I'm sure it doesn't help when your CEO has committed securities fraud, said SEC stands for Suck Elon's Cock, and has DOJ investigations still open against them.

Quote from: MrH on August 06, 2021, 11:06:43 AM
I'm sure it doesn't help when your CEO has committed securities fraud, said SEC stands for Suck Elon's Cock, and has DOJ investigations still open against them.

I'm pretty sure it was the union thing though. 

Quote from: MrH on August 06, 2021, 11:06:43 AM
....SEC stands for Suck Elon's Cock....

Love it     

Quote from: MrH on August 06, 2021, 11:06:43 AM
I'm sure it doesn't help when your CEO has committed securities fraud, said SEC stands for Suck Elon's Cock, and has DOJ investigations still open against them.

Quote from: SJ_GTI on August 06, 2021, 11:32:24 AM
I'm pretty sure it was the union thing though. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the WH people don't even know about the whole SEC thing with Elon Musk.

My brother in law, who owns a Model S, is probably gonna sell it.  He has the long range AWD one and it's several years old with less than 30,000 miles on the odometer.  He's gotten offers as high as $68 thousand for it on an EV market website (myev.com).

He drove it from Massachusetts to Florida and back, and on the way back there was some problem (not sure what) but he didn't get stranded.  Tesla took the car for a week or so and gave him another battery (not new; refurbished) for free.  He was irritated he didn't get a new battery.  Also irritated that it's very difficult/impossible to talk with anyone.  Everything is APP based and can't really get anyone live to talk to.  Very few service centers around where he lives and very long wait times to get car serviced. 

This weekend he again drives his car long distance to my house (about a 2 hr trip/one way).  On the way back he stopped at a supercharger, and after he charged up, a few minutes later he got a warning that his car would go dead in one minute and he needed to pull over immediately. This is the first time he's charged his new refurbished battery with a public Tesla supercharger. So he pulled over on a highway off ramp and the car went dead.  Kid inside.  He calls Tesla (can't get a hold of anyone - starts using their APP) and then calls AAA.  He's arranging for a tow and the car light indicates he can start driving again.  So basically the car went dead for 15 minutes. 

He wants a Chevy Suburban 

Personally I think overall these are kinda minor problems.  Lots of Teslas on the road with relatively few service centers outside of major metropolitan areas so there's going to be long wait times.  No dealership model has pluses (lot of them) and a few minuses (can't get a hold of anyone to talk to).  They gave him a different battery under warranty but it wasn't a new battery and he had no loaner for that week or two.  Car dying with one minute warning could have been very bad but that can help happen to any car (although his has less than 30,000 miles on the odometer). 

I wouldn't call getting stranded twice with <30k miles, and a total battery replacement as "minor problems"

Quote from: MrH on August 09, 2021, 09:12:43 AM
I wouldn't call getting stranded twice with <30k miles, and a total battery replacement as "minor problems"

I would, but I drive $2k beaters

Quote from: veeman on August 09, 2021, 09:10:53 AM
My brother in law, who owns a Model S, is probably gonna sell it.  He has the long range AWD one and it's several years old with less than 30,000 miles on the odometer.  He's gotten offers as high as $68 thousand for it on an EV market website (myev.com).

He drove it from Massachusetts to Florida and back, and on the way back there was some problem (not sure what) but he didn't get stranded.  Tesla took the car for a week or so and gave him another battery (not new; refurbished) for free.  He was irritated he didn't get a new battery.  Also irritated that it's very difficult/impossible to talk with anyone.  Everything is APP based and can't really get anyone live to talk to.  Very few service centers around where he lives and very long wait times to get car serviced. 

This weekend he again drives his car long distance to my house (about a 2 hr trip/one way).  On the way back he stopped at a supercharger, and after he charged up, a few minutes later he got a warning that his car would go dead in one minute and he needed to pull over immediately. This is the first time he's charged his new refurbished battery with a public Tesla supercharger. So he pulled over on a highway off ramp and the car went dead.  Kid inside.  He calls Tesla (can't get a hold of anyone - starts using their APP) and then calls AAA.  He's arranging for a tow and the car light indicates he can start driving again.  So basically the car went dead for 15 minutes. 

He wants a Chevy Suburban 

Personally I think overall these are kinda minor problems.  Lots of Teslas on the road with relatively few service centers outside of major metropolitan areas so there's going to be long wait times.  No dealership model has pluses (lot of them) and a few minuses (can't get a hold of anyone to talk to).  They gave him a different battery under warranty but it wasn't a new battery and he had no loaner for that week or two.  Car dying with one minute warning could have been very bad but that can help happen to any car (although his has less than 30,000 miles on the odometer).

Well, the Suburban is literally one of the best (family) vehicles ever built (not just the current iteration - its legacy), so there's that.

They're still curiosity/hobby cars for the rich IMO. I would never trust one with a family because of the lack of support as you note. That's not entirely Tesla's fault - an equivalent support network to Chevy, Toyota, etc., is impossible for the foreseeable future.

Quote from: MrH on August 09, 2021, 09:12:43 AM
I wouldn't call getting stranded twice with <30k miles, and a total battery replacement as "minor problems"

Well stranded once.  For 15 minutes.  But yeah, it's dicey to have a Tesla
as your only car when traveling beyond range.  More risk than with a new ICE vehicle. 

Quote from: GoCougs on August 09, 2021, 09:41:54 AM
Well, the Suburban is literally one of the best (family) vehicles ever built (not just the current iteration - its legacy), so there's that.

They're still curiosity/hobby cars for the rich IMO. I would never trust one with a family because of the lack of support as you note. That's not entirely Tesla's fault - an equivalent support network to Chevy, Toyota, etc., is impossible for the foreseeable future.

Yeah especially Tesla. 

Hug your kids and enjoy the short time you have left.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA

Was that wild weather caused by climate change? Scientists can now say 'yes' with confidence
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/08/world/extreme-weather-climate-change/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/business/tesla-autopilot-nhtsa.amp.html

Autopilot shenanigans probably soon to be kabbashed.  And it's a $10,000 add on feature...

Quote from: veeman on August 17, 2021, 08:07:33 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/08/16/business/tesla-autopilot-nhtsa.amp.html

Autopilot shenanigans probably soon to be kabbashed.  And it's a $10,000 add on feature...

My guess is that Tesla fixed the problem a while ago. But it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Quote from: Morris Minor on August 17, 2021, 09:03:02 AM
My guess is that Tesla fixed the problem a while ago. But it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Why would you assume Tesla "fixed" anything here? The original premise for how this works is broken.

The NY Times articles mentioned a few notable issues that the NHTSA is concerned about. 

The autopilot feature should perhaps only really be able to work on lane demarcated divided highways, which is what is required for GM's Super Cruise.  Not local roads, roads with pedestrians or bicyclists on the side, and not even roads with oncoming or cross traffic. Tesla you can use it most anywhere. 

The autopilot feature perhaps should have a way to monitor the driver's eyes to make sure they are paying attention to the road.  The Tesla only monitors that the driver's hands are touching the wheel. GM's Super Cruise uses an infrared camera to monitor driver's eyes.   

Tesla has difficulty detecting and braking for parked cars.

The Tesla AI maps out pedestrians, cross walks, traffic signals and everything else you run into on a daily basis.  So super cruise limitations don't apply here.

Also if autopilot needs human eye tracking, then manually driven cars should absolutely need the same.

Quote from: r0tor on August 18, 2021, 12:03:35 PM
The Tesla AI maps out pedestrians, cross walks, traffic signals and everything else you run into on a daily basis.  So super cruise limitations don't apply here.

Also if autopilot needs human eye tracking, then manually driven cars should absolutely need the same.

Not the moon.  Or overturned trucks.  Or emergency vehicles.

Quote from: MrH on August 18, 2021, 07:47:24 AM
Why would you assume Tesla "fixed" anything here? The original premise for how this works is broken.

They send out triggers to the fleet to pick up & relay back on the failed object detection & response  scenarios: first responder scenes in this case. These get reviewed, labeled & put into the learning heap. Once fixed they're rolled out to the vehicles.

It's not all Tesla though, e.g. of the four incidents this year, two drivers were arrested for DWI & one for driving on a suspended license.

How does the system know it's a failed object detection?  They wait for a crash to confirm they failed to recognize it, send out emergency crews to map it, and then update? 

The system logs manual overrides

Quote from: veeman on August 18, 2021, 09:16:47 AM
The NY Times articles mentioned a few notable issues that the NHTSA is concerned about. 

The autopilot feature should perhaps only really be able to work on lane demarcated divided highways, which is what is required for GM's Super Cruise.  Not local roads, roads with pedestrians or bicyclists on the side, and not even roads with oncoming or cross traffic. Tesla you can use it most anywhere. 

The autopilot feature perhaps should have a way to monitor the driver's eyes to make sure they are paying attention to the road.  The Tesla only monitors that the driver's hands are touching the wheel. GM's Super Cruise uses an infrared camera to monitor driver's eyes.   

Tesla has difficulty detecting and braking for parked cars.

Tesla's now putting in in-car cameras to keep an eye, so to speak, on drivers.

Again, I's be surprised if most of this has not already been fixed.
It's good that it's happening though because none of these systems is going anywhere until regulators see that they're proven two or three times safer than human drivers.

Quote from: MrH on August 18, 2021, 02:45:26 PM
How does the system know it's a failed object detection?  They wait for a crash to confirm they failed to recognize it, send out emergency crews to map it, and then update? 

Interventions and crashes.
Those failed scenarios are then pushed out to the fleet. So in this example it would be something "like look something similar to emergency responder scenes: flashing lights, vehicles across the road etc."
The fleet (every Tesla on the road), gets the memo. Those that come across something similar are triggered to send the events back in, where they're analyzed, labeled & run though the NN learning system. Rinse & repeat.
There's no mapping. When a Tesla comes across say an intersection, it has no map, or memory that it's come across it before.

seems like continually updated mapping would be awesome across a fleet. Would make the computer judgements even more informed.

How about that robot.

Quote from: Morris Minor on August 19, 2021, 09:39:03 AM
Interventions and crashes.
Those failed scenarios are then pushed out to the fleet. So in this example it would be something "like look something similar to emergency responder scenes: flashing lights, vehicles across the road etc."
The fleet (every Tesla on the road), gets the memo. Those that come across something similar are triggered to send the events back in, where they're analyzed, labeled & run though the NN learning system. Rinse & repeat.
There's no mapping. When a Tesla comes across say an intersection, it has no map, or memory that it's come across it before.

So we're supposed to let Tesla's, with their grainy cameras, crash into every "corner case" (of which they are infinite), until they figure it out?  How many people have to die to justify this madness?

Quote from: Rich on August 20, 2021, 12:42:51 PM
How about that robot.

Lol

Quote from: MrH on August 20, 2021, 01:39:46 PM
So we're supposed to let Tesla's, with their grainy cameras, crash into every "corner case" (of which they are infinite), until they figure it out?  How many people have to die to justify this madness?

Sort of like humans

The humanoid robot is whimsy at this stage.The camera images are synthesized into one. And yes it's an iterative machine learning process, but death & destruction are probably not part of the business plan. haha

This guy put together a shortened version of the presentation. I found one of the presenter's Indian English really hard to understand - not helped by nervous rapid speaking I'm guessing.
https://youtu.be/keWEE9FwS9o

Quote from: Rich on August 20, 2021, 12:42:51 PM
How about that robot.

HAHA!!!

MOTHERFUCK YES

https://venturebeat.com/2021/07/03/tesla-ai-chief-explains-why-self-driving-cars-dont-need-lidar/