http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/07/chart-day-month-month-midsize-cars-posting-declining-u-s-sales/#more-1108241

We really need to update the board to copy HTML.

Quote
Chart Of The Day: Month After Month, Most Midsize Cars Are Posting Declining U.S. Sales

By Timothy Cain on July 13, 2015

Tweet



As U.S. sales of the best-selling midsize car — and best-selling car overall – declined 3% during the first-half of 2015, one would assume that an opportunity opens up for its nearest rivals. But while the Camry has fallen slightly, the Honda Accord tumbled 16% and the Nissan Altima slipped 3%.

Surely then, the second tier of candidates would make real headway? No, in the midst of this convenient moment, the Ford Fusion is down 7%. In fact, on a year-over-year basis, Fusion sales have declined in eight consecutive months.

It's not just the Fusion, of course. The Toyota Camry, Hyundai Sonata, and Kia Optima have posted four consecutive U.S. sales declines. The Volkswagen Passat and Honda Accord have both decreased in five consecutive months. After four consecutive months of decline, Nissan Altima sales increased only marginally in June.

Overall, the core group of midsize cars is off 2014's pace by 4% through the first-half of 2015. Compared with the first six months of 2013, sales are down 7%. The Camry leads its nearest rival, the Altima, by 43,785 units through six months, an even bigger lead than the 37,262-unit gap it had built up at the halfway point last year.

We've included some segment outliers in the chart in the interest of greater disclosure. U.S. sales of the aged Volkswagen CC, for example, have tumbled in each of the last 23 months.

Meanwhile, the top three midsize cars' small crossover siblings are on the rapid upswing. Toyota RAV4 sales are up 23% this year and have increased in 27 consecutive months. Nissan Rogue volume is up 36% in 2015; Rogue sales have improved in each of the last 11 months. The Honda CR-V, America's top-selling utility vehicle, is up 5% this year. CR-V sales have improved in eight of the last ten months.

Timothy Cain is the founder of GoodCarBadCar.net, which obsesses over the free and frequent publication of U.S. and Canadian auto sales figures. Follow on Twitter @goodcarbadcar and on Facebook.

Shocker: Cars that are old and/or crappy and/or about to be discontinued/redesigned haves steeply falling sales, others hold steady or improve. And the Honda Insight is not only by no stretch a midsize car, but its sales decline would be something like from 10 cars to 7.

Rumors of this class's demise are greatly exaggerated. Sales volume is still massive, and the cars that are fresh are seeing sales increases.

Are people tending to keep their cars longer now? 

Not only is the Honda Insight NOT a midsize car, it isn't even being made anymore.  Insight production ended in 2014.  The fact that Honda still has a stockpile of unsold Insights more than a year after the car stopped being made only goes to show nobody wanted it in the first place.

Speaking of cars not being built anymore, the Dodge Avenger ended production in the spring of 2014.  Could that be why sales are down 23 per cent, according to that chart?  Once again, Dodge dealers still having inventory of this rolling turd means nobody wants them.  Forget cash on the hood, you couldn't force most people to take one at gunpoint!

And anyone who has ever sat inside a Volkswagen CC will tell you it's not a midsize car either.  Front seat room isn't too bad but the rear is cramped.  I can just barely sit behind myself in the back of a CC, but it isn't exactly what I'd call comfortable.  As far as I can tell, the CC sells only to hardcore VW fans who wouldn't touch an NMS Passat.

Let's face it, crossover sales are booming because you can't buy a proper station wagon in America anymore.  Thanks, CAFE.  And sedans aren't as practical as they once were because modern designs have the base of the C-pillar and rear window stretched so far back there's barely any room left for a trunk opening.  In my boxy old Volvo 740 sedan, the trunk lid opened all the way to a vertical position and I could stand a full-sized chest of drawers upright inside the trunk.  You can't do that in any modern sedan.  Plus, with modern so-called "Minivans" now being the size of your average Greyhound bus, they are simply too big for most people.  So what is the only practical option left?  Yep, crossovers!

Manufacturers have caught on that raising the ride height of a hatchback and calling it a "Truck" means they are held to less stringent CAFE and safety standards and they can charge the consumer more for it, too.  Its all one big shell game and, as usual, the buying public ends up on the losing side of that game due to the lack of any real choice.

Quote from: Madman on July 13, 2015, 10:49:40 AM
Let's face it, crossover sales are booming because you can't buy a proper station wagon in America anymore.  Thanks, CAFE.

Lol... how did CAFE kill the station wagon? Station wagons died off long before CUVs came to be.

Plus the FWD CR-V gets the same gas mileage as the 2.4 CVT Accord, so even if CAFE allows lower gas mileage manufacturers are still pushing forward with efficiency.

And yes, the CR-V competes with the Accord... look at the engines, prices and interior dimensions.

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 13, 2015, 10:59:50 AM
Lol... how did CAFE kill the station wagon?

Here's how......

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/how-cafe-killed-compact-trucks-and-station-wagons/

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 13, 2015, 10:59:50 AM
Plus the FWD CR-V gets the same gas mileage as the 2.4 CVT Accord, so even if CAFE allows lower gas mileage manufacturers are still pushing forward with efficiency.

Of course they're still pushing efficiency.  Its just that the lower truck standards are much easier for the manufacturer to achieve.  And those fuel efficient crossovers help to offset the manufacturer's gas guzzling pickups and old-school SUVs in the truck category when you average out the numbers.

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 13, 2015, 10:59:50 AMAnd yes, the CR-V competes with the Accord... look at the engines, prices and interior dimensions.

I agree.  I never said they didn't compete.  Why buy a sedan when a CUV offers more space and practicality and gets the same fuel economy?  And since you can't buy an Accord station wagon, its not as if you have a choice.  Its crossover or nothing.

You can buy an Accord wagon. It's that fucked up thing they call a Crosstour.

Quote from: giant_mtb on July 13, 2015, 11:17:24 AM
You can buy an Accord wagon. It's that fucked up thing they call a Crosstour.

I'd rather lick a toilet bowl clean than drive a Honda Crosstour!

Quote from: Madman on July 13, 2015, 11:15:03 AM
Here's how......

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/how-cafe-killed-compact-trucks-and-station-wagons/

Lol that article is crap. "Mazda axed the 6 wagon due to poor sales", yea like every other auto manufacturer in the US market. CAFE didn't kill the station wagon... the 91 Exploder, the 96 RAV 4, the 97 CRV, the 99 RX300 did. Wagons died because of changing customer tastes, not a CAFEspiracy.

Quote from: Madman on July 13, 2015, 11:15:03 AMOf course they're still pushing efficiency.  Its just that the lower truck standards are much easier for the manufacturer to achieve.  And those fuel efficient crossovers help to offset the manufacturer's gas guzzling pickups and old-school SUVs in the truck category when you average out the numbers.

What gas guzzling trucks did Honda have to offset?

Quote from: Madman on July 13, 2015, 11:15:03 AMI agree.  I never said they didn't compete.  Why buy a sedan when a CUV offers more space and practicality and gets the same fuel economy?  And since you can't buy an Accord station wagon, its not as if you have a choice.  Its crossover or nothing.

When Accord wagons were around, nobody wanted them. If they did, Honda would have gladly kept making them. But the CR-V was just a much better fit for that market

Its bizarre. A lot of the pro station wagon folks pride themselves on being special snowflakes, but then resent the general public for not falling in line with their preferences. If everyone drove station wagons what would make u special?

Quote from: Madman on July 13, 2015, 11:20:21 AM

I'd rather lick a toilet bowl clean than drive a Honda Crosstour!

They're pretty nice to drive. I've got a customer with one. I like it.  It's not for me, but it's utility. 

I wasn't talking about Honda specifically in regards to CAFE averages, but the rules do help the makers of gas guzzling pickups.

The fuel economy numbers for the Ford Escape offsets all those F Series pickup averages.  Likewise, the Chevy Trax and Equinox helps to balance out all those Silverados, making the average fuel economy target easier to hit.  Because cars get separated into a different category, they do nothing to offset big truck fuel averages.  Which is why car makers love to sell all those jacked-up hatchbacks they tell the government are trucks.  We know they're not trucks but that's how this shell game works.

One can buy a Camry wagon too - the Venza (it's expensive as hell though)!

Quote from: Madman on July 13, 2015, 11:35:37 AM
I wasn't talking about Honda specifically in regards to CAFE averages, but the rules do help the makers of gas guzzling pickups.

The fuel economy numbers for the Ford Escape offsets all those F Series pickup averages.  Likewise, the Chevy Trax and Equinox helps to balance out all those Silverados, making the average fuel economy target easier to hit.  Because cars get separated into a different category, they do nothing to offset big truck fuel averages.  Which is why car makers love to sell all those jacked-up hatchbacks they tell the government are trucks.  We know they're not trucks but that's how this shell game works.

People want what they want, CAFE or not. Let the free market work.

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 13, 2015, 11:56:49 AM
People want what they want, CAFE or not. Let the free market work.

I agree.  I say get rid of CAFE and increase fuel taxes to encourage consumers to buy more fuel efficient cars.

I can hear Cougs' head exploding right now but this is exactly how it is done in the rest of the world and it works just fine.

Quote from: giant_mtb on July 13, 2015, 11:30:04 AM
They're pretty nice to drive. I've got a customer with one. I like it.  It's not for me, but it's utility. 

They're pretty nice to drive, yeah -- it's just the utility that's lacking due to the goofy shape.

Quote from: ifcar on July 13, 2015, 12:07:07 PM
They're pretty nice to drive, yeah -- it's just the utility that's lacking due to the goofy shape.

Yeah...it's more utility than the sedan, but not quite as much as you hope for.  For some, it's apparently just enough.

Quote from: Madman on July 13, 2015, 12:01:17 PM

I agree.  I say get rid of CAFE and increase fuel taxes to encourage consumers to buy more fuel efficient cars.

I can hear Cougs' head exploding right now but this is exactly how it is done in the rest of the world and it works just fine.

Americans love whining about gas prices, though. They even will blame/support the President over them. 

Quote from: Madman on July 13, 2015, 12:01:17 PM

I agree.  I say get rid of CAFE and increase fuel taxes to encourage consumers to buy more fuel efficient cars.

I can hear Cougs' head exploding right now but this is exactly how it is done in the rest of the world and it works just fine.

Using taxes/incentives to drive behavior = not letting the free market work. You don't agree with me. Also, that is a terrible idea that rarely works as intended.

If you want to live somewhere where the govt can force its will on the people and levy draconian "behavioral" taxes, by all means, move to Europe.

Quote from: Madman on July 13, 2015, 12:01:17 PM

I agree.  I say get rid of CAFE and increase fuel taxes to encourage consumers to buy more fuel efficient cars.

I can hear Cougs' head exploding right now but this is exactly how it is done in the rest of the world and it works just fine.

It's ridiculous. People are buying more fuel efficient cars as is and they want to increase gas tax to cover lost revenue. There's got to be a better way than holding a gun to a relatively inelastic good.

No one buys wagons in the U.S. because SUVs are better.  Especially for luxury cars.  Why would someone buy an MB E class wagon over an MB M class or G class SUV?  Its not any cheaper.  It doesn't look any better.  You think an M class or G class will have trouble negotiating a 65 mph speed limit straight interstate highway without tipping over?  Saving a few miles per gallon doesn't mean anything when gas is < 4 dollars a gallon and the price of the vehicle is 50 - 90 thousand plus.  The SUVs look brawny and their tires are bigger.  G class can seat more people.  Maybe the E class has a better ride.  M class and G class are pretty cush though.  Plus the big tires...and winter and shit...and it can go off road too.  And its got this extra button where you can put it in "low range" to really tackle tough drive ways.  And I can look down upon peasants in their regular cars.  And the extra weight makes them safer in car crashes because of physics and stuff.  And stability control makes them much less likely to roll over now.

     
 

Sky high gas taxes = less safe cars and restricted mobility. It's a nightmare.

IME European and Japanese expats, as soon as they get here, go out and buy SUVs.

Quote from: GoCougs on July 13, 2015, 10:39:01 PM
Sky high gas taxes = less safe cars and restricted mobility. It's a nightmare.

IME European and Japanese expats, as soon as they get here, go out and buy SUVs.

Whenever our CEO shows up here for meetings (he lives in Belgium) he always gets a giant SUV for a rental. 

Its not because of safety though (his company car at his office a 6-series, can't remember which engine), he just likes the oddity of driving arounf in a giant monster truck. 

Quote from: GoCougs on July 13, 2015, 10:39:01 PM

IME European and Japanese expats, as soon as they get here, go out and buy SUVs.

And, a few months later when the novelty wears off, they almost always trade it for something more sensible.

I prefer cars/ wagons. My wife resisted some getting the Odyssey but it was just too hard to cram a 16, 10, and 9yr old into the Subie backseats.

Then she drove Odyssey a few times and prefers it.      

MANY MANY people like the ease of entrance a taller vehicle offers, compared to the traditional sedan/wagon-height....

Yea.... ingress/egress & a high seating position are the main selling points. And they are legit. I want wifey to have a wagon when we have kids, but I imagine it being much easier to load 2 snotty bucket heads up at chest height rather than scrunched over.

If manufacturers want to bring sedans back to prominence for families they should make them with gullwing doors

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 14, 2015, 10:55:32 AM

If manufacturers want to bring sedans back to prominence for families they should make them with gullwing doors

GREATEST IDEA EVER!!!!!!!!   

That's how we make sedans cool again!

Quote from: SJ_GTI on July 14, 2015, 06:56:11 AM
Whenever our CEO shows up here for meetings (he lives in Belgium) he always gets a giant SUV for a rental. 

Its not because of safety though (his company car at his office a 6-series, can't remember which engine), he just likes the oddity of driving arounf in a giant monster truck. 

X5, Toureg, and believe it or not the Lexus RX, are popular for owning IME.

The Japanese LOVE renting the Tahoe. It's such an alien thing to them; esp. being able to have available parking anywhere they want to drive it; it might as well be an X-Wing.

Quote from: Madman on July 14, 2015, 07:13:17 AM

And, a few months later when the novelty wears off, they almost always trade it for something more sensible.

None of them I've seen do, and not only because dumping after a few months a newly purchased/leased vehicle for something more "sensible" is financially irrational. Unlike Euroland they're relatively cheap to purchase, and ultra relatively cheap to fuel and license.

Quote from: Madman on July 14, 2015, 07:13:17 AM

And, a few months later when the novelty wears off, they almost always trade it for something more sensible.

Wat experience do u have with Japanese and Euro expats. Im gonna go w/ Mr Cougsboto

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 14, 2015, 04:26:07 PM
Wat experience do u have with Japanese and Euro expats. Im gonna go w/ Mr Cougsboto

Well, for starters, I play on a cricket team with people from Britain, Zimbabwe, Australia, Jamaica, Guyana, South Africa, Dominica, Pakistan, New Zealand Trinidad and India.  Plus, I've worked with people from the UK, Russia, Nigeria, South Africa, Ireland, France and Italy.

I'll give you just one example of what I'm talking about.  One of my cricket team mates (British born and of Indian ancestry) upon his arrival in America sometime around 25 years ago, bought a Mustang convertible.  I know it's not an SUV, but other recent ex-pats I know have bought those, too.  Anyway, my friend grew up addicted to American television and always desired a Mustang convertible.  It was his dream car.  He was so exited when he got to the US and bought a brand-spankin'-new (at the time) Fox-platform Mustang GT 5.0 convertible!  He was living the dream!  For a while, anyway.

Then, gradually, he came to realise what a gigantic pile of shit this car really was.  The convertible body flexed like a wet noodle over every bump in the road, the interior was made to ex-Soviet bloc standards and one-by-one all the electric components quit working.  Heartbroken doesn't even begin to describe his experience.  His "American Dream" car turned out to be a nightmare.  I actually rode in this car back in the '90s when he still had it and was a typical example of an early 1990s American car.  In other words, it was shit!

Today, he drives a Toyota.  Most of my other ex-pat friends did the same thing.  Upon arrival, they bought a Mustang/Camaro/Corvette, gigantic SUV or obnoxious pickup.  Then the novelty value wore off and they soon realised how horrible these things really were and replaced it with something altogether more sensible and better suited to their needs.  Typically European or Japanese.  Walk past the cars parked next to our cricket ground and you won't see any Escalades or bro-trucks.  We do have a guy with a classic MGA, though.

Granted, Mustangs, Camaros and Corvettes are much better today than they were back then and you certainly can't fault anyone for buying one these days.  But back when most of my friends arrived, it was the dark days of Detroit and those cars were awful.

So yes, I have seen first hand how ex-pats behave when they come to this country.