Quote from: afty on June 01, 2022, 03:08:53 PM
BTW the Bolt just got a $6k price cut: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/01/gm-slashes-prices-of-chevy-bolt-evs-despite-rising-commodity-costs.html

That sounds like a deal!

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 01, 2022, 02:56:06 PM
AC reduces ICE range too.

i3 is just crappy with low range. Get a Chevy with 250 miles of range

Not by much, at least in modern ICEs. A few days ago I left Munich with a 45% full fuel tank about 333 km of range. Drove a total of 241 km that day - with the A/C on - had an end range of 168 km (with the remaining fuel in the tank) when I arrived back in Munich and according to my eco score increased my range by 65 km+. My driving including about 10% city traffic, 40% Autobahn (cruised between 140/150 km/h with the occasional stint into the 180 km/h region) and mountainous country roads with a lot of braking and accelerating. Start-Stop didn't work due to the A/C being on on a high setting.

Modern ICEs are so efficient. 

Yeah, the i3S has a crappy battery and modern EVs probably due better there, but sporty driving and A/C usage will still decrease their battery charge like a rock.

Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 02, 2022, 07:54:45 AM
Not by much, at least in modern ICEs. A few days ago I left Munich with a 45% full fuel tank about 333 km of range. Drove a total of 241 km that day - with the A/C on - had an end range of 168 km (with the remaining fuel in the tank) when I arrived back in Munich and according to my eco score increased my range by 65 km+. My driving including about 10% city traffic, 40% Autobahn (cruised between 140/150 km/h with the occasional stint into the 180 km/h region) and mountainous country roads with a lot of braking and accelerating. Start-Stop didn't work due to the A/C being on on a high setting.

Modern ICEs are so efficient. 

Yeah, the i3S has a crappy battery and modern EVs probably due better there, but sporty driving and A/C usage will still decrease their battery charge like a rock.

I don't think it's enough to be noticible since I always have my AC on.

Quote from: NomisR on June 02, 2022, 08:30:32 AM
I don't think it's enough to be noticible since I always have my AC on.

With battery technology improving I believe this won't really be an issue in the future - except for those small essentially city-car EVs and their smaller batteries. Those will be a compromise design and a lot of eco extremists here are demanding that future cars should be small EVs with small batteries with a pathetic short range.

Birgit and her BMW i3S drive mainly in the city, but sometimes she visits her brother near in Ansbach near Augsburg which is 106 km away from Munich. Despite a 225 km range on full charge, she says she still needs to crawl at 90 km/h on the highway (without A/C) to keep her battery charge and short range up. In my ICE car, I can set my A/C to blower speed 4/5 out of 7 and cruise at 140/150 km/h and still achieve a fuel economy of under 7 liters per 100 km.

I just don't see the advantage of having a current EV, especially a small one with a small battery.

The i3 equivalent in the ICE world in a 1980s Ford Escort with 80hp... and back then turning the AC on had a drastic effect on your range

Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 02, 2022, 10:18:38 AM
With battery technology improving I believe this won't really be an issue in the future - except for those small essentially city-car EVs and their smaller batteries. Those will be a compromise design and a lot of eco extremists here are demanding that future cars should be small EVs with small batteries with a pathetic short range.

Birgit and her BMW i3S drive mainly in the city, but sometimes she visits her brother near in Ansbach near Augsburg which is 106 km away from Munich. Despite a 225 km range on full charge, she says she still needs to crawl at 90 km/h on the highway (without A/C) to keep her battery charge and short range up. In my ICE car, I can set my A/C to blower speed 4/5 out of 7 and cruise at 140/150 km/h and still achieve a fuel economy of under 7 liters per 100 km.

I just don't see the advantage of having a current EV, especially a small one with a small battery.

One with a small battery is not worth it.  Something with a 300+ miles of range is the way to go.  I didn't realize how big my car is until I was driving next to a 2000s 5 series.. it's basically the same size.

AC has a negligible effect on range.  Heat has a larger effect, but is mitigated with a heat pump. 

Quote from: r0tor on June 02, 2022, 10:18:53 AM
The i3 equivalent in the ICE world in a 1980s Ford Escort with 80hp... and back then turning the AC on had a drastic effect on your range

Range? Meh.
1/4-mile time? Doubled.

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on June 02, 2022, 12:21:31 PM
Range? Meh.
1/4-mile time? Doubled.

#priorities

Also costs almost 10x as much new..

The Lightning is fast: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40120063/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-tested-acceleration/

Quote from: afty on June 02, 2022, 01:16:04 PM
The Lightning is fast: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40120063/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-tested-acceleration/

Neat how it squats first.

Quote from: FoMoJo on June 02, 2022, 02:29:21 PM
Neat how it squats first.

It's not going to be allowed in South Carolina now..

Quote from: heelntoe on June 01, 2022, 10:44:18 PM
That sounds like a deal!

I think GM is going to disappear.

Quote from: giant_mtb on June 01, 2022, 03:36:00 PM
Not a bad idea, if they market those vehicles properly and get a bunch of sales from it.  Basically just banking (literally) that the smaller price will get more people into the GM EV ecosystem and then most of those customers stay there in the future.

Didn't work the first time, and probably won't work the second time.

WtP buy Tesla, not EVs.

I'm pretty set on the Lightning being my next vehicle.  Even though it's expensive as hell, it's such a versatile package it's hard to justify any other EV.

The Bolt price cut is interesting.  If I could snag a Bolt EUV with super cruise for near what the Outback is worth, I could do it for a year or two and just rack up the gas savings until a Lightning becomes available for me, but that's probably too much of a headache.

I'll most likely just end up eating $300/month in gas until my turn for a Lightning happens

Quote from: GoCougs on June 02, 2022, 08:22:31 PM
Didn't work the first time, and probably won't work the second time.

WtP buy Tesla, not EVs.

GM EVs are actually not bad though.  They're one of the best driving EVs out there.  It does everything a normal ICE can do and if it's priced like an ICE, it could sell pretty well.   My friend who now has an i4 on order, may end up getting the Bolt with the price cut if they're available before the i4. 

My Miata is apparently worth a lot now? I'm actually wondering about that Bolt.

Spirited driving is a pain in the ass now. The exurbs are getting built up and I have to drive like an hour and a half to get to a halfway decent road. And interstate driving is a more sociopathic environment than ever. I blame the Californian carpetbaggers

Quote from: Laconian on June 03, 2022, 02:44:02 PM
My Miata is apparently worth a lot now? I'm actually wondering about that Bolt.

Spirited driving is a pain in the ass now. The exurbs are getting built up and I have to drive like an hour and a half to get to a halfway decent road. And interstate driving is a more sociopathic environment than ever. I blame the Californian carpetbaggers

I miss Kentucky. Turning left out of my neighborhood was a bunch of fun twisty roads

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 03, 2022, 06:36:29 PM
I miss Kentucky. Turning left out of my neighborhood was a bunch of fun twisty roads

Left out of my driveway is a fun, twisty road. Right is to town, but another immediate right is more fun, twisty roads. As long as it's not rush hour, traffic is light. Good driving around here

GM had no choice but to steeply cut the price of the Bolt or just get rid of it.  It uses older battery technology and GM doesn't qualify any longer for the federal EV tax subsidy.  Who would pay 30 plus grand for a relatively dated EV which doesn't turn any heads? The new Kia EV starts at 41 grand and you can still get a $7500 tax credit. 

GM maybe screwed up with the new Hummer EV.  It's too expensive, especially in the current economy (high APR).  The Ford Lightning starts at $40 grand and the Hummer EV is basically twice that (or more) cost.

Quote from: veeman on June 03, 2022, 07:45:02 PM
GM had no choice but to steeply cut the price of the Bolt or just get rid of it.  It uses older battery technology and GM doesn't qualify any longer for the federal EV tax subsidy.  Who would pay 30 plus grand for a relatively dated EV which doesn't turn any heads? The new Kia EV starts at 41 grand and you can still get a $7500 tax credit. 

GM maybe screwed up with the new Hummer EV.  It's too expensive, especially in the current economy (high APR).  The Ford Lightning starts at $40 grand and the Hummer EV is basically twice that (or more) cost.

I see the Hummer EV as more of a proof of concept/halo car and the technology will trickle down to lower-priced models.

Quote from: Laconian on June 03, 2022, 02:44:02 PM
My Miata is apparently worth a lot now? I'm actually wondering about that Bolt.

Spirited driving is a pain in the ass now. The exurbs are getting built up and I have to drive like an hour and a half to get to a halfway decent road. And interstate driving is a more sociopathic environment than ever. I blame the Californian carpetbaggers

I messed up when I bought my Miata. I didn't see the accident it had on its Carfax, so apparently, it's worth next to nothing now. I'm considering the Bolt, too. Some dealers still have 2022 models on the lot, but they're not willing to play ball on the price. One didn't even know about the price cut on 2023s. I'm seeing that June 9th is when orders for the 2023 open though, so keeping an eye on it until then.

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 03, 2022, 06:36:29 PM
I miss Kentucky. Turning left out of my neighborhood was a bunch of fun twisty roads

How do you like the seats on your Bolt? That's the one thing I'm a little concerned about.

I know I've said this before but I did six months of Atlanta-traffic-hell commuting in a Prius. It was the perfect appliance car for crawling in queues. Supremely comfortable cloth seats, great climate control, and, importantly, calm & relaxing. Modern EVs have taken this crown, perfect for sitting in traffic.

Quote from: giant_mtb on June 03, 2022, 07:46:53 PM
I see the Hummer EV as more of a proof of concept/halo car and the technology will trickle down to lower-priced models.

What does it prove - if might have set a record for least efficient EV passenger vehicle in 100 years

Quote from: heelntoe on June 04, 2022, 12:46:13 AM
I messed up when I bought my Miata. I didn't see the accident it had on its Carfax, so apparently, it's worth next to nothing now. I'm considering the Bolt, too. Some dealers still have 2022 models on the lot, but they're not willing to play ball on the price. One didn't even know about the price cut on 2023s. I'm seeing that June 9th is when orders for the 2023 open though, so keeping an eye on it until then.
How do you like the seats on your Bolt? That's the one thing I'm a little concerned about.

The seats on the previous generation Bolts were absolutely horrible and I would not wish it upon my enemy.  I've heard the news ones are much better but never tried them myself so I can't compare. 

Quote from: r0tor on June 04, 2022, 07:53:27 AM
What does it prove - if might have set a record for least efficient EV passenger vehicle in 100 years

Halo car + a lot of technology stuff that could trickle down.. and hoping people that were buying shit like Rivian would buy this.

Quote from: NomisR on June 04, 2022, 11:32:29 AM
The seats on the previous generation Bolts were absolutely horrible and I would not wish it upon my enemy.  I've heard the news ones are much better but never tried them myself so I can't compare. 

Yep, this is what I've heard as well. I guess I have to test drive a new model to see for myself how the new seats are.

My 2017 seats suck. I think by 2019 they improved and then the refresh is definitely better

Quote from: NomisR on June 04, 2022, 11:33:04 AM
Halo car + a lot of technology stuff that could trickle down.. and hoping people that were buying shit like Rivian would buy this.

Tech stuff like what?  A horribly inefficient EV that takes an eternity to recharge?   Rear wheel steer that has been around since the 90s?

There is nothing halo about this.  It's a pig built for the brodozer crowd