Quote from: CALL_911 on December 07, 2018, 07:30:21 AM
Not at all a suggestion that manuals should be brought back into the mainstream, but I just got back into the GTI after about a month of only driving automatics. I can now def say I will try my absolute hardest to stay in a manual car as long as I can. It's just more fun, even if it's objectively worse.

Yeah same for me. I know my 6MT is slower than an equivalent automatic but I enjoy it more. The occasional use of an automatic car always makes me appreciate getting back to a manual.

The traffic complaints mentioned by 12,000 RPM never really bothered me. I don't have much traffic now anyway, but even when I was living in Montreal, Toronto, and closer to Philly (where a ~12 mile commute could mean anywhere from ~45 to ~90 minutes) it never bother me either. using a clutch is so second nature that it feels weirder to me to drive an automatic.

Everyone has their preferences, but I think it really depends on the cars being compared. Going from a Golf R/GTI to a run of the mill rental car isn't really a 1:1 comparison. Plus some manuals are just not good. Every Nissan manual I've driven/owned was awful. So it's def case by case for me

Quote from: CALL_911 on December 07, 2018, 07:30:21 AM
Not at all a suggestion that manuals should be brought back into the mainstream, but I just got back into the GTI after about a month of only driving automatics. I can now def say I will try my absolute hardest to stay in a manual car as long as I can. It's just more fun, even if it's objectively worse.

I could see myself enjoying a good shiftable automatic/DCT as much as a manual in a DD. I care more about being in the right gear at the right time than I do about about actually pressing the clutch and moving the shifter. That's most of my frustration with the auto in the Explorer - it's pretty smooth and shifts fairly quickly for a 12 year old automatic, but even after nearly four years, I still don't really like it's decision making.

The alfa is fun in manual mode but just has too many gears to really enjoy using manual mode in 90% of driving (especially since you can't skip gears).

Quote from: BimmerM3 on December 07, 2018, 09:54:12 AM
I could see myself enjoying a good shiftable automatic/DCT as much as a manual in a DD. I care more about being in the right gear at the right time than I do about about actually pressing the clutch and moving the shifter. That's most of my frustration with the auto in the Explorer - it's pretty smooth and shifts fairly quickly for a 12 year old automatic, but even after nearly four years, I still don't really like it's decision making.

Yes.

I actually prefer torque converters, but I want to be in charge of the gear selection.

Quote from: r0tor on December 07, 2018, 10:16:03 AM
The alfa is fun in manual mode but just has too many gears to really enjoy using manual mode in 90% of driving (especially since you can't skip gears).

That's an 8 spd right?  I remember driving my cousin's V6 TLX with a 9spd and while the first few gears were fun to use the paddles for, by the time you start getting into 5-9 you just get annoyed.  You never remember what gear you're in and they are spaced so close that they feel the same half time so you have to drop down like 4 gear to get any sort of appreciable acceleration change but you can't skip so you space out as you just keep hitting the paddles and by the time you get the gear you want you've accelerated to a speed that needs a higher gear so back you go.  Meh.

^ yea pretty much.

It's fine for when you find a good road and then are able to hold gears and only change a few.  But cycling between 1-8 repeatedly?  Yea no

The ZF 8 speed is a fantastic transmission.  But if paired with a turbo engine with tons of torque, it would be even better as a 6 speed... But then that would lose the spec war

Quote from: Xer0 on December 07, 2018, 10:29:19 AM
That's an 8 spd right?  I remember driving my cousin's V6 TLX with a 9spd and while the first few gears were fun to use the paddles for, by the time you start getting into 5-9 you just get annoyed.  You never remember what gear you're in and they are spaced so close that they feel the same half time so you have to drop down like 4 gear to get any sort of appreciable acceleration change but you can't skip so you space out as you just keep hitting the paddles and by the time you get the gear you want you've accelerated to a speed that needs a higher gear so back you go.  Meh.

I've never bothered with the paddles in my car.  Just seems like a waste of time.  Their only functional in sport mode and I haven't even bothered switching to sport mode.  Why manufacturers think it's necessary to provide paddle shift in a SUV/CUV is beyond me.

Quote from: CaminoRacer on December 07, 2018, 10:25:51 AM
Yes.

I actually prefer torque converters, but I want to be in charge of the gear selection.

Me, too. I want a stick shift with a torque converter.

I like the manual mode in the Jeep for holding speed going down mountains and in shitty weather.  That's really my only ever use for it.

Quote from: r0tor on December 07, 2018, 10:16:03 AM
The alfa is fun in manual mode but just has too many gears to really enjoy using manual mode in 90% of driving (especially since you can't skip gears).

Yeah, I could see that. Most of my experience with DCTs is my dad's A4 (7-speed), but I've mostly driven it around town, so I was mostly rowing through the lower gears.

Quote from: FoMoJo on December 07, 2018, 10:37:55 AM
I've never bothered with the paddles in my car.  Just seems like a waste of time.  Their only functional in sport mode and I haven't even bothered switching to sport mode.  Why manufacturers think it's necessary to provide paddle shift in a SUV/CUV is beyond me.

Most paddle shifters are infuriatingly disconnected from the act of shifting. Some just say screw you, human, I don't want to shift.

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 07, 2018, 10:40:13 AM
Me, too. I want a stick shift with a torque converter.

Get yourself an old Chrysler fluid drive, circa early 50s. 

A friend, way back then, had a Dodge with fluid drive and 3 on the tree.  Weird setup.  Leave it in 3rd gear and accelerate from a stop.  Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock.

Quote from: FoMoJo on December 07, 2018, 10:44:36 AM
Get yourself an old Chrysler fluid drive, circa early 50s. 

A friend, way back then, had a Dodge with fluid drive and 3 on the tree.  Weird setup.  Leave it in 3rd gear and accelerate from a stop.  Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock.

I've only read about them, but I think it would be sweet.

Quote from: FoMoJo on December 07, 2018, 10:44:36 AM
Get yourself an old Chrysler fluid drive, circa early 50s. 

A friend, way back then, had a Dodge with fluid drive and 3 on the tree.  Weird setup.  Leave it in 3rd gear and accelerate from a stop.  Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock.

I launched in 5th in my old Accord once or twice just to see what it'd feel like. "Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock" is a great description, and I'm sure it's even more accurate for that old Dodge.

Quote from: BimmerM3 on December 07, 2018, 10:47:44 AM


I launched in 5th in my old Accord once or twice just to see what it'd feel like. "Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock" is a great description.

But the smell is different.

One time I had to launch my motorcycle in 6th gear, because a bolt had backed out and was blocking me from down-shifting. Luckily there was a gas station right there so I could put the bolt back in its place.

It was surprisingly not difficult to get it going. 6th is barely an overdrive gear, though. Like 0.97:1

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 07, 2018, 10:46:18 AM
I've only read about them, but I think it would be sweet.

Shift reprogramming kits and manual valve bodies are available for most old-school automatics.

Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 07, 2018, 12:28:06 PM
Shift reprogramming kits and manual valve bodies are available for most old-school automatics.

Auto-manual valve bodies is the best. You can leave it in D if you're lazy, or shift it yourself and it'll obediently hold the gears.

Combine that with a 383 SBC and a 3000-3500 stall converter and you have a damn fun car.

What is the downside to a high stall TC on a street car?

Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 07, 2018, 12:28:06 PM
Shift reprogramming kits and manual valve bodies are available for most old-school automatics.

I'll get a manual valve bodied 700R4 for my GMC, and anything that I happen to do an LS swap in.

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 07, 2018, 12:35:08 PM
What is the downside to a high stall TC on a street car?

God dramn revving to 3000 RPM before the car starts moving? Fuel economy? Noise complaints?

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 07, 2018, 12:35:08 PM
What is the downside to a high stall TC on a street car?

Below the stall speed you're mostly just churning ATF. Yeah, you'll move, but not as efficiently.

Buick had for a while two-speed stall converters and they're still somewhat popular amongst hot rodders.

I believe my JGC has a fairly high stall speed.  It tends to use it as a cvt and unlocks the torque converter to handle more load before downshifting... Results in a smooth mushy throttle response

lock-up torque converters (so, all modern ones) tend to have higher stall speeds.

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 07, 2018, 12:36:14 PM
God dramn revving to 3000 RPM before the car starts moving? Fuel economy? Noise complaints?

I consider all of those positives.

(a lock-up converter basically solves the fuel economy thing)

Quote from: CaminoRacer on December 07, 2018, 02:28:33 PM
I consider all of those positives.

(a lock-up converter basically solves the fuel economy thing)

And I want a manual switch for the TCC on the shift knob. Manumatic. Fuck computers.

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 07, 2018, 12:35:08 PM
What is the downside to a high stall TC on a street car?

Mostly durability. Below stall speed much of the engine power is put into the ATF as heat, and it can quickly overheat an AT, such as cruising on the freeway below stall speed.

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 07, 2018, 02:50:24 PM
And I want a manual switch for the TCC on the shift knob. Manumatic. Fuck computers.

Its possible. Some people hack theirs to do that with the Ford AOD, because its sometimes wonky.

I did not know old TCs didn't have lock up. Learn something every day