Quote from: Xer0 on September 11, 2019, 12:35:27 PM
Nuclear is pretty scary for a lot of people and I'm sure the recent HBO series about Chernobyl freaked a bunch of people out.  Even France is scaling back its Nuclear reactors and isn't building new ones to replace its older units, IIRC. 

Fearmongering I suppose.  People forgetting the Chernobyl incident is a completely different design compared to the west, Fukushima is a 50 year old design that is no longer used and current one would not have had the same issues, and 3 mile island the effects was negligible. 

Quote from: Xer0 on September 11, 2019, 12:35:27 PM
Nuclear is pretty scary for a lot of people and I'm sure the recent HBO series about Chernobyl freaked a bunch of people out.  Even France is scaling back its Nuclear reactors and isn't building new ones to replace its older units, IIRC. 

AFAIK the actual Chernobyl event already had them freaked out, but the Fukushima disaster was the final nail in the coffin.

Chernobyl and Fukishima were just steps away from being 10-1000x worse, which could've rendered uninhabitable entire countries. Overall a good track record of safety but just ONE bad mistake would be infinitely worse than the sum total benefit; IOW, for most, the risk/reward ratio doesn't pan out.

Quote from: GoCougs on September 11, 2019, 12:54:18 PM
Chernobyl and Fukishima were just steps away from being 10-1000x worse, which could've rendered uninhabitable entire countries. Overall a good track record of safety but just ONE bad mistake would be infinitely worse than the sum total benefit; IOW, for most, the risk/reward ratio doesn't pan out.

Lessons learned, don't build shitty reactors or reactors that are vulnerable to natural elements, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, etc.  Nuclear is still a good option when done right.

Quote from: FoMoJo on September 11, 2019, 01:36:54 PM
Lessons learned, don't build shitty reactors or reactors that are vulnerable to natural elements, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, etc.  Nuclear is still a good option when done right.

And don't be part of the USSR where they constantly did sketchy stuff.

Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 11, 2019, 01:42:36 PM
And don't be part of the USSR where they constantly did sketchy stuff.

Although each/most participating nations have their own Atomic/Nuclear Commission, it would seem that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) should have more teeth to ensure that all nations with nuclear capabilities must meet stringent standards with nuclear energy plants.  If the world wasn't so stupid, this would have happened long ago.

Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 11, 2019, 01:42:36 PM
And don't be part of the USSR where they constantly did sketchy stuff.

I can't really imagine China being that much better.  That 3 Gorge dam is just a disaster waiting to happen.

Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 11, 2019, 03:06:53 AM

Before the government makes owning ICE cars artificially more expensive, they need to invest in the infrastructure for EVs etc. This takes decades.

The government does not need to do anything it is private companies, and individuals that need to step up the game. The government should only set the ground rules. I do not want the government building a charger network.

It did not take Tesla that long to build their network. VW built over 4000 chargers in the US in under one year.

Is it a challenge? Yes. But I think it is becoming apparent that fossil fuels just have to many downsides.

One current example: Our neighbors from the Netherlands today announced that they are stopping natural gas extraction (Trump must be on the phone already) in 2022, after it was confirmed in the last few month that the earth quake in 2012 was due to natural gas extraction, and that a large % of the ground in the Netherlands is in danger of collapsing.

Quote from: Laconian on September 11, 2019, 10:54:04 AM
If Germany is serious, they need to get off coal. Too bad they're so uptight about nuclear.

Yeah, the coal is a black eye for the country really, and one can't really say that we are governed by Eco-terrorists when we in 2018 used eminent domain against an entire village of some ~100 people to strip mine the place.

Quote from: NomisR on September 11, 2019, 12:27:53 PM
What's the actual reasoning behind this?

Germany is still impacted by Chernobyl today. Every wild boar hunted needs to be tested for radiation, in some countries in southern Germany 2/3 shot are disposed off as radioactive waste. The wild boars in Germany are more contaminated then the average apple in Chernobyl today. It is a food chain problem. Chernobyl dumped radioactive Caesium over Germany, mushrooms soak that up like a sponge, and the wild boars eat the mushrooms.

Fukushima was basically the final straw. If the human robots can not handle it safely then...

Quote from: NomisR on September 11, 2019, 12:42:40 PM
Fearmongering I suppose.  People forgetting the Chernobyl incident is a completely different design compared to the west, Fukushima is a 50 year old design that is no longer used and current one would not have had the same issues, and 3 mile island the effects was negligible. 

The question is what design errors do the modern reactors have that has gone unnoticed? Some of the new reactor proposals use sodium for cooling. Every thrown sodium into water in school? The engineers say "We have water proofed the reactor, no water can reach the sodium, we can guarantee it." No they can't.

It should be noted that 3 mile Island was just about an epic disaster.  The people on the scene were pretty convinced they had a bubble under the containment dome that was going to blow up... and they did but thankfully it didn't blow up

Quote from: Galaxy on September 11, 2019, 02:22:12 PM
Germany is still impacted by Chernobyl today. Every wild boar hunted needs to be tested for radiation, in some countries in southern Germany 2/3 shot are disposed off as radioactive waste. The wild boars in Germany are more contaminated then the average apple in Chernobyl today. It is a food chain problem. Chernobyl dumped radioactive Caesium over Germany, mushrooms soak that up like a sponge, and the wild boars eat the mushrooms.

Fukushima was basically the final straw. If the human robots can not handle it safely then...

It took a 9.0 earthquake with an outdated reactor design for this to happen though.

Quote

The question is what design errors do the modern reactors have that has gone unnoticed? Some of the new reactor proposals use sodium for cooling. Every thrown sodium into water in school? The engineers say "We have water proofed the reactor, no water can reach the sodium, we can guarantee it." No they can't.

Of course, but when you look at things like the mini nuclear reactors that's been developed in recent years, that seems like a better idea or at least a lot less risky and more self contained as they're already buried. 

Quote from: r0tor on September 11, 2019, 08:18:06 PM
It should be noted that 3 mile Island was just about an epic disaster.  The people on the scene were pretty convinced they had a bubble under the containment dome that was going to blow up... and they did but thankfully it didn't blow up

Would modern computer systems eliminate more of the errors that have occurred in 3 mile island though?

San Onofre, the nuke power station closest to San Diego, got shut down recently.
It was built in 1966.
So some cooling pipes were old and in need of replacement, and the replacement parts were made in China.
Would you want to live close to a nuke power plant with parts made in China? 
So of course the parts failed, caused some radiation leaks, and they shut it down permanently.
The spent fuel since 66 is still stored there because they can't find a place that will take it.
This is the problem with nukes.

Quote from: giant_mtb on September 11, 2019, 06:57:25 AM
You ever heard of methane?

Is that the stuff that powers the Galaxy Class starships of the Federation?

Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 11, 2019, 09:39:51 AM
But making things more expensive is how you encourage new solutions, like EV charging networks and better public transportation.

You may disagree with it, but it does make a bit of sense.

Sure, but there are so many problems that I can think off that result from this. My biggest complaint is:

They are literally forcing everyone in this country to sell their ICE cars and buy an EV or Fuel Cell vehicle - despite the infrastructure not being there. There are not even enough EV choices on the market.

And this brings up some other questions or problems such as what's going to happen to those German ICE cars? Are they going to be wrecked? The most likely scenario is that these vehicles are going to be exported to Eastern Europe and Africa (that's where most older cars from Germany end up) where their anti-pollution systems are the first items which are removed.

How is that going to reduce global CO2 emissions? Our ICE cars are just going to be polluting somewhere else and emit more toxins and more CO2.

Germany has become a cheap labor country. There are many poorer people here who depend on their older cars to get to work or their various jobs (yep, jobs) because our [expensive] public transport can't bring them there or bring them there on time. Fuel prices here are already insane and these people can barely afford to keep their car running. How are they supposed to buy a new car, much less an EV? Our government wants to screw us with a carbon tax which would increase the fuel prices by 10 cents per liter and gradually increase so that by the year 2030 we are going to pay 60 cents more per liter. Just the other day I fueled up my car at a price of 1.60 Euros per liter. OUCH. So by 2030 that would be 2.20+ Euros per liter! PER LITER!!! 

And to add to ^that^, those older cars are below current EURO6 emission standards which means these people may not be able to drive their cars into some cities. They are literally being disowned and given no alternative to get around. Again, our public transport system is overrated, overburdened, unreliable, unsafe, expensive and non-existent outside of major cities.


My second complaint is.

Which countries in the world are going to follow Germany's disastrous renewable energy policy?

Merkel's stupidity has burdened us with the highest energy prices in Europe, if not the world. And electricity prices are about to get more expensive!

For your information, under Merkel we've shut down most of our nuclear power plants and are phasing out the few remaining ones. Our main source of energy is from our vast reserves of brown coal. To our credit, our brown coal power plants are some of the cleanest in the world with various pollutant filtration systems. But they don't filter out CO2, which is why the Greenies here are whining.

We already have power supply problems but the morons who are ruining this country want to shut down the brown coal power plants.

And then what? Wind and solar won't even provide 1/4th of our energy needs. In fact wind power plants are being built on forests which we're cutting down (how idiotic!) and they are being built as close to some towns as possible. Why do I mention this? Because some studies have shown that giant rotating propellers from wind power plants cause health problems to the people who live nearby in the form of low frequency waves. The wind power plants also shred an estimated millions of insects and birds and bats every year, so they're bad for the environment and people living nearby.

We don't have the landscape for hydroelectric power unlike Norway for example. We are already buying nuclear power from France and the Czech Republic or brown coal power from Poland if our energy grid is low on power. It's about to get worse if our coal power plants are taken off the grid. There's a serious chance of a blackout happening here.

Which countries are going to follow this disastrous example? The few countries with nuclear power will and should stick to it, and those that use coal power and other fossil fuels are very likely to stick with it because it's cheap, plentiful and it provides a reliable source of power. 


And here's another thought.

The emerging markets are not going to switch to clean energy overnight because it's simply to expensive. The people in those countries don't want to be saddled with a high cost of living just to satisfy some unproven CO2 theories.

The people in those countries want to enjoy their newfound wealth. They want to drive nice cars (not EVs which they won't be able to charge...), they want to fly around the world and see other countries, they want to take a cruise on a ship, they want to enjoy meat etc. - all of which produces a ton of CO2.

There are no current programs in many countries to lower CO2 emissions. And there won't be when they see how ridiculous the program is in Germany and how badly it's failing - and how expensive it's becoming.

Also, what incentive do oil-rich countries have to switch to renewable energy? NONE. Oil is plentiful, cheap and it powers proven technology (internal combustion engines, jet engines and so forth) and is vital to their economy. Giving up on oil is bad for business and their economic prosperity.


I realize that eventually fossil-fueled cars, airplanes etc. are going to [have to] be replaced, but this takes time if you are going to do it properly. And it has to be affordable! And that's the problem. The way our government is making one retarded decision after the other, this whole "lowering our CO2 emissions" BS is going to cost us more and more and the results are not going to make a difference for decades. And the rest of the world, are they going along for the ride? Nope. India, China and Russia can supposedly emit as much CO2 as they want until 2030 when they suddenly have to lower their emissions (yeah right, they're going to give the retarded EU the middle finger...). The US? Well Trump gave the Paris Climate Accords the finger - and I doubt that the average American, just like the average German etc. - will want to give up their enjoyable lifestyle and pay even more for goods that they consume (fuel, meat etc.).

According to a German study the complete decarbonization of Germany is going to cost every single person in a German household 640,- Euros: per month. That's 7680,- Euros a year, and just for one person. A family of four? Whoa!!! And those 640,- Euros per person are just a rough estimate with potential rising cost per year!

Again, I personally view this whole climate change and CO2 hysteria rather relaxed. Is climate change real? Yes. Can we stop it or slow it down? I don't think so - unless it were truly a GLOBAL EFFORT - which will never happen in this world. Our best chances are to invest our resources into adapting to it and living with it. Just my two cents.

Sorry for the jumbled up writing style. I'm in bed on my iPad and about to fall asleep. 

Quote from: Galaxy on September 11, 2019, 02:22:12 PM
The government does not need to do anything it is private companies, and individuals that need to step up the game. The government should only set the ground rules. I do not want the government building a charger network.

And according to an article I read on Welt.de about two weeks ago, the companies which are being contracted to build EV charging stations are building the wrong ones: 22kW chargers with overpriced electricity that is naturally charged by the hour. Someone is making a profit! 

Personally, I am still not convinced by EVs. I think we should research and invest more into these so-called e-fuels: synthetic fuels made out of air in which the CO2 is removed and which, when burned in an internal combustion engine, emit no CO2 as a result. With ever improving catalytic converters etc. this would seem like a really neat idea, especially since the energy density of liquid fuels can't be beat.

Makes sense, Wimmer. I especially like the cost per person of green energy thing. It's insanely expensive.

Quote from: shp4man on September 12, 2019, 05:48:32 PM
Makes sense, Wimmer. I especially like the cost per person of green energy thing. It's insanely expensive.

And as of now can't supply the ever increasing energy needs of a [still] highly industrialized nation like Germany.

I really wonder if our politicians have some kind of ulterior motive or if the global elites somehow have dirt on them and are forcing them to ruin this country. Man, these days I am so convinced that there is something going on in the background that us normal folks have no knowledge of. Merkel's idiotic uncontrolled mass "migration" policy, the disastrous energy change etc. It does not make sense, but she's sticking to it!!!

Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 09, 2019, 06:13:34 AM
"lighter electronic cars.".

Either that's a poor translation, or someone has been watching too much Tron.

Not possible.

Hilarious talk show on German TV last night. Among the guests were Herbert Diess of Volkswagen, politician Michael Kretschmer (CDU), car expert Ferdinand Dudenhöffer, a retarded Green Party politician named Antonia Hofreiter whose specialty is gender studies (no idea what he was doing here...) and a radical "activist" (more like terrorist) named Janna Aljets (aka "Tina Velo").

So basically the Green Party gender expert and Janna Aljets were hating on cars. Antonia Hofreiter wants more trains and less cars while Janna Aljets wants a complete ban of all things cars, including electric cars. Both of these fucktards were PWNED by the other guests in all categories.

What does a moron with no arguments do? She attacks the other guests as "white old men who are responsible for all the problems in the world". Pathetic. Janna Aljets went as far to claim that "men (males) lack creativity in the transport segment and that we need more women making creative decisions here." Aha, so "creative decisions" like her demands to abolish all forms of vehicular mobility? Fuck that stupid cunt. 

Here's the entire talk show for those of you who speak the Kraut language. At times it's absolutely hilarious how Antonia Hofreiter and Janna Aljets are PWNED.   


www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVbdwOhuNE4


Welt.de Link (German): https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article200222250/Maybrit-Illner-Fahrrad-Aktivistin-will-Autos-verbieten-und-erntet-Raunen.html

Frankfurt IAA 2019... radical lefties from "Greenpeace" who hate all things automotive are damaging cars by jumping on their roofs while holding up signs which read "climate killers". And they are not being arrested or escorted out! What the god damn fuck? Shit Hole Germany.
















They are even protesting at seaports. Here some brand new BMW SUVs are coming in from the USA and these assholes are there to cause trouble...

BMW probably decided it was better to let the idiots damage the cars than to have every paper in the country run headlines of protestors being dragged off or teargassed.

Quote from: Raza  on September 12, 2019, 10:33:04 PM
Not possible.

+1

Tron: Legacy is my go-to relaxation flick. Best (and longest!) music video EVER!!!!!!!

Looks to me like we need to build a wall around Berlin (to keep the crazies there and away from the rest of us), and make Germany pay for it.

Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 13, 2019, 05:36:03 AM
Frankfurt IAA 2019... radical lefties from "Greenpeace" who hate all things automotive are damaging cars by jumping on their roofs while holding up signs which read "climate killers". And they are not being arrested or escorted out! What the god damn fuck? Shit Hole Germany.

Good advertising for BMW..."Roofs that can withstand even the most idiotic assaults.  The next time someone jumps on your roof, make sure that you're in a BMW."

Quote from: FoMoJo on September 13, 2019, 07:50:53 AM
Good advertising for BMW..."Roofs that can withstand even the most idiotic assaults.  The next time someone jumps on your roof, make sure that you're in a BMW."

Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 13, 2019, 05:42:27 AM
BMW probably decided it was better to let the idiots damage the cars than to have every paper in the country run headlines of protestors being dragged off or teargassed.

There's a young girl, maybe 15-16 years old in my neighborhood, and I see her when she walks her dog. Maybe two months ago I got into a conversation with her about the dog. After awhile the topic turned to global warming. She really believes that by 2030 the world is gonna implode, explode... whatever, if we don't get rid of all CO2.

She protests at Friday's for Future in Munich.

Her father is an engineer at BMW.


If that was my kid, I'd disown it.

More news from Merkel's Shit Hole Germany. More stupid teenagers and Greenies protesting against SUVs. They are now carrying signs and stickers which read FCK SUV.

When are they going to protest against sports cars? Or fat luxury sedans? Fucking retarded little shits. 







Link: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article200299232/Proteste-gegen-IAA-Auf-den-Schildern-steht-FCK-SUV-Ich-hasse-Autos-und-Schwule-gegen-SUV.html

Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 14, 2019, 10:44:34 AM
More news from Merkel's Shit Hole Germany. More stupid teenagers and Greenies protesting against SUVs. They are now carrying signs and stickers which read FCK SUV.

When are they going to protest against sports cars? Or fat luxury sedans? Fucking retarded little shits. 







Link: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article200299232/Proteste-gegen-IAA-Auf-den-Schildern-steht-FCK-SUV-Ich-hasse-Autos-und-Schwule-gegen-SUV.html

My brother was just telling me today about a friend of his who had an argument with his millennial daughter about the date of the Pearl Harbor attack.  She insisted that it took place in 1967 and that there was no need for her to look it up because she was sure she was right. And she kept after him about it for days.  They finally looked it up together and when she saw that she was wrong, she just shrugged it off and offered no apology for her aggressive behavior while being wrong.  That is what we have trained people to behave like  and it is ruining our society and the western world in general.  We live in an age when the ignorant are strongest in their opinions.

Quote from: dazzleman on September 14, 2019, 11:50:19 AM
My brother was just telling me today about a friend of his who had an argument with his millennial daughter about the date of the Pearl Harbor attack.  She insisted that it took place in 1967 and that there was no need for her to look it up because she was sure she was right. And she kept after him about it for days.  They finally looked it up together and when she saw that she was wrong, she just shrugged it off and offered no apology for her aggressive behavior while being wrong.  That is what we have trained people to behave like  and it is ruining our society and the western world in general.  We live in an age when the ignorant are strongest in their opinions.

Days?  They could've Googled in in 12 seconds and been done with it.

She just sounds dumb to me, lol

Quote from: Laconian on September 14, 2019, 03:00:50 PM


She just sounds dumb to me, lol

Or the father was exaggerating when he said "days" to emphasize his point that miLeNnIaLs aRe dUmB.