Quote from: HEMI666 on September 21, 2007, 07:14:35 PM
I don't se very many other manufacturers making that same mistake.  most get it right the first time, and if they don't, they fix it the second time.  GM hasn't got it right yet. 

How many years has the Viper been searing it's owners calves?

Quote from: sandertheshark on September 21, 2007, 07:19:04 PM
How many years has the Viper been searing it's owners calves?

Touche!  Still handling in a sports car should be the top priority and GM never gets it right with the Z06.  Maybe they should ditch that transverse leaf and work with a system that is more easily tuned.

Quote from: HEMI666 on September 21, 2007, 05:06:04 PM
They should get it right the first time in a car like that.

Leaf springs.

Quote from: HEMI666 on September 21, 2007, 07:21:09 PM
Maybe they should ditch that transverse leaf and work with a system that is more easily tuned.

Perhaps.

Quote from: HEMI666 on September 21, 2007, 07:21:09 PM
Touche!  Still handling in a sports car should be the top priority and GM never gets it right with the Z06.  Maybe they should ditch that transverse leaf and work with a system that is more easily tuned.

I dunno, I think GM eventually got it pretty right with the C5 Z06.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=56&page_number=4

"The Z06 was obviously developed at a racetrack as the braking and handling are really well tuned. It encouraged me to push it hard very quickly. The harder this car is pushed, the better it behaves," Steve commented.

For me, the Z06 was easiest to hustle around the track simply because it behaved so predictably. Keep all inputs smooth and the Z06 will not get you in trouble. Because of logistics I logged only one timed lap in the Z06, but it was still good enough to be my best of the day. The car did feel significantly heavier through corners than the others, but its balance remained neutral, and the tail wasn't as eager to swing around."


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0306_2003_chevrolet_corvette_z06/

"The Z06's performance-oriented Z51 suspension provides Krazy-Glue-like grip in the corners, yet offers a more than tolerable ride on most types of road surfaces, thanks to sufficient wheel travel and well-tuned damping rates. The Active Handling helps keep even the most inexperienced driver going in his intended direction, but push the deactivation button, downshift to second, and the 400 lb-ft of torque will allow this long-nose patriot to slip its tail out like Grandma on an icy sidewalk. Proper steering input corrects the oversteer, and off you go, with a big grin on your face."


http://www.caranddriver.com/features/7004/suspensions-of-disbelief-page2.html

"If the three targas are apples, the Z06 is a kumquat?a go-kart among grand tourers. Its steering response is so much quicker it's hard to believe the ratio is the same. Its weight is within 141 pounds of the others, yet it feels like hundreds less. Its structure also feels twice as rigid. Yes, it filters out less road noise and harshness, but at least each bump is felt just once, with far less reverberation than in the other cars. Grip is astonishing, but these wide paws tend to wander a bit along pavement ruts. This chassis is also exceptionally well tuned to the active-handling system's competitive-driving mode, which allowed us to set and hold just enough rear-end drift to point the car perfectly between events on the autocross course. The Z06 is clearly the car that best rewards expert driving."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=89505/pageId=46008

"As impressive as its stats are on paper, feeling those numbers come to life on a challenging road course is the true manifestation of the Z06's brilliance. The Viper may be a tad faster, the Mustang a bit easier to fling around, but neither can even touch the Corvette when it comes to inspiring confidence to push the limits."

I don't know why everyone is suddenly pretending they are an engineering expert for suspensions and automatically blaming the transverse leaf springs as being hard to tune.  Most of the suspension problems with the 2001 Z06's have been related to shock tuning, rather than spring rates.  The 2004 Z06 differed from the 2002 model in the shock tuning.

All this prejudice against transverse leaf springs is just silly. None of us are experts on suspension tuning or leaf springs to really say if they are easier or harder to tune. The reason why GM's suspension tuning doesn't seem as good out of the gate is simply because they don't put enough time or effort into it.  We've seen the GTR, new NSX, new LF-A pounding the Ring for years now.  How many Z06's did we see there?  The first Z06's on the Ring were seen so near to its release date that people were convinced it was the Blue devil running there instead.  Tuning a car's suspension is a fine art that requires many delicate man hours and patience, two of the things it seems us Americans lack the most.  We love loading up on awesome hardware, but we don't like to sweat the details.  The reason why the Z06's suspension tuning isn't some inherent flaw in the technology.  It's the same reason why the Solstice doesn't handle as well as a Miata.  The same reason why the CTS and STS aren't as good as their import rivals despite packing the same technology.  The same reason why the Aura isn't as good as an Accord.  The reason why Corvette's don't handle as well as Porsche is the same reason why any GM product doesn't do quite as well as some import rival.

The explanation for the Z06's tuning shortcomings is the same explanation for any of GM's many many shortcomings in these years, execution. 

Quote from: HEMI666 on September 21, 2007, 07:14:35 PM
I don't se very many other manufacturers making that same mistake.  most get it right the first time, and if they don't, they fix it the second time.  GM hasn't got it right yet.

That's the only response your post warrants.

No matter how good the ZR-1 is the automotive world WILL find something to complain about.Since the interior has been fixed it will be floppy seats (WTF)or its hard to handle at the limit.Hell how many 500-600hp (stock)cars are easy to handle at the high limits they achieve?

Trep, you need to take those spyshots down now.  You do not have permission to use them from Brenda Priddy.  She can have this site shut down in a matter of minutes. 

Quote from: CJ on September 21, 2007, 10:09:51 PM
Trep, you need to take those spyshots down now.  You do not have permission to use them from Brenda Priddy.  She can have this site shut down in a matter of minutes. 

Are you sure?
Still, to be safe i'd take them down.

Yes, I am sure.

Quote from: HEMI666 on September 21, 2007, 07:14:35 PM
I don't se very many other manufacturers making that same mistake.  most get it right the first time, and if they don't, they fix it the second time.  GM hasn't got it right yet. 

You mean like the Mustang II?

Quote from: Lebowski on September 21, 2007, 07:28:17 AM
Considering the $75k Z06 is already a vastly superior all around vehicle than the shitbox Viper, I don't see why they need to price this in-line with the Viper.  It's a different car.

While I understand your love for the Corvette, I don't think it's fair to say the Viper is a "shitbox". It's a different kind of car for a different person, and is a fine vehicle in it's own right.

Quote from: sandertheshark on September 21, 2007, 07:05:07 PM
Nobody does anything right the first time.

I do. 

Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on September 21, 2007, 09:40:12 PM
No matter how good the ZR-1 is the automotive world WILL find something to complain about.Since the interior has been fixed it will be floppy seats (WTF)or its hard to handle at the limit.Hell how many 500-600hp (stock)cars are easy to handle at the high limits they achieve?

Floppy seats can be VERY annoying.  Don't underestimate them.

Quote from: CJ on September 21, 2007, 10:09:51 PM
Trep, you need to take those spyshots down now.  You do not have permission to use them from Brenda Priddy.  She can have this site shut down in a matter of minutes. 

Who the hell is brenda priddy?

I'll sue her if she comes after us!  I'm itching to sue someone!

Quote from: sandertheshark on September 21, 2007, 07:05:07 PM
Nobody does anything right the first time.

Tell me about it.

That bruise on my first girlfriend's belly button lasted for weeks.

Quote from: sandertheshark on September 21, 2007, 07:05:07 PM
Nobody does anything right the first time.

I just farted for the first time all day, and I think I did a pretty good job of it.

Brenda Priddy is the lady who takes spy shots for a living.  She'll sue your ass for copyright infringement.

I don't know why, but new Corvettes just don't excite me at all, never have. I'd love me a later-model C3, though.

Quote from: CJ on September 21, 2007, 10:28:35 PM
Brenda Priddy is the lady who takes spy shots for a living.  She'll sue your ass for copyright infringement.

I'll counter-sue, and bury her in paperwork!

Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 21, 2007, 10:23:55 PM
Tell me about it.

That bruise on my first girlfriend's belly button lasted for weeks.

Good one! Was it any fun that way?

Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 21, 2007, 10:12:26 PM
You mean like the Mustang II?

The first year of the Mustang II, the Mustang didn't have a V8 engine, but Ford fixed that in the second year.  I don't consider the Mustang II a mistake either.  It got the car back to a compact chassis and light weight.The car never grew to those rediculous pre-Mustang II dimensions again.  The Mustang II may have been ugly, but it was actually a decent car.

Quote from: Submariner on September 21, 2007, 11:14:25 PM
I'll counter-sue, and bury her in paperwork!

More likely, it would be the other way around.

Quote from: HEMI666 on September 22, 2007, 08:40:43 AM
More likely, it would be the other way around.

I'm barely in law school.  Just let me pretend I have a shot.

Well, if this woman can shut down the site, I suggest a mod remove the pictures if Trep isn't here to do it.

Quote from: HEMI666 on September 22, 2007, 08:40:01 AM
The first year of the Mustang II, the Mustang didn't have a V8 engine, but Ford fixed that in the second year.  I don't consider the Mustang II a mistake either.  It got the car back to a compact chassis and light weight.The car never grew to those rediculous pre-Mustang II dimensions again.  The Mustang II may have been ugly, but it was actually a decent car.

Park an '05 next to a '72 Mustang, and tell me which is larger.

Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 22, 2007, 02:11:20 PM
Park an '05 next to a '72 Mustang, and tell me which is larger.

Ummmmmm, yeah....the '05 is shorter then the '72, but every other dimension is nearly identical........but the '05 looks smaller.

Quote from: HEMI666 on September 23, 2007, 08:46:17 AM
Ummmmmm, yeah....the '05 is shorter then the '72, but every other dimension is nearly identical........but the '05 looks smaller.

By what, half an inch? And its heavier, and over 4 inches taller...

(it is a more attraactive shape though)

Quote from: HEMI666 on September 21, 2007, 07:21:09 PM
Touche!  Still handling in a sports car should be the top priority and GM never gets it right with the Z06.  Maybe they should ditch that transverse leaf and work with a system that is more easily tuned.

In the first Viper, the steering wheel was really just for show, to be fair.

Quote from: Soup DeVille on September 23, 2007, 02:17:29 PM
By what, half an inch? And its heavier, and over 4 inches taller...

(it is a more attraactive shape though)

It's 6" shorter then the '73 Mustang.