Variants likely for upcoming Lexus IS

[BMWDave]

Variants likely for upcoming Lexus IS; coupe and convertible on wish list
MARK RECHTIN | Automotive News
Posted Date: 7/18/05
LOS ANGELES -- To field a strong BMW 3-series competitor, Toyota Motor Corp. is looking at a range of variants, such as a coupe, convertible and hybrid, for the redesigned Lexus IS 250 and IS 350, two sources say.

The company declines to confirm the plans. But Suguya Fukusato, chief engineer for the IS program, says that market demand requires variants in the future.

Fukusato says Lexus is evaluating a ragtop similar to the BMW 3 series, as well as a retractable hardtop. Fukusato says he would prefer a ragtop for the weight and space savings. He spoke at a media event here last week.

Bob Carter, general manager of Lexus Division, says an IS coupe and convertible are on the company's wish list. Carter says those variants are necessary because Lexus wants the IS lineup to compete with the BMW 3 series.

The redesigned 2006 IS sedans go on sale in October.

The IS platform architecture is shared with the GS sedans, making a hybrid variant possible as well.

The GS 450h hybrid sedan will arrive next spring, powered by a V-6 engine and two electric motors.

Fukusato says Toyota's current hybrids are too focused on fuel economy to work with a performance sedan.

"If we could make the hybrid sportier, then we could introduce a hybrid version. Every day we make progress," Fukusato says.

Another high-performance possibility: a rumored IS 460, powered by a V-8. Because the IS engine bay is almost identical to that of the GS, a V-8 could fit in the IS chassis.

But Fukusato noted that such a big engine would upset the front-rear weight bias, which is crucial to the handling of a sport sedan.

With a convertible, coupe, wagon and sedan, the BMW 3 series posted sales of 106,549 in the United States in 2004. The Lexus IS, with sedan and wagon, posted sales of 9,972 last year.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

"To field a strong BMW 3-series competitor"

Keep dreaming, i'd worry about offering equal packages first, namely a stick.

Then worry about chassis dynamics and ninny drives.

"But Fukusato noted that such a big engine would upset the front-rear weight bias, which is crucial to the handling of a sport sedan."

Where, i must have missed it, i thought this was a article about lexus, what does a sport sedan have to do with lexus?



Seriously your just going to get laughed at if you go after BMW.

I really hope infiniti i learning from this crap, they better come up with some manuals for the M(35X manual for both G and M, a manual for v-8 powered cars).

[BMWDave]

Yup, you really cannot compete with BMW if you dont even have a stick...that is one of the most essential things a sports sedan needs.

[cozmik]

Yup, you really cannot compete with BMW if you dont even have a stick...that is one of the most essential things a sports sedan needs.

You can't compete in magazine tests w/o a manual. In reality though, something like 85% of all BMW 3 Series are ordered with an automatic. The majority of the consumer market isn't really going to care.

[BMWDave]

Yup, you really cannot compete with BMW if you dont even have a stick...that is one of the most essential things a sports sedan needs.

You can't compete in magazine tests w/o a manual. In reality though, something like 85% of all BMW 3 Series are ordered with an automatic. The majority of the consumer market isn't really going to care.

I agree with that to some extent, but in principle, if you still want to compete and say you have a better sports sedan than BMW, you cant do that.

[TBR]

I agree that in the compact luxury class a manual is essential, but to say that a manual is necessary for a midsizer to be taken seriously as a BMW competitor is ridiculous. Probably only 5% of 5-series are sold with manuals and that is likely generous..

[BMWDave]

I agree that in the compact luxury class a manual is essential, but to say that a manual is necessary for a midsizer to be taken seriously as a BMW competitor is ridiculous. Probably only 5% of 5-series are sold with manuals and that is likely generous..

I agree with you.  I tried to make that disctinction, as I also believe that.

[TBR]

I was primarly replying to FBC's post regarding the M's lack of a manual (at least that is what I think I was replying to, he had some wacky punctutation and grammar going on).  

[JYODER240]

Correct me if I wrong but I think I heard that Cadillac is doing something similar with the next CTS, a coupe and convertable offering. Personally I think a  CTS coupe would look sweet.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Well sales are sales, it doesn't matter how little they would sell. Its the simple fact that they offer one.

Having a manual won't make or break a model(in the general car buying arena). But it will seperate the men from the boys when it comes to the enthusiest arena. I always have to point this out, its not about sales, its about image.

Is the M going to go down in flames because of a lack of a manual on the V-8 Trim. no

Are the people who drive manual only going to settle for a auto M or are they going to goto BMW and others who offer V-8 Power and a manual.
No, they want a manual and will goto a different brand if they have too.

I'm a big infiniti fan, and love the new M. However if i were in the market i would dismiss the M for the lack of a manual. No matter how much i like the car it just doesn't offer everything i want(manual).

Its that simple, and its more to do with image than anything.

[R33 GT-R]

party pooper

[TBR]

I would never buy a 5-series, manual or not.  

[BMWDave]

I would never buy a 5-series, manual or not.

Why is that? (just curious)

[Raghavan]

will the IS 430 come with a manual?

[TBR]

I would never buy a 5-series, manual or not.

Why is that? (just curious)

Styling primarly, I would never spend 50k on a car I think is ugly.  

[BMWDave]

I would never buy a 5-series, manual or not.

Why is that? (just curious)

Styling primarly, I would never spend 50k on a car I think is ugly.

Oh, I thought you had a problem with the size or something

You should have said current 5er, because I thought you meant the 5er as a car, in all iterations.

[TBR]

Oh no, I love the last gen (can't remember the number designation).  

[BMWDave]

Oh no, I love the last gen (can't remember the number designation).

E39 I believe.

[TBR]

That sounds right

[Raza]

Without a stick, this car just isn't what the 3er is, and what the last IS was.  Also, with all the nannies, it will be C class runoff.

[BMWDave]

Without a stick, this car just isn't what the 3er is, and what the last IS was.  Also, with all the nannies, it will be C class runoff.

Thats the apparent opinion of many people.  When you tout a car as a 3er competitor, you better give it a stick.

[Raza]

Without a stick, this car just isn't what the 3er is, and what the last IS was.  Also, with all the nannies, it will be C class runoff.

Thats the apparent opinion of many people.  When you tout a car as a 3er competitor, you better give it a stick.

Hell, if Mercedes can give one to the C350, Lexus can do this too.

I think they severely dropped the ball on this one.  

[BMWDave]

Without a stick, this car just isn't what the 3er is, and what the last IS was.? Also, with all the nannies, it will be C class runoff.

Thats the apparent opinion of many people.  When you tout a car as a 3er competitor, you better give it a stick.

Hell, if Mercedes can give one to the C350, Lexus can do this too.

I think they severely dropped the ball on this one.

I agree.

[SJ_GTI]

Its funny reading this thread how US centric we all are.

IN the US maybe most 3ers and 5ers are sold as autos, but go over to europe and it will be the opposite.

Also maybe I am just strange but alot of the 540i's and 545i's I have seen are manual or SMG. I would guess from personal experience that the manual take is actually higher on the 545i than on the 525i or 530i.

Also, as FBC pointed out there are plenty of enthusiasts that will only consider manuals. As an enthusiast I am not going to let my tastes bedictating by the lowest common denominator. BMW right now is the only company that caters to enthusiasts across its entire model range (except the 7er  :P ) as far as I am concerned. Even though as you can tell from my own car I am not beholden to BMW, I have to admit I admire BMW's in general more than any other mainstream manufacturer.

[BMWDave]

Its funny reading this thread how US centric we all are.

IN the US maybe most 3ers and 5ers are sold as autos, but go over to europe and it will be the opposite.

Also maybe I am just strange but alot of the 540i's and 545i's I have seen are manual or SMG. I would guess from personal experience that the manual take is actually higher on the 545i than on the 525i or 530i.

Also, as FBC pointed out there are plenty of enthusiasts that will only consider manuals. As an enthusiast I am not going to let my tastes bedictating by the lowest common denominator. BMW right now is the only company that caters to enthusiasts across its entire model range (except the 7er  :P ) as far as I am concerned. Even though as you can tell from my own car I am not beholden to BMW, I have to admit I admire BMW's in general more than any other mainstream manufacturer.

I dont believe the 7er even has a manual in Europe.

[Raza]

Its funny reading this thread how US centric we all are.

IN the US maybe most 3ers and 5ers are sold as autos, but go over to europe and it will be the opposite.

Also maybe I am just strange but alot of the 540i's and 545i's I have seen are manual or SMG. I would guess from personal experience that the manual take is actually higher on the 545i than on the 525i or 530i.

Also, as FBC pointed out there are plenty of enthusiasts that will only consider manuals. As an enthusiast I am not going to let my tastes bedictating by the lowest common denominator. BMW right now is the only company that caters to enthusiasts across its entire model range (except the 7er  :P ) as far as I am concerned. Even though as you can tell from my own car I am not beholden to BMW, I have to admit I admire BMW's in general more than any other mainstream manufacturer.

I dont believe the 7er even has a manual in Europe.

It used to (remember Transporter?) but when they moved to this model and the drive by wire auto, they got rid of it.  

[BMWDave]

Its funny reading this thread how US centric we all are.

IN the US maybe most 3ers and 5ers are sold as autos, but go over to europe and it will be the opposite.

Also maybe I am just strange but alot of the 540i's and 545i's I have seen are manual or SMG. I would guess from personal experience that the manual take is actually higher on the 545i than on the 525i or 530i.

Also, as FBC pointed out there are plenty of enthusiasts that will only consider manuals. As an enthusiast I am not going to let my tastes bedictating by the lowest common denominator. BMW right now is the only company that caters to enthusiasts across its entire model range (except the 7er? :P ) as far as I am concerned. Even though as you can tell from my own car I am not beholden to BMW, I have to admit I admire BMW's in general more than any other mainstream manufacturer.

I dont believe the 7er even has a manual in Europe.

It used to (remember Transporter?) but when they moved to this model and the drive by wire auto, they got rid of it.

Yes, I was talking about the current model  

[Colonel Cadillac]

And did you see, the Transporter 2 is using an Audi A8 6.0 W12!

[Raghavan]

my neighbors got a GS.

[mazda6er]

No manual!? I wasn't aware of this.