lightbars has actually caused a safety hazard for officers because they wash out vision at night, making it especially difficult to see an officer who is out of his car. They absolutely need a low power option for night.

I think a single rear-firing strobe with a narrowish beam would be enough to ensure visibility for routine stops. Drivers in lane one don't need to be put on full alert for minor stuff that's pulled over to the right of lane six.

Save the high wattage displays for major incidents.

When I heard "gaper delay" on a newscast once, I was surprised 1) that they could say that on TV and 2) that it was not what I thought it was.

Quote from: Morris Minor on November 25, 2013, 08:07:39 AMI think a single rear-firing strobe with a narrowish beam would be enough to ensure visibility for routine stops. Drivers in lane one don't need to be put on full alert for minor stuff that's pulled over to the right of lane six.

Save the high wattage displays for major incidents.

I think that might be going to the other extreme a bit too much. Having a lower power setting in current lightbars would probably serve the purpose, as there are various weather conditions where you do need to increase visibility. Not to mention, lightbars aren't just there to warn passing motorists when we're sitting behind a disabled vehicle on the shoulder. They're also used for hot runs and to make stops in the first place, where a higher intensity light will attract necessary attention. Plus, having too many settings would make operation for the LEO driving overly complicated in emergency situations...their are already a bunch of buttons of current generations lightbar control boxes.

Quote from: hounddog on November 25, 2013, 01:20:19 AM
It is the same principle as directing traffic:
when someone is told they cannot "go that way" they panic.  Inevitably, they inundate the officer with, "What way can I go", "How do I get here/there", "But this is how I get home", etc. 

Sheep mentality runs deep in humans.  It is the nature of instinct and habit, unfortunately.

Sheep mentality? How about accountability. You be on my road blocking my way.

As annoying as those lights are at night, I don't think they really pose any real risk.  The bigger issue is TV screen billboards.

LE has failed miserably in its general handling of traffic flow up and to including those ridiculously over-bright lights. First and foremost the premise must be addressed - LE had no business pulling over a drive save for a grievous traffic violation. It is extraordinarily dangerous to do so and should be reserved for effectively life-n-death issues such as suspected DUI or reckless driving.

Quote from: Raza  on November 25, 2013, 09:32:39 AM
As annoying as those lights are at night, I don't think they really pose any real risk.  The bigger issue is TV screen billboards.

Termed "Spectaculars" they were banned in Houston because of their distraction potential.

Quote from: bing_oh on November 25, 2013, 07:09:04 AM
Unfortunately, rubbernecking will continue no matter if the overheads are ungodly bright or not. However, I do agree that the new LED lightbars are too bright, especially at night. This was actually a point of recent discussion around my PD. I believe that the brightness of the new LED lightbars has actually caused a safety hazard for officers because they wash out vision at night, making it especially difficult to see an officer who is out of his car. They absolutely need a low power option for night.

What if they integrated variable brightness into the bars?  For instance, a brighter daytime mode to ensure that the lights are clearly visible during daylight, and a softer night mode where the intensity drops. Also, you could use the bright day time mode whenever you're in pursuit to make sure that, while the cop is moving and trying to catch a car or get to a scene or whatever it is, he is clearly visible. But then once they're parked, the lights lose intensity.

Quote from: MiataJohn on November 25, 2013, 11:37:58 AM
Termed "Spectaculars" they were banned in Houston because of their distraction potential.

I'm not worried about being distracted, it's how they affect night vision that bothers me.

Quote from: Raza  on November 25, 2013, 02:03:16 PM
I'm not worried about being distracted, it's how they affect night vision that bothers me.

I've more of a complaint with poorly positioned flood lights in parking lots shining in driver's eyes on adjacent roadways.

Quote from: giant_mtb on November 25, 2013, 01:53:45 PMWhat if they integrated variable brightness into the bars?  For instance, a brighter daytime mode to ensure that the lights are clearly visible during daylight, and a softer night mode where the intensity drops. Also, you could use the bright day time mode whenever you're in pursuit to make sure that, while the cop is moving and trying to catch a car or get to a scene or whatever it is, he is clearly visible. But then once they're parked, the lights lose intensity.

Some of the new LED bars have this, but it's by no means standard. It should be required for all of the new ultra-bright LED lightbars, IMO.

Quote from: GoCougs on November 25, 2013, 09:31:05 AM
Sheep mentality? How about accountability. You be on my road blocking my way.

Yes. 

Yes.  People are accountable for their actions. 

Actually, it is more the LE roadway than yours.