https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a30799498/2020-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-vs-2020-tesla-model-s-performance/

So yeah yeah electric car comparo, who cares.

But the graph on consecutive results shows an Achilles heel of the Model S, which is that performance take an absolute nose dive after those initial runs as the battery pack discharges.



1/4 mile runs in the 14+ to 15+ second range means V6 Camrys and 2.0 Accords are destroying it at that time.  The Taycan can maintain its performance.

That makes sense why despite the Tesla's incredible passing performance, I almost never see a Tesla or any kind shredding up the highway.  They are almost always moving at a constant pace.  Now I know why.

My buddy recently got a Tesla and he keeps trying to convince me it's the best thing ever, and the Tesla is almost the official car of surgeons these days with how many are in the hospital parking lot, but this has pretty much killed my interest in getting one.

I think the Model 3's newer motors (which will be coming to the Model S soon?) fixes that. Since the Taycan just came out it's no surprise that it doesn't have any issues.

Porsche's thermal management is next level stuff.  None of Tesla's stuff is remotely similar in that aspect.

Quote from: MrH on February 07, 2020, 04:04:29 PM
Porsche's thermal management is next level stuff.  None of Tesla's stuff is remotely similar in that aspect.

It does also cost twice as much. Tesla & GM still have pretty good thermal management. GM even cut back some of their management because they realized it wasn't necessary.

Porsche's response to the "surprise" EPA rating range of ~200 miles for the Taycan despite equivalent kW-hr ratings and performance to the Model S was that the Taycan is much better with battery life and performance over the duration of a charge (i.e., Tesla gamed the EPA test, or, the EPA gamed the test around Telsa - probably the latter). It should also be noted that real-world testing has been showing the Taycan getting up to ~280 miles of range.

Quote from: GoCougs on February 07, 2020, 06:22:38 PM
Porsche's response to the "surprise" EPA rating range of ~200 miles for the Taycan despite equivalent kW-hr ratings and performance to the Model S was that the Taycan is much better with battery life and performance over the duration of a charge (i.e., Tesla gamed the EPA test, or, the EPA gamed the test around Telsa - probably the latter). It should also be noted that real-world testing has been showing the Taycan getting up to ~280 miles of range.

There might be issues with the Taycan's 2 speed gearbox during the EPA test. I've heard mixed opinions on if it actually gets into the economy 2nd gear.

During the EPA test, or ever?

Ludicrous Mode is a bit of a sham. Each time you use it you get a warning that it will decrease battery and drive train life, plus the battery has to be at optimum temperature. When not in Ludicrous Mode, the Model S is just slightly quicker than the Model 3 Performance. But that's not too bad, as that is damned fast (mid 11s).

As to performance degradation differences, the Taycan uses a 800 VDC system vs. the Tesla's 400 VDC. For the same power, the Model S will flow twice the amps, and since heating is a function of the square of current, the Model S has to dissipate 2²=4x the heat of the Taycan, and it's not practical for the Model S to have 4x the cooling capacity.

Wondering when anyone really does more then 2 back to back quarter mile pulls in real life

These must have been immediate, like zero rest in between. There are lots of vids of Teslas spending the day at the strip, with many passes, on a single charge, with only fairly minor degradation in performance. Public day at a strip one is typically waiting 30+ minutes between passes however. Though not realistic, it does show the superiority of design of the Taycan.

Quote from: r0tor on February 08, 2020, 06:45:17 AM
Wondering when anyone really does more then 2 back to back quarter mile pulls in real life

Or any quarter mile period.

Quote from: Submariner on February 08, 2020, 01:42:47 PM
Or any quarter mile period.

I live my life one quarter mile at a time.

Imagine after but ~20 seconds of full performance, an S8 or E63 or M5 or whatever cut acceleration by ~40%...

Such a limitation probably hasn't hurt Model S sales but it shows that full Model S performance is more parlor trick than legit capability.

The upcoming Plaid version of the Model S supposedly addresses these shortcomings, but then again with three motors and 125-200 kWHr battery, it's bound to be priced like a Taycan Turbo.

I'm not sure there is a road or race track in several time zones of me where one can go flat out in a model S for 20s straight.

If the extra cooling performance e comes at the cost of batgery range, then it's pretty pointless

With that kind of acceleration, you're already breakin' the law pretty badly in just six seconds.

Thinking about it more, another factor in the Taycan's superior performance longevity is that with the two speed gearbox, the Taycan is using a motor that has twice the RPM and half the torque as the Model S, to achieve the same power and top speed. Torque is proportional to current, so with a single speed gearbox, the Model S motor has to flow twice the current to make the same power. Thus, half the voltage = twice the current and half the RPM = twice the current = 2² * 2² = 16x more theoretical heat generation in the Model S. Porsche FTW.

You're talking yourself into a Taycan. Hope your perf comes up rosy.

Nah, that's way too much attention, and probably a lot of headaches too.

Model S is a joke, and Tesla fans have always been the lowest common denominators.
I guess one of the guys on dragtimes was a HUGE Tesla guy and waiting until Tesla came out with 2 updates just before it raced the Taycan.

And lost.