New engine into the SVT Contour - questions

[SVT_Power]

Okay so I heard the 3L Duratec actually needs some modifications before it'll fit into the SVT Contour. And at this point, I'm trying to use the least amount of money I can. I don't know why I didn't think of this before but what if I dropped a 2.5L Duratec from a regular contour into the car? Shouldn't that just literally just fit when you put it in?

[Danish]

What exactly is wrong with your current engine? Find out that first cause you might not need the new one after all

[The Pirate]

What exactly is wrong with your current engine? Find out that first cause you might not need the new one after all

[SVT_Power]

That nobody knows exactly at this point since the engine hasn't been even opened yet. But all the places I've called said it's almost always cheaper just putting a new engine in than fixing a broken one

[SVT_Power]

I know what you guys are saying but if the mechanic takes off the top only to find that it's not fixable without taking out the engine, I would have wasted whatever labour cost.

But let's keep the thread on topic okay?

[The Pirate]

Well, I'd find out what happened before I did anything.

[The Pirate]

I know what you guys are saying but if the mechanic takes off the top only to find that it's not fixable without taking out the engine, I would have wasted whatever labour cost.

But let's keep the thread on topic okay?

Yes, the regular Duratec should fit in the car.  I'm not positive whether it'd match up the the transmission and clutch or not, though.  IIRC, SVT Contours had a different transmission from lesser Contours.

[Danish]

I know what you guys are saying but if the mechanic takes off the top only to find that it's not fixable without taking out the engine, I would have wasted whatever labour cost.

Its not really a waste of labor.... if you replace the engine you might want to try and sell the old engine

What exactly is wrong with your current engine? Find out that first cause you might not need the new one after all

[SVT_Power]

the transmission was the same thing as the non-SVT contours (MTX-75 tranny)

[the Teuton]

The 5 speed is the exact same thing.  I wouldn't be complaining about the 5th gear in the regular V6 model if it wasn't. 

As for the engine, like I said, the regular has 170 hp but almost the exact same amount of torque.  The ECU should free up a bit more of the rev range in the old engine, and it shouldn't be too noticeable until you really beat the hell out of the car.  The old 2.5 is less aggressive cams, a less free-flowing intake manifold, and a different ECU.  I think those are the biggest differences.

I just sold my broken EJ18 for 1/4 the price I bought my new EJ18 for, so I made some of the money back.  Believe me, someone will want to rebuild it if the price is right.

[565]

It kinda sucks you need this car up and running to get around, otherwise it would be a great project to rebuild the engine yourself. 

[heelntoe]

try to keep the old engine with you so that you can see what is wrong and maybe fix it later when you have some money.

[JWC]

PCM and wiring harness will have to be changed if you swap engines.

[ChrisV]

http://www.geocities.com/svt_mondeo/3L.html

yeah, there are some simple mods to be done to put the 3 liter in there (like swapping oil pans, moving an alignment dowel, etc) but it's simple stuff. The cost of buying the 3 liter from a '99-up Taurus would be about the same as buying a 2.5 liter from another Contour. And you wouldn't lose power like you would going to the non-SVT. Of course, you could swap to the non-SVT engine and then use the SVT parts on a Taurus 3 liter as a project to build up in the meantime.

Sucks that the engine broke. I'd love to hear what the actual problem is And yeah, the BEST bet is to figure out what the issue is first before spending even more money and time swapping engines out.

[ChrisV]

PCM and wiring harness will have to be changed if you swap engines.

In this case, that's not true. The wiring harness remains the same, as the blocks are essentially the same and you'd be running the SVT upper end, intake and injection system. The guys that have done the swap have reported that their ECU works fine afterwards.

[ChrisV]

http://www.3lduratec.com/main.html

[VTEC_Inside]

It wont cost too much to do a LITTLE investigating.

Pull the valve covers, timing cover, oil pan, etc...

I dunno about the 3.0L swap. Seems like too much of a project at this time.

I didn't know that the same 2.5L was in the Cougar. Perhaps finding another 2.5L wont be that hard after all.

[S204STi]

Ed,  not to beat a disfigured horse but what you should do is find out the extent of the damage to the engine.  You might just need new heads and valvetrain, along with a tensioner, etc.  Of course, you might have also put a hole in one of your pistons.  But if it's just the heads you need that's a lot cheaper than a long block.

[ChrisV]

It sounds like, from the description I'm getting in PMs, that the engine is truly locked up, and it's most likely a bottom end problem. It won't turn over by hand or with the starter. I really doubt that anything on the top end would cause the situation being described, but there's always a possibility. Pull the pan and look at the connecting rods and crank, and pull the valve covers and inspect the cam, cam followers and valves to see if one is bent/stuck.

I'd also want to put a socket on the crank bolt in neutral and rock the engine back and forth to see if it's truly locked both directions or if it's merely hitting on something. At any rate, sounds like the engine will have to come out to fix it. But repairing the engine would be cheaper than replacing it and would come with a warranty. Something a used engine will not usually have. Also that would leave it being the SVT's engine, not a lower power "standard" V6.

[S204STi]

It sounds like, from the description I'm getting in PMs, that the engine is truly locked up, and it's most likely a bottom end problem. It won't turn over by hand or with the starter. I really doubt that anything on the top end would cause the situation being described, but there's always a possibility. Pull the pan and look at the connecting rods and crank, and pull the valve covers and inspect the cam, cam followers and valves to see if one is bent/stuck.

I'd also want to put a socket on the crank bolt in neutral and rock the engine back and forth to see if it's truly locked both directions or if it's merely hitting on something. At any rate, sounds like the engine will have to come out to fix it. But repairing the engine would be cheaper than replacing it and would come with a warranty. Something a used engine will not usually have. Also that would leave it being the SVT's engine, not a lower power "standard" V6.

Oh, I see.  I was under the impression that the starter turned but the engine wouldn't start or something...oops.

[S204STi]

PCM and wiring harness will have to be changed if you swap engines.

Something people tend to miss when discussing motor swaps...and a huge pain in the arse.

[ChrisV]

Something people tend to miss when discussing motor swaps...and a huge pain in the arse.

Again, in this case, it's unnecessary, as you're talking either replacing it with the same engine block, or a SLIGHTLY larger displacement block. But all of the ancillaries, wiring, senders, intake, MAF, etc, etc are the same. The stock wiring harness would bolt right up.

[S204STi]

Again, in this case, it's unnecessary, as you're talking either replacing it with the same engine block, or a SLIGHTLY larger displacement block. But all of the ancillaries, wiring, senders, intake, MAF, etc, etc are the same. The stock wiring harness would bolt right up.

Hmm...well, I suppose you might be right, but the resident Ford service advisor seems to think there are significant differences.

[VTEC_Inside]

Any updates yet M_Power?

[the Teuton]

Something people tend to miss when discussing motor swaps...and a huge pain in the arse.

You of all people should know that you don't always have to change the wiring harness (i.e. Subaru engines).  You just have to when the engine is so completely different that it won't do anything properly.  I'm betting that a lot of my swap problems came from not changing the ECU in my car because a lot of people say the 2.2 ECU will work with the 2.5 engine in my car and thus infered that the same was with the 1.8.  Something tells me that this kind of swap, if he chose to go with it, wouldn't need a new wiring harness at all.

[S204STi]

You of all people should know that you don't always have to change the wiring harness (i.e. Subaru engines).? You just have to when the engine is so completely different that it won't do anything properly.? I'm betting that a lot of my swap problems came from not changing the ECU in my car because a lot of people say the 2.2 ECU will work with the 2.5 engine in my car and thus infered that the same was with the 1.8.? Something tells me that this kind of swap, if he chose to go with it, wouldn't need a new wiring harness at all.

Yeah, but Subaru is a different animal from most companies.  You are probably right though.

[ChrisV]

Hmm...well, I suppose you might be right, but the resident Ford service advisor seems to think there are significant differences.

The resident Ford Service advisor put any 3.0s into SVTs before? None of the Contour/SVT owners who have done this have needed ECU swaps or wiring harness swaps. Why? because you don't replace the intake, MAF, heads, etc with Taurus parts, ONLY the short block, which uses the same knock sensor, same starter, same etc. You move the heads and intake/MAF over from the 2.5 liter SVT engine, as well as the timing/front cover. You also swap over the 2.5's oil pan and pickup, and move a couple of the alignment dowels on the back of the engine to mate up with the MTX-75.

And if you replace the SVT short black with another 2.5 liter short block, then nothing is changed in respect to the wiring harness or sensors.

We're not talking putting an LS1 in where an LT1 was. Or a 4.6 Cobra DOHC motor where a 4.6 SOHC was.

[S204STi]

The resident Ford Service advisor put any 3.0s into SVTs before? None of the Contour/SVT owners who have done this have needed ECU swaps or wiring harness swaps. Why? because you don't replace the intake, MAF, heads, etc with Taurus parts, ONLY the short block, which uses the same knock sensor, same starter, same etc. You move the heads and intake/MAF over from the 2.5 liter SVT engine, as well as the timing/front cover. You also swap over the 2.5's oil pan and pickup, and move a couple of the alignment dowels on the back of the engine to mate up with the MTX-75.

And if you replace the SVT short black with another 2.5 liter short block, then nothing is changed in respect to the wiring harness or sensors.

We're not talking putting an LS1 in where an LT1 was. Or a 4.6 Cobra DOHC motor where a 4.6 SOHC was.

Well, all of that works great if it's just the short-block he's swapping, I was thinking you meant a long-block.  Again, another reason why Ed should check it out before trying a swap.  If his heads are FUBAR then it won't matter, he'll either need to source out a couple of new heads along with a 3.0 shortblock, or get a new SVT long-block.

[ChrisV]

Turns out, if he swaps the 3.0 heads and all, he can swap in the SVT cams, and he has to swap on the SVT intake manifold/MAF/front cover, etc, but leave the Taurus long block alone. Again, all the sensors and the wiring harness stays the same (the SVT ECU runs the engine a touch rich as it is, and it matches the 3.0 perfectly). If his guy will drop in the 3.0 for $1200, I'd say go for it, with or without warranty, you know that the bottom end is good. 3.0 SVTs are all the rage, and what I would do with one regardless of engine condition...

Now I'm seeing guys start to swap the 3.5 liter Duratechs in there... 270+ hp with a stock engine where only 195 hp was is a good thing..

[S204STi]

turns out, if he swaps the 3.0 heads and all, he can swap in the SVT cams, and he has to swap on teh SVT intake manifold/MAF/front cover, etc, but leave the taurus long block alone again, all the sensors and the wiring harness stays the same (the SVT ECU runs the engine a touch rich as it is, and it matches the 3.0 perfectly). If his guy will drop in the 3.0 for $1200, I'd say go for it, with or without warranty, you know that the bottom end is good. 3.0 SVTs are all the rage, and what I would do with one regardless of engine condition...

Now I'm seeing guys start to swap the 3.5 liter Duratechs in there... 270+ hp with a stock engine where only 195 hp was is a good thing..

Heck yeah!