BMW M6

[Raza]

Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.

It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages.  There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car.  The M3 is not a sports car.  The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars.  The Dodge Viper is.  

Get over it man.

I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet  is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?

No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.

Why don't you just let everything in?  Is the Escalade a sports car now too?

[TBR]

Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.

It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages.  There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car.  The M3 is not a sports car.  The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars.  The Dodge Viper is.  

Get over it man.

I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet  is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?

No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.

Why don't you just let everything in?  Is the Escalade a sports car now too?

2 of which are useless.

Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.

[Raza]

Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.

It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages.  There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car.  The M3 is not a sports car.  The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars.  The Dodge Viper is.  

Get over it man.

I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet  is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?

No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.

Why don't you just let everything in?  Is the Escalade a sports car now too?

2 of which are useless.

Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.

It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless.  They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.

The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.

[Run Away]

Who the fuck cares what the definition is?
I'm going to call cars like the Z06 Sports Cars, even if they do not fit the 1930s definition of "sports car".

My Oxford Dictionary of Current English defines "sports car" as:
"low built fast car"

So, now the Oxford english dictionary is wrong, because Raza and 5th Gear say otherwise?

[Raza]

Yes.  

ChrisV agrees with me, too.

[Run Away]

Yes.  

ChrisV agrees with me, too.

Fantastic.

[TBR]

Yes.  

ChrisV agrees with me, too.

ChrisV just happens to be a pompous, arrogant guy who thinks he knows everything. Sort of reminds you of someone else that posts on car message boards, doesn't he?  

[Raza]

Yes. 

ChrisV agrees with me, too.

ChrisV just happens to be a pompous, arrogant guy who thinks he knows everything. Sort of reminds you of someone else that posts on car message boards, doesn't he?

Who me?

Yeah, a little.

[SJ_GTI]

I don't think Porsche considers the 911 a sports car either, that's why they made the Boxster.

The track versions are called "GT3" or "GT2" for a reason. they are grand tourers. This is not a diss to the 911, as most cars commonly referred to as "sports cars" are usually GT cars.

[Raghavan]

Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.

It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages.  There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car.  The M3 is not a sports car.  The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars.  The Dodge Viper is.  

Get over it man.

so the Viper coupe isn't a sports car while the viper convetible is?
you're view on sports cars are flawed, raza.

[Raghavan]

Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.

It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages.  There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car.  The M3 is not a sports car.  The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars.  The Dodge Viper is.  

Get over it man.

I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet  is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?

No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.

Why don't you just let everything in?  Is the Escalade a sports car now too?

2 of which are useless.

Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.

It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless.  They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.

The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.

well then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car.  

[SJ_GTI]

well then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car.

The Porsche GT3 is a GT, and the Boxster is a sports car. The GT3 is a much better, faster car than the Boxster. There is no part of the defintion of a sports car that says it has to be faster than a similar GT.

[giant_mtb]

An STi, by definition is certainly not a sports car, but it sure is a helluva sporty car.    

[Raza]

Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.

It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages.  There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car.  The M3 is not a sports car.  The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars.  The Dodge Viper is.  

Get over it man.

I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet  is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?

No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.

Why don't you just let everything in?  Is the Escalade a sports car now too?

2 of which are useless.

Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.

It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless.  They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.

The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.

well then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car.

The SSR is a convertible pickup truck--not a sports car.  

[Raza]

Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.

It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages.  There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car.  The M3 is not a sports car.  The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars.  The Dodge Viper is.  

Get over it man.

so the Viper coupe isn't a sports car while the viper convetible is?
you're view on sports cars are flawed, raza.

There is no Viper coupe anymore.  And the old RT10 was one of the best examples of a true sports car.  

[TBR]

" There is no Viper coupe anymore. And the old RT10 was one of the best examples of a true sports car."

Yes there is, or at least there will be one shortly (as an '06 I believe).  

[Raza]

" There is no Viper coupe anymore. And the old RT10 was one of the best examples of a true sports car."

Yes there is, or at least there will be one shortly (as an '06 I believe).

Then when it comes out, it will be a GT, and the SRT10 roadster will be a sports car.

[ifcar]

Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.

It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages.  There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car.  The M3 is not a sports car.  The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars.  The Dodge Viper is.  

Get over it man.

I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet  is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?

No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.

Why don't you just let everything in?  Is the Escalade a sports car now too?

2 of which are useless.

Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.

It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless.  They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.

The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.

well then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car.

The SSR is a convertible pickup truck--not a sports car.

"Fifth Gear defines a sports car as a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top."

Thse SSR uses a platform that it shares with SUVs and is styled like a pickup, but overall it fits that definition.

[Raza]

Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.

It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages.  There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car.  The M3 is not a sports car.  The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars.  The Dodge Viper is.  

Get over it man.

I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet  is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?

No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.

Why don't you just let everything in?  Is the Escalade a sports car now too?

2 of which are useless.

Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.

It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless.  They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.

The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.

well then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car.

The SSR is a convertible pickup truck--not a sports car.

"Fifth Gear defines a sports car as a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top."

Thse SSR uses a platform that it shares with SUVs and is styled like a pickup, but overall it fits that definition.

Then, by many of your definitions, many pickup trucks would be considered sports cars as well.

You're all just being foolish.  Is a 2 door Blazer a coupe?  No.  It's a truck.

[ifcar]

I'm being no more foolish than you are. Two can play your little definition game.

The definition I'm seeing for a "truck" is "any of various heavy motor vehicles designed for carrying or pulling loads." Does the SSR fit that definition?

[SJ_GTI]

I don't see what the big deal is here.

A GT can be as simple as a hardtop sports car, or it can have 4 seats, etc...but sports car by defintion implies some sort of open top.

Claiming a truck is a sports car doesn't make Raza's point look silly, it makes you look silly IMHO.

[ifcar]

I'm only showing how outdated definitions allow for too many exceptions today. I don't actually consider the SSR a sports car, but it is one according to such worthless definitions.

[SJ_GTI]

I'm only showing how outdated definitions allow for too many exceptions today. I don't actually consider the SSR a sports car, but Raza's definition doesn't say that it isn't one.

Actually it does. It says it need sto be a car. Read the sentence again.

[ifcar]

What is the SSR then? It definitely doesn't meet the definition that I found for a truck (any of various heavy motor vehicles designed for carrying or pulling loads).

Again, I'm not trying to say that the SSR is a car. I'm only trying to show the limited usefulness of an old and general definition.  

[giant_mtb]

The SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.

[ifcar]

The SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.

Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.

[giant_mtb]

The SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.

Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.

Yeah...350Z, 911, and Vette are deffinitely sports cars, no doubt.  What deffinition says they aren't?

[ifcar]

The SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.

Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.

Yeah...350Z, 911, and Vette are deffinitely sports cars, no doubt.  What deffinition says they aren't?

Raza.  

"A sports car is a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top."

[giant_mtb]

The SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.

Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.

Yeah...350Z, 911, and Vette are deffinitely sports cars, no doubt.  What deffinition says they aren't?

Raza.  

Fifth Gear defines a sports car as a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top.

That one?  Well then what would a 911, Z, or Vette be?    They aren't supercars, exotics, or musclecars (though the Vette could be)...that deffinition isn't very good.

[ifcar]

Look through this thread, he's basically fighting by himself on this one.