EVs

Started by Morris Minor, November 08, 2018, 04:03:12 AM

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 19, 2020, 08:30:22 PM
Wyoming looks pretty sparse on the public charger map. Especially compared to Utah and Colorado next door

It's sparse on everything but awesomeness. :rockon:
Will

Morris Minor

#631
Quote from: Laconian on June 19, 2020, 04:29:31 PM
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/The-US-Coal-Industry-Is-Declining-Irreversibly.html

Coal's share in the US energy mix is going down, fast.
This is good. One of my favorite YouTube channels is Fully Charged. I'm becoming a convert to not burning stuff, maybe because of where I grew up and the era I grew up in.

Although one of my former colleagues heats his Pennsylvania home with radiators and a boiler augur-fed with rice anthracite. He gets a huge truckload of the stuff delivered once a year. The stuff is cheap. Interesting throwback for me because that's how the house I grew up in was heated. 
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤
''Simplicity is Complexity Resolved'' - Constantin Brâncuși

Laconian

#632
Burning coal when there are myriad cleaner solutions is kind of an asshole thing to do. It's like burning your trash in your backyard because it saves a few bucks on garbage service. Sure, it rains charred bits on your neighbors' houses, but that's their houses and not yours. Coal is fine when you're in rural China with zero money and zero utilities. But this is the first world!

(I had one of those neighbors growing up... so triggered)
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

Morris Minor

⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤
''Simplicity is Complexity Resolved'' - Constantin Brâncuși

FoMoJo

"Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth" ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Soup DeVille

but not to see UP Chris, or Wyoming
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

CaminoRacer

I could roadtrip home to Cincinnati.
1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 24, 2020, 07:48:28 PM
I could roadtrip home to Cincinnati.

What is Bolt's range IRL?
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

CaminoRacer

On the highway, 190-200 miles I think.

Going up mountains destroys the range but then you get tons of free miles/range on the way back down
1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 25, 2020, 08:11:59 AM
On the highway, 190-200 miles I think.

Going up mountains destroys the range but then you get tons of free miles/range on the way back down

Even better if you don't brake?!  :lol:
Will

NomisR

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 25, 2020, 08:45:40 AM
Even better if you don't brake?!  :lol:

Just engine brake regen all the way down.

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 25, 2020, 08:11:59 AM
On the highway, 190-200 miles I think.

Going up mountains destroys the range but then you get tons of free miles/range on the way back down

That's almost the same as the Cherokee :lol:
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

CaminoRacer

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 25, 2020, 08:45:40 AM
Even better if you don't brake?!  :lol:

Quote from: NomisR on June 25, 2020, 08:49:51 AM
Just engine brake regen all the way down.

I never use the actual brakes. Just regen braking. It makes going down mountains much more enjoyable - no worries about brake fade and my mileage goes through the roof  :dance:
1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance

NomisR

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 25, 2020, 09:25:14 AM
I never use the actual brakes. Just regen braking. It makes going down mountains much more enjoyable - no worries about brake fade and my mileage goes through the roof  :dance:

One pedal EV driving seriously makes life so much easier especially in stop and go traffic.  I can't stand it now when I have to drive my wife's car.. and the fact that Honda's brakes are typically undersized annoys me even more..

Morris Minor

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 25, 2020, 09:25:14 AM
I never use the actual brakes. Just regen braking. It makes going down mountains much more enjoyable - no worries about brake fade and my mileage goes through the roof  :dance:
This is encouraging. I live in hilly terrain, to put it mildly.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤
''Simplicity is Complexity Resolved'' - Constantin Brâncuși

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Morris Minor on June 25, 2020, 09:36:04 AM
This is encouraging. I live in hilly terrain, to put it mildly.

EVs are great for that. Lots of torque going up, regen going down
1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance

NomisR

The effortless torque is great.  I can speed past everyone going up hill without the engine roars making it feel like I was driving on flat land.

afty

Another underrated benefit is no power loss at altitude.  :D

ChrisV

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on June 25, 2020, 07:46:20 AM
What is Bolt's range IRL?

Mine is at almost 300 miles mixed if I don't drive too aggressively. Over 250 highway.
Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection...

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: ChrisV on June 25, 2020, 01:00:46 PM
Mine is at almost 300 miles mixed if I don't drive too aggressively. Over 250 highway.

What if you draft a tractor-trailer doing 55? :lol:
2024 Mitsubishi Mirage ES

CaminoRacer

Quote from: ChrisV on June 25, 2020, 01:00:46 PM
Mine is at almost 300 miles mixed if I don't drive too aggressively. Over 250 highway.

2020 model?

I get worse highway mileage that lots of other owners, probably because Utah highways are 70-80 mph instead of 65.
1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance

NomisR

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 25, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
2020 model?

I get worse highway mileage that lots of other owners, probably because Utah highways are 70-80 mph instead of 65.

What's your Mi/Kw?  i'm at 3.8 and average around 200 per full charge.. but when I drive, i'm usually 80+ and oftentime at the limiter :lol:

Laconian

I want an EV now. Too bad we never drive anywhere these days.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

CaminoRacer

Quote from: NomisR on June 25, 2020, 02:54:11 PM
What's your Mi/Kw?  i'm at 3.8 and average around 200 per full charge.. but when I drive, i'm usually 80+ and oftentime at the limiter :lol:

3.8-4.1 with highway driving
1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV, 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance

afty

I'm averaging 253 Wh/mi = 3.95 mi/kWh = 133 MPGe.  Mostly short trips, city driving.

Morris Minor

#655
Robert Llewellyn made a good point the other day: We understand automotive hardware - with a century of refining it to what we have now. We've figured out suspension and brakes and tires and interiors and all the other bits. .. and EV hardware is far simpler than ICE hardware. Yes we'll be refining traction motors and batteries but they've been around for decades too.

What we don't understand is the bit that is new, the bit that it's more important to understand: software.

And that's where Tesla has crucially stolen the march on the established ICE players. It's much easier for Tesla to learn how to fix paint & get panel gaps right than it is for the others to learn how to do the software right.

Rumors are flying around VW:
Volkswagen ID.3 Software Problem: 'It's No Longer A Laughing Matter'
https://insideevs.com/news/406375/vw-id3-software-problem-update/


VW's first mass-market EV suffers delay thanks to software struggles
Versions of the ID 3 will now ship in September with unfinished software
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/11/21288572/volkswagen-id3-ev-delay-software-vw-herbert-diess
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤
''Simplicity is Complexity Resolved'' - Constantin Brâncuși

afty

One of my software engineer coworkers came to us from a large German auto company.  He said the same thing -- that the large German auto company didn't understand software, and that Tesla was eating their lunch with software.

Back to the Bolt.  I found this article fascinating: https://electrek.co/2020/06/25/chevy-bolt-retrospective/ .  The quick version is: Bolt great, GM and dealers terrible.

MrH

Quote from: Morris Minor on June 26, 2020, 09:14:43 AM
Robert Llewellyn made a good point the other day: We understand automotive hardware - with a century of refining it to what we have now. We've figured out suspension and brakes and tires and interiors and all the other bits. .. and EV hardware is far simpler than ICE hardware. Yes we'll be refining traction motors and batteries but they've been around for decades too.

What we don't understand is the bit that is new, the bit that it's more important to understand: software.

And that's where Tesla has crucially stolen the march on the established ICE players. It's much easier for Tesla to learn how to fix paint & get panel gaps right than it is for the others to learn how to do the software right.

I couldn't disagree more. Sure, Tesla does some things right with software, but they do a ton wrong.  There's a reason legacy OEMs are slow to bring bleeding edge tech to cars.  They'll catch up, and they'll do it without the issues Tesla has.

Tesla may push the boundaries, but it's not without issues.  The giant Model S and X screen isn't automotive grade.  The heat cycling causes it to delaminate, and the screen yellows and fails.  Huge issues here with no solution.  Class action lawsuit of course.

They also didn't consider the read/write cycle on their SSD, and vehicles are failing now.  Class action lawsuit here too.

Again, it's not like legacy OEMs didn't consider putting big screens in cars before tesla, they just didn't have the technology at automotive grade for the right price point yet.  We're starting to see it now, and it's actually done correctly.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

Morris Minor

Quote from: MrH on June 26, 2020, 10:26:01 AM
I couldn't disagree more. Sure, Tesla does some things right with software, but they do a ton wrong.  There's a reason legacy OEMs are slow to bring bleeding edge tech to cars.  They'll catch up, and they'll do it without the issues Tesla has.

Tesla may push the boundaries, but it's not without issues.  The giant Model S and X screen isn't automotive grade.  The heat cycling causes it to delaminate, and the screen yellows and fails.  Huge issues here with no solution.  Class action lawsuit of course.

They also didn't consider the read/write cycle on their SSD, and vehicles are failing now.  Class action lawsuit here too.

Again, it's not like legacy OEMs didn't consider putting big screens in cars before tesla, they just didn't have the technology at automotive grade for the right price point yet.  We're starting to see it now, and it's actually done correctly.
You are focusing on hardware - iPad display - just like the metal benders who run GM, VW, PSA et al.
The point is that the major challenge of EVs is that of software. Tesla understood that before anyone else.
Their code is probably really messy, but the crucial point is that the light bulb illuminated with them first. Understand that and you'll understand why their market cap is greater than Toyota, VW, Honda etc.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤
''Simplicity is Complexity Resolved'' - Constantin Brâncuși

MrH

Who cares who illuminates the light bulb first, if they can't profitably make light bulbs?

I will help the Tesla cult build an Elon statue for lighting the first light bulb, when he's bankrupt and in jail for running a perpetual fraud of a business.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV