The Drive liked the Hummer EV as well: https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/42599/2022-gmc-hummer-prototype-first-drive-review-electrification-creates-the-best-hummer-yet

I predict within the next decade a U.S. govt mandated acceleration/speed limit for EV vehicles which weigh beyond a certain threshold.  There will be much media hyped catastrophes because of these cars. 

Accelerates like a sports car, stops like a semi... Should be entertaining

Quote from: afty on October 05, 2021, 09:59:12 AM
The Drive liked the Hummer EV as well: https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/42599/2022-gmc-hummer-prototype-first-drive-review-electrification-creates-the-best-hummer-yet

Wow, GM went all out on that.

Reminds me of the excess of the '59 Caddys

9000 lbs. 1100 hp. JFC what is even going on at GM.

But I think that GM is smart enough to know that people by and large don't an EV that looks like a normal car (Bolt) from an established automaker, and a caricature or halo EV is their only hope to make any sort of headway.

The reviews have universal praise at least.

Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 05, 2021, 11:12:07 AM
Wow, GM went all out on that.

Reminds me of the excess of the '59 Caddys

These are literally almost 2 '59 Caddies.

In person, they don't look quite as big as that. Big, bit with clean lines.
Styling wise, they look better than most trucks.

But seriously; 10,000 lbs?

Quote from: SJ_GTI on October 05, 2021, 07:46:46 AM
All of these electric trucks/SUV's are really heavy though.

I wonder if that is going to mess up small neighborhood roads, bridges, etc...

Probably time to review/update the laws for people breaking weight limits and remind the public to pay attention     

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on October 06, 2021, 05:34:57 AM
I wonder if that is going to mess up small neighborhood roads, bridges, etc...

Probably time to review/update the laws for people breaking weight limits and remind the public to pay attention     

I would certainly not want something that heavy going in and out of my driveway everyday.

I don't think the Hummer is much different than most of these EVs:  they're all wild excess, super heavy, and crazy fast.  The Hummer is just a little more extreme and in your face about it

These aren't about saving the world.  They're cool toys for now for the most part.  I think Ford's EV plan is a much better idea than GMs currently.  Rivian is much more appealing to me than the Hummer too.  This vehicle gets a big "meh" from me.

I guess it all starts with playthings for the rich early on. The everyman products come as they figure out cutting costs.

Quote from: Soup DeVille on October 05, 2021, 07:34:50 PM
These are literally almost 2 '59 Caddies.

In person, they don't look quite as big as that. Big, bit with clean lines.
Styling wise, they look better than most trucks.

But seriously; 10,000 lbs?

But similar excess of the times. In the late 50's, sedans and coupes were popular and Cadillac took it to the extreme. Now trucks are popular, and EVs are popular, and Hummer took it to the extreme.

Luckily there are enough truck buyers with small penises... Or is that peni?

Quote from: MrH on October 06, 2021, 07:31:08 AM
I don't think the Hummer is much different than most of these EVs:  they're all wild excess, super heavy, and crazy fast.  The Hummer is just a little more extreme and in your face about it

These aren't about saving the world.  They're cool toys for now for the most part.  I think Ford's EV plan is a much better idea than GMs currently.  Rivian is much more appealing to me than the Hummer too.  This vehicle gets a big "meh" from me.

The thing is that the ridiculous speed and great handling are essentially free features the EV sedans. They lie dormant until the driver chooses to use them. The massive vehicles add big weight, big blindspots, super high grilles, those are externalities which everybody else is forced to put up with. Multiply them by the speed and... ugh.

There is an article about a Miata hitting a tow truck on the Nurburgring.
A Porsche had leaked coolant so it was slippery and impaired vision.

I am kinda scared of more bigger heavier trucks on the road. Little cars won't stand a chance when those big vehicle drivers have "first snow of the year syndrome"- they forget that the vehicle can't stop as fast as they expect (because acceleration is so good builds false expectations).

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37872385/nurburgring-pileup-kills-one/

Quote from: Laconian on October 06, 2021, 11:25:54 AM
The thing is that the ridiculous speed and great handling are essentially free features the EV sedans. They lie dormant until the driver chooses to use them. The massive vehicles add big weight, big blindspots, super high grilles, those are externalities which everybody else is forced to put up with. Multiply them by the speed and... ugh.

It's not "free".  This EV sedans are behemoths.  They're just wearing tighter clothing.

Quote from: MrH on October 06, 2021, 01:00:25 PM
It's not "free".  This EV sedans are behemoths.  They're just wearing tighter clothing.

It's the range (and corresponding increase in battery cell count) which makes them behemoths, not the speed?

Quote from: Laconian on October 06, 2021, 01:08:03 PM
It's the range (and corresponding increase in battery cell count) which makes them behemoths, not the speed?

Both.  You can't put 800 hp into an EV and pair it with a tiny battery and expect to get acceptable range.

Quote from: MrH on October 06, 2021, 01:29:37 PM
Both.  You can't put 800 hp into an EV and pair it with a tiny battery and expect to get acceptable range.

Sure you can? You can tap a fraction of the motor's potential and still remain very efficient. There's no way for a V12 to run efficiently. And range expectations always go out the window when you floor it, EV or ICE.

...ignoring the weight tax you have to pay to deal with that extra speed (big brakes, big tires, etc.)

Quote from: Laconian on October 06, 2021, 02:09:33 PM
Sure you can? You can tap a fraction of the motor's potential and still remain very efficient. There's no way for a V12 to run efficiently. And range expectations always go out the window when you floor it, EV or ICE.

Not related to range, but the power a battery can deliver is directly proportional to the size of the battery.  A small battery won't be able to deliver 800 hp.

Quote from: afty on October 06, 2021, 02:27:40 PM
Not related to range, but the power a battery can deliver is directly proportional to the size of the battery.  A small battery won't be able to deliver 800 hp.

I agree. My previous point was that range requirements probably dictate the battery size first and foremost. Allowing 300mi of range means you'll already likely have a big 70-80kWh battery. At that point, what's the marginal expense of adding big power?

Quote from: Laconian on October 06, 2021, 02:09:33 PM
Sure you can? You can tap a fraction of the motor's potential and still remain very efficient. There's no way for a V12 to run efficiently. And range expectations always go out the window when you floor it, EV or ICE.

You need massive amounts of batteries to dump power quickly.  But an 800 hp EV, where the range drops to 50 miles if you use half the available power once in awhile, isn't going to fly.

Quote from: MrH on October 06, 2021, 02:33:29 PM
You need massive amounts of batteries to dump power quickly.  But an 800 hp EV, where the range drops to 50 miles if you use half the available power once in awhile, isn't going to fly.

Didn't the Veyron run out of gas after 10 minutes?

Quote from: Laconian on October 06, 2021, 02:35:43 PM

Didn't the Veyron run out of gas after 10 minutes?

Yes.  But that's if you're running at 100% throttle.  Even short bursts would kill range.

But imagine the fuel pump and fuel tank size have to grow proportionately.  That's kind of the situation with EVs.

There are indeed caveats to these big EV power numbers - to get full battery juice the battery pack has to be within a very narrow temp window, which means most times the battery pack has to be conditioned for full output. There are vids out there of it taking upwards of 20 minutes for a max Model S launch. Second, the drive electronics and motors have to be able to handle the massive current draw. Third, in a matter of minutes at full power the EV cuts power to prevent battery and/or motor overheating.

True, most any of these inconveniences are a non-issue as most buyer won't drive their EVs in such a manner, but IMO this, and the other caricatures of automotive performances, still shows the inherently weak value proposition of EVs. As H says, Ford's approach looks to be different, but the so-called $40k F-150 EV s probably useless for the average retail buyer and more meant for fleet use in a confined area such as a corporate campus.

Relevant info
https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2021/10/05/renewable-energy-dominated-new-u-s-generating-capacity/

Hot nuclear mess...
https://news.yahoo.com/ex-ceo-oversaw-doomed-nuclear-052903490.html

New Maverick has a small battery but gets 40mpg, weighing 3500lbs. Better fuel economy than civic hybrid?!?!

I really like this upcoming BMW i4

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-bmw-i4-m50-electric-sedan-first-drive-review/

I'm in London. Have seen my first ID3, and this e-tron.
NHTSA needs to stop prevaricating and change rules in the US to allow alternatives to mirrors. Maybe the International Fraternal Order of Rearview Mirror Technicians also has the Dems in a headlock.