New engine into the SVT Contour - questions

[the Teuton]

Can you use the 2.5 heads on the 3.5 motor?  If so = 

[SVT_Power]

Okay i need a detailed instruction of what needs to be swapped between the SVT engine and the 3.0L engine so that I can tell the mechanic exactly since he said he'll put whatever parts I want into the new engine (without charge i think).

[SVT_Power]

I know that's alot to ask for but Chris is it possible for you to give me a detailed list (without using ETC)

[ChrisV]

I posted the link that explained it all.

http://www.geocities.com/svt_mondeo/3L.html

Email that guy, as he's done it.

Swap all the 2.5L parts to the 3L block including the timing chain cover, oil pan and pickup tube. New head bolts, head gaskets from 3L engine, 2.5L timing chain cover gaskets (3) and oil pan gaskets are needed. Also the oil/water cooler has to be pulled from the 2.5L if from a SVT engine. Also use your car's ECU, harness and fuel system.

Only 99 (mine had a build date of late 98) and newer Duratecs from a Taurus will correctly connect to a MTX75.

The crank has to be ground down a little to make room for the MTX75 input shaft.

In the rear one of the alignment dowels has to be moved from its location to another hole to help align the installment of the MTX75 tranny. Also some of the oil and water return holes on the 2.5 L head will not align correctly with the 3L gasket and has to be "port matched". Easily done when using the 3 liter head gaskets to line up the holes.

[SVT_Power]

im not sure whether i can get it right and make the 3L work at this point.

The 2.5L is alot simplier in terms of swapping parts and making it work right?

[ChrisV]

Well, you'll be swapping most of the same parts to put a 2.5 liter long or short block in. the SVT heads are ported, and of course they hold the hi performance SVT cams, so you want to use the heads again. You wouldn't have to swap oil pans, though but that's a small job and a minor concern. you want to swap over the SVT flywheel, too, as it's lighter than the regular 2.5 unit (and the 3 liter never had a flywheel, as they were all backed by automatics). And you want to swap over the SVT intake and MAF anyhow, regardless of 3.0 or 2.5.

[SVT_Power]

I called the guy who said he'll do it for $1200 and talked to him about the mods that need to be done to make the hybrid 3L and he said he won't do it. But he'll swap the valve covers, SVT heads, and abit of other stuff into the non-SVT 2.5L engine for a couple of hundred dollars more

[SVT_Power]

is it a big job to swap over the flywheel?

[ChrisV]

Then that's your best bet. He only has to find a good short block, which will be cheaper. And since the engine has to be out already to do the bottom end swap, bolting on the other flywheel is cake. Just a couple bolts.

[SVT_Power]

well now that he wants $1500 + tax for the new 2.5L with some of the SVT parts in it, it puts the total basically at the same level as that other place who quoted me 1500-2000 for a lower end rebuild. If it costed me the same, I'd go for the rebuild obviously over a 2.5L swap

[SVT_Power]

so here is the list of what i need transferred to the non-SVT 2.5L if i do the swap:

valve covers
lower & upper intake manifolds
fuel injectors
heads
flywheel

what else am i missing

[ChrisV]

so here is the list of what i need transferred to the non-SVT 2.5L if i do the swap:

valve covers
lower & upper intake manifolds
fuel injectors
heads
flywheel

what else am i missing

Oil/water cooler from the SVT, MAF, but that's about it.

I still think that the rebuild of what you have shouldn't be anywhere near $1500-2000. It seems really steep.

[SVT_Power]

Is  MAF = mass airflow sensor? 

[VTEC_Inside]

My gut is telling me that you should go with the rebuild vs frankenmotor.

Less unknowns and warranty.

[SVT_Power]

My gut is telling me that you should go with the rebuild vs frankenmotor.

Less unknowns and warranty.

I'm leaning towards the rebuild as well if it's gonna be roughly the same price. The place that quoted me 1500-2000 for a lower end crankshaft + bearing rebuild said they offer a 3 month warranty on the engine.

[the Teuton]

This sounds awfully interesting.

[SVT666]

Is? MAF = mass airflow sensor??

yes.

[sportyaccordy]

http://www.geocities.com/svt_mondeo/3L.html

yeah, there are some simple mods to be done to put the 3 liter in there (like swapping oil pans, moving an alignment dowel, etc) but it's simple stuff. The cost of buying the 3 liter from a '99-up Taurus would be about the same as buying a 2.5 liter from another Contour. And you wouldn't lose power like you would going to the non-SVT. Of course, you could swap to the non-SVT engine and then use the SVT parts on a Taurus 3 liter as a project to build up in the meantime.

Sucks that the engine broke. I'd love to hear what the actual problem is And yeah, the BEST bet is to figure out what the issue is first before spending even more money and time swapping engines out.

Yea taking the goodies off the 2.5L and throwing them on the 3.0L sounds like a plan to me. The 3.0L goes for about $400-500... altogether I'd say you're in for about $1500-2000 worth of work if you get a competent mechanic.

[JWC]

I only made my comments based on experiences with other swaps.  I can't say 100% that this would be the case here.  Sometimes, the most logical choices for a swap get screwed up by computers and software calibrations.

Recently we swapped a transmission from a 2004 CV to a 2003 Crown Vic.  Once installed, the transmission wouldn't shift. While the harness plugged right in, it was also one pin off.  We spliced the wiring harness in from the 2004 to the 2003.  It began shifting, but the MIL lighted up.  Calibrations were different.  A 2003 PCM wouldn't accept the 2004 software, so we swapped the PCM from the 2004, but the MAF specs are different, so we had to swap the MAF.  Since the MAF has a different connector, we had to splice that harness into the car.    After all that, it ran and shifted correctly.  Still sets a code for a power steering sensor fault, logical since the 2003 doesn't have that sensor, but since that fault doesn't turn on the MIL and won't hold it back from passing its emissions test, we let it go.

If you are going to swap the whole engine over, not just the short block, I'd say there would be issues. But, just swapping the short block over and using components from your engine, including sensors, I would think it would work OK.

[ArchBishop]

Ppsshhh....
I swapped in a 1998 KA24DE, and a 2001 RE04 trans with closer gears and Have had no issues. Both of those pasrts came from OBDII cars, while my car is OBDI, and I'm running aftermarket ECU software.

[Madman]

I'm leaning towards the rebuild as well if it's gonna be roughly the same price. The place that quoted me 1500-2000 for a lower end crankshaft + bearing rebuild said they offer a 3 month warranty on the engine.

I'd have to agree.  SVT Contours are becoming rare since so many of them have fallen into the wrong hands; kids who pick them up for peanuts, crash and thrash them and throw them away when they break.  It's been a long time since I have seen a SVT Contour in good condition.  Pity, because I always thought they were good (and seriously under-rated) cars.

I think it would be best to keep this car as original as possible and get the 2.5 litre SVT motor rebuilt.  In the long run, you'll be glad you did.  Someday these cars will be sought after by collectors and an original and correct SVT will always be more valuable than an altered car.  If your going to keep it, you may as well do it right.


Madman of the People

[JWC]

Ironically, a guy has his car towed into the dealership today.  A 1999 Contour SE 2.0 Zetec, 110,000 miles.  Before he towed it in, it had the MIL on and according to Advance Auto, code P1383.  Also according to Advance (and their readout) it was a generic misfire code/ignition problem.  They sold him plugs, wires, and a coil.   Evidently, he installed the parts right in the parking lot at Advance (college kids...geez).  Drove out of the parking lot and the engine stalled and would not restart.

A code p1383, despite the readout from Advance, is a variable timing over advanced, bank one.  Sometime tomorrow morning I get to call him with an estimate of how much this is going to cost him.   I'm sure it won't be cheap.  Hopefully for him, they sold him a bad coil. 

Somehow, I don't think this guy is that lucky. 

[SVT_Power]

I'd have to agree.  SVT Contours are becoming rare since so many of them have fallen into the wrong hands; kids who pick them up for peanuts, crash and thrash them and throw them away when they break.  It's been a long time since I have seen a SVT Contour in good condition.  Pity, because I always thought they were good (and seriously under-rated) cars.

I think it would be best to keep this car as original as possible and get the 2.5 litre SVT motor rebuilt.  In the long run, you'll be glad you did.  Someday these cars will be sought after by collectors and an original and correct SVT will always be more valuable than an altered car.  If your going to keep it, you may as well do it right.


Madman of the People

yeah that's what i thought. The SVTC isn't just any car (it's not a exotic or anything but still rare) and I would love to keep it around with a rebuilt motor. Unfortunately, my parents won't give me the money so I'm gonna have to sell it

[Eye of the Tiger]

yeah that's what i thought. The SVTC isn't just any car (it's not a exotic or anything but still rare) and I would love to keep it around with a rebuilt motor. Unfortunately, my parents won't give me the money so I'm gonna have to sell it

Tell them no, and just keep the car until you can afford to fix it urself 

[SVT_Power]

Tell them no, and just keep the car until you can afford to fix it urself 

my mom MIGHT consider that option, but i know my dad wont

[the Teuton]

186,834...a number just typed here to remind you that apparently all Contours aren't created equal.

[SVT_Power]

186,834...a number just typed here to remind you that apparently all Contours aren't created equal.

[SVT_Power]

i'd go beat you...but u'd probably put me in the hospital with a couple of punches

[VTEC_Inside]

yeah that's what i thought. The SVTC isn't just any car (it's not a exotic or anything but still rare) and I would love to keep it around with a rebuilt motor. Unfortunately, my parents won't give me the money so I'm gonna have to sell it

Do they realize that you are going to take a bath selling it??

Rebuilding the engine may not be a pretty repair bill, but its your best solution to get your moneys worth out of the car.

[Eye of the Tiger]

1... a number typed here to remind you of how many first cars you get