Quote from: Catman on November 27, 2006, 07:28:23 PM
The Goodyear snows they put on the police cars are horrible.  Ultragrips or something.

lol, so much for C/D's report then...hacks.

Quote from: ifcar on November 27, 2006, 03:40:53 PM
Of course not. This is what they said:

"Introducing the 328xi Coupe, the only coupe in its class to offer xDrive all-wheel drive."

This is what that means:

"None of the 328xi's competitors offer BMW's all-wheel-drive system."

The Audi TT is the only coupe in its class  to offer Quattro all-wheel drive, but both cars have it.

I meant from the 3 series lineup

I almost bought a G35 sedan, but the day after my test drive, it snowed and I was reminded why I liked my quattro.  Sure, you can get around in RWD, but no matter what anyone says, you can get around better with AWD.  I need to drive even when it's snowing, thanks to my business, so "next best" wasn't good enough.  The G35 with 300 hp, even tamed with traction control, would be a lively beast to take out in the snow.  Even the Infiniti salesman had to admit the G35x would be a better choice, but didn't come with a manual tranny, so that killed my deal.

Quote from: saxonyron on November 27, 2006, 10:10:31 PM
Sure, you can get around in RWD, but no matter what anyone says, you can get around better with AWD.

Well, that's certainly true.  You should have gotten a WRX!

Yeah, you can get aroud BETTER with AWD, but it's far from necessary.



I have to drive every day, too, and snow didn't negatively affect me driving this car, other than making it filthy. And yeah, the Rangie will be better, but it's more for towing things than being able to get around in snow (and for getting people out of snowbanks in the winter...)

Your Jag looks a bit chilly.

Quote from: omicron on November 28, 2006, 07:38:56 AM
Your Jag looks a bit chilly.

it was happier there than it had been a few hours earlier:

I think I need to hug it overnight to keep it warm.

is that an ice cream truck?

In my opinion, the biggest winter driving improvement made in the last 40 years was the radial tire. A mediocre all-season radial made today has awesome grip in the snow compared with the very best bias-ply snow tires of the past.

My RWD Ranger does just fine on snow when equipped with an all-terrain type tire. The all-season tires it came with gripped well the first winter and deteriorated from there.

Get good rubber, don't drive like an asshole, and you should do fine regardless of which or how many wheels you have driving the vehicle.

Quote from: ChrisV on November 28, 2006, 07:21:53 AM
Yeah, you can get aroud BETTER with AWD, but it's far from necessary.

That's also certainly true.

Snow tires and she'll be fine.

Why does everyone think that RWD + Snow = Worst case scenario?  The worst car I ever had for winter was a 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, which is FWD.  Besides my truck the best winter car I have owned was my 1996 Mustang GT.  Winter tires (Hankook W401 are the best I have ever had...yes even better then the Blizzaks I had on the same car) are a must.  It was lowered 1.5", had no traction control, stability control, ABS, or any other electronic nanny, and I got around just fine.  In fact better then the FWD cars with all-season tires were.  FWD especially sucks when going around icy corners and you step on the gas, because the car just starts plowing straight ahead and stops turning, whereas a RWD car will kick the rear end out a bit and get around the corner better. 

Quote from: Nebtek2002 on November 28, 2006, 09:10:33 AM
don't drive like an asshole,

That's asking a LOT from many drivers out there...

Quote from: HEMI666 on November 28, 2006, 11:13:24 AM
Snow tires and she'll be fine.

Why does everyone think that RWD + Snow = Worst case scenario? The worst car I ever had for winter was a 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, which is FWD. Besides my truck the best winter car I have owned was my 1996 Mustang GT. Winter tires (Hankook W401 are the best I have ever had...yes even better then the Blizzaks I had on the same car) are a must. It was lowered 1.5", had no traction control, stability control, ABS, or any other electronic nanny, and I got around just fine. In fact better then the FWD cars with all-season tires were. FWD especially sucks when going around icy corners and you step on the gas, because the car just starts plowing straight ahead and stops turning, whereas a RWD car will kick the rear end out a bit and get around the corner better.

Yep, my FWD Honda positively sucks in the snow.  I'd rather have my old Ford Ranger 2WD (it was 4WD, but Ford's damn electrically actuated transfer case just blows) than a lightweight FWD car.  My 1988 Bonneville was a great winter car, it was so heavy that it just went wherever you pointed it.


Honda Civics without snow tires are just worthless POS's in the snow though.

Quote from: ChrisV on November 28, 2006, 07:21:53 AM
I have to drive every day, too, and snow didn't negatively affect me driving this car, other than making it filthy. And yeah, the Rangie will be better, but it's more for towing things than being able to get around in snow (and for getting people out of snowbanks in the winter...)

Beautiful car, Chris. We have one around here somewhere in immaculate condition.

You used to have an XJ6 coupe, right?

Quote from: HEMI666 on November 28, 2006, 11:13:24 AM
Snow tires and she'll be fine.

Why does everyone think that RWD + Snow = Worst case scenario?? The worst car I ever had for winter was a 2000 Pontiac Sunfire, which is FWD.? Besides my truck the best winter car I have owned was my 1996 Mustang GT.? Winter tires (Hankook W401 are the best I have ever had...yes even better then the Blizzaks I had on the same car) are a must.? It was lowered 1.5", had no traction control, stability control, ABS, or any other electronic nanny, and I got around just fine.? In fact better then the FWD cars with all-season tires were.? FWD especially sucks when going around icy corners and you step on the gas, because the car just starts plowing straight ahead and stops turning, whereas a RWD car will kick the rear end out a bit and get around the corner better.?

And again, no one is saying RWD isn't doable, simply that AWD is much better suited for foul weather driving.

When I had my Z3 I drove it year-round with summer tires, and never got stuck and never got into an accident. But...I had to be a lot more careful where I went even here in NJ where we don't get that much snow. Its also flat as a board here (NJ is basically a big sand bar after all  ).

In the context of this thread I think AWD is a reasonable consideration, especially considering the choices. Its not like we are saying she needs to go out and buy a Hummer H1, but if she has the choice of getting AWD (Audi TT or 328xi)...I think its worth going for it.

Quote from: Catman on November 27, 2006, 07:28:23 PM
The Goodyear snows they put on the police cars are horrible.? Ultragrips or something.

Good to know

Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 28, 2006, 01:37:18 PM
And again, no one is saying RWD isn't doable, simply that AWD is much better suited for foul weather driving.

When I had my Z3 I drove it year-round with summer tires, and never got stuck and never got into an accident. But...I had to be a lot more careful where I went even here in NJ where we don't get that much snow. Its also flat as a board here (NJ is basically a big sand bar after all ).

In the context of this thread I think AWD is a reasonable consideration, especially considering the choices. Its not like we are saying she needs to go out and buy a Hummer H1, but if she has the choice of getting AWD (Audi TT or 328xi)...I think its worth going for it.

I agree - don't forget, the premise of this discussion is what would be best for his mom to buy.  Not what would you prefer.  I think you would all be very bad sons if you convinced your mom to buy a RWD car and wish her well in a snow storm.    I've driven plenty of RWD cars in the snow.  I know just how they react and handle.  AWD is the better option.  Not a necessary option, just a better one. 

Quote from: saxonyron on November 28, 2006, 04:55:36 PM
I agree - don't forget, the premise of this discussion is what would be best for his mom to buy.  Not what would you prefer.  I think you would all be very bad sons if you convinced your mom to buy a RWD car and wish her well in a snow storm. 

To be fair the original post said:

"she is looking to get a rwd coupe.  She really likes the 350z and g35 coupe, but she is unsure about using the car in the winter."

With proper snow tires, it isn't an issue. Thus we answered the question.

If we were discussing personal preferences, I'd have responded with "buy a $500 beater for winter" as you don't have to care about what happens to it, or how much salt gets on it, etc. Slap some good winter tires on it and go. When it's nice, drive the nice car, when it's not, drive the beater. Insurance is nothing (and could actually be less due to having multiple car discounts), and you don't have to garage it. That's better than an AWD compromise for the rest of the year, and the new car you're making payments on doesn't get all salted up in the winter.

Quote from: Raza on November 28, 2006, 12:31:16 PM
You used to have an XJ6 coupe, right?

Me? No. I want one. I've had a couple of the sedans, however.

Quote from: ChrisV on November 29, 2006, 07:48:22 AM
Me? No. I want one. I've had a couple of the sedans, however.

I could swear that you had a BRG XJ6 coupe...

Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 28, 2006, 01:37:18 PM
And again, no one is saying RWD isn't doable, simply that AWD is much better suited for foul weather driving.

When I had my Z3 I drove it year-round with summer tires, and never got stuck and never got into an accident. But...I had to be a lot more careful where I went even here in NJ where we don't get that much snow. Its also flat as a board here (NJ is basically a big sand bar after all ).

I mentioned in another thread that a few years ago I bought what I thought was an AWD car that turned out to be just RWD.  I bought it specifically for Jersey's relatively mild inclement winter weather.  I didn't realize my mistake for four months until I tried digging out of a snowdrift.  It handled snow and ice and rain just fine.  Obviously not as well as a car with AWD could have, but it worked well enough.  But I wouldn't recomend trying it if you get more than a few inches with every snowstorm.

Quote from: ChrisV on November 29, 2006, 07:48:22 AM
Me? No. I want one. I've had a couple of the sedans, however.

How do they look on the used market?

Quote from: Raza on November 29, 2006, 09:02:40 AM
How do they look on the used market?

Cheap, cheap, and cheap. Especially the Series III cars like mine. Easy to work on, strong engines, but problematic fuel systems (dual tanks and multiple solenoids to supply fuel), and the issue of major rust on eastern cars (that black one I pictured looked good cleaned up, but was so rusty on the bottom it was coming apart at the seams underneath).

Comfy and classy, however, and easily swapped to GM engines that give you GM alternators and starters, too...

Quote from: Nebtek2002 on November 28, 2006, 09:10:33 AM
In my opinion, the biggest winter driving improvement made in the last 40 years was the radial tire.

40 years?
some folks had them a couple of decades before that 


(ah, will the world ever really catch up ...)

The first winter storm system is moving in here tonight/tomorrow, so I'll enjoy watching the idiots who can't drive slide around.... as long as they don't hit me.

On second thought, let them hit me, I'll get a different car.

Quote from: thewizard16 on November 29, 2006, 02:00:59 PM
The first winter storm system is moving in here tonight/tomorrow, so I'll enjoy watching the idiots who can't drive slide around.... as long as they don't hit me.

On second thought, let them hit me, I'll get a different car.

There's winter in Arkansas?? ?

Quote from: 850CSi on November 29, 2006, 02:02:30 PM
There's winter in Arkansas?   

Haha... Northern Arkansas, yes. Northwest Arkansas in particular. We always get slammed with ice and sleet, and occasionally we're lucky enough to get some real snow. I happen to by lucky enough to live in Northwest Arkansas, so I get to see winter weather every year. It isn't what I remember/miss from Iowa though.

Quote from: ChrisV on November 29, 2006, 01:00:48 PM
Cheap, cheap, and cheap. Especially the Series III cars like mine. Easy to work on, strong engines, but problematic fuel systems (dual tanks and multiple solenoids to supply fuel), and the issue of major rust on eastern cars (that black one I pictured looked good cleaned up, but was so rusty on the bottom it was coming apart at the seams underneath).

Comfy and classy, however, and easily swapped to GM engines that give you GM alternators and starters, too...

My parents had an 86 XJ6.  The engine died with 86 miles on the clock...then with 3000 miles.

It was sexy as hell, and glorious to drive, but was about as reliable as a politicians word of honor.