What I would like to see....

[mojammer]

I think it'd be great if companies made basic versions of their sport sedans/cars.  For example, take a 1-series, remove the 12-subwoofer, 47-speaker sound system, the power seats, put in basic cloth seats, approx 200hp 4 cylinder, a light 5 speed tranny, small 16 or so inch wheels and tires. 

Or for toyota, take the last gen IS300, put in a 4 cyl, etc etc all the same.

And do it all for about 20k.  That'd bee pretty sweet in my book.

[Cookie Monster]

Yes.

[CALL_911]

That is what I would like to see as well.

I wish BMW made the 320si as a regular production model, and sold it here.

[Raza]

We'd all like to see it.  But the people who can afford to buy cars like that don't want to give up their stereo and leather to save .1 of a second at the racetracks they never go to.

[Cookie Monster]

We'd all like to see it.  But the people who can afford to buy cars like that don't want to give up their stereo and leather to save .1 of a second at the racetracks they never go to.

Maybe they'd like to give it up for the $10-15k they'd save?

[Raza]

Maybe they'd like to give it up for the $10-15k they'd save?

What 10-15K?  You really think pulling stuff out and putting in cheaper seats (albeit bespoke) and no sound system they're going to cut the cost on what will likely be a very low volume car?

Does the GT3 RS cost less than the GT3? 

[Eye of the Tiger]

It's the government's fault for making all the safety standards.

[MX793]

It would cheapen the brand.  A big part of the appeal of a BMW or Lexus is the premium badge and the exclusivity that comes with it.

Now if they wanted to spin off a cheaper brand name with models that are essentially decontented versions of their normal cars with perhaps some different styling (or in Lexus' case, sell it as a Toyota)....

[Vinsanity]

I think a 128i with no options would be as basic as buyers are willing to accept before they'd rather go the fully-equipped Camcord route. Maybe save a grand or so off the cost/selling price by downgrading to a more basic stereo, but that would be about it.

[sportyaccordy]

We'd all like to see it.  But the people who can afford to buy cars like that don't want to give up their stereo and leather to save .1 of a second at the racetracks they never go to.

Personally, I think there is a lot of romanticism of the 'track ready daily driver' on this board. Especially considering most people here will never, ever, ever, ever even come close to a race track with their car.

I think BMW should continue to load their cars up with all the features they can cram into them. They are still excellent drivers' cars, and whenever a new version of something like the 3 comes out, the generation that came before it always takes a huge hit on the used car market.

Why pay 20-25K for a bare bones 3 with a 2.0L 4 banger when you could buy a used 330i and build something way wilder than anything BMW could have allowed to come out of it's factory?

They have to make money.

[the Teuton]

The base 135i comes pretty damn close to your wish. 

I wish it had cloth seats instead of vinyl, but it does have manual seats.

[CALL_911]

The base 135i comes pretty damn close to your wish. 

I wish it had cloth seats instead of vinyl, but it does have manual seats.

Uh, dude, the 128i and the 328i start out the same way, and I'm pretty sure a 335i stripper does too. Hell, leatherette is an option on the 535.

[the Teuton]

Uh, dude, the 128i and the 328i start out the same way, and I'm pretty sure a 335i stripper does too. Hell, leatherette is an option on the 535.

the 35s have xenon headlights and a few more standard features (come to think of it, power seats), but the 28s are basically strippers.  You're right.

Funny story really quick, one of the salespeople came into the through-way and asked another plebe like me to find a demo or loaner X3 with leatherette seats so they could show a perspective buyer.  The person said, "What kind of seats?"

I answered to him, "She wants one with vinyl seats -- not leather."  He just said, "Oh, there's one right over there.  I'll get it."

Most people have no idea what "leatherette" seats are.

[CALL_911]

the 35s have xenon headlights and a few more standard features (come to think of it, power seats), but the 28s are basically strippers.  You're right.

Funny story really quick, one of the salespeople came into the through-way and asked another plebe like me to find a demo or loaner X3 with leatherette seats so they could show a perspective buyer.  The person said, "What kind of seats?"

I answered to him, "She wants one with vinyl seats -- not leather."  He just said, "Oh, there's one right over there.  I'll get it."

Most people have no idea what "leatherette" seats are.

Honestly, leatherette is pretty damn good. I know that I wouldn't mind it in my BMW, if I had one.

[Raza]

Prospective, fool!

[MX793]

Uh, dude, the 128i and the 328i start out the same way, and I'm pretty sure a 335i stripper does too. Hell, leatherette is an option on the 535.

The 128 is hardly stripped even in base form with no options.  The 128i has a standard power moonroof, 10 speaker stereo, auto climate control, power heated mirrors, and heated water jets as standard.  If that's you're idea of a stripped down car, I'm jealous.  My last car had no power accessories (crank windows, manual locks, manual mirrors), no cruise control, no safety features save seatbelts and a 4 speaker stereo.  My one creature comfort besides the radio was air conditioning.

Ditch the standard moonroof, switch to manual HVAC, a 6 speaker stereo and non-heated mirrors and I'm sure you could lop a couple of grand off of the starting price of the 128 and the experience would still hardly be "roughing it".

[ifcar]

The thing is that the manufacturers make their money on the options. Take away the options and they lose the $1,000 extra they charge for a stereo that can't cost them more than a hundred, and so forth. BMW has no incentive to do something like that; in fact, just the opposite.

[CALL_911]

The 128 is hardly stripped even in base form with no options.  The 128i has a standard power moonroof, 10 speaker stereo, auto climate control, power heated mirrors, and heated water jets as standard.  If that's you're idea of a stripped down car, I'm jealous.  My last car had no power accessories (crank windows, manual locks, manual mirrors), no cruise control, no safety features save seatbelts and a 4 speaker stereo.  My one creature comfort besides the radio was air conditioning.

Ditch the standard moonroof, switch to manual HVAC, a 6 speaker stereo and non-heated mirrors and I'm sure you could lop a couple of grand off of the starting price of the 128 and the experience would still hardly be "roughing it".

Agree.

[the Teuton]

Prospective, fool!

My bad.

Back on topic --

A Clubsport 135i will never happen.  BMW is a luxury performance brand.  They'll start selling strippers at a discount about the same time that Ford starts selling stripped versions of the GT500 for $30,000.

[cawimmer430]

Everyone here is talking about the 128i and 135i but even a normal 118i sedan is pretty agile! 

Even with an automatic transmission. 

[ifcar]

Everyone is talking about the 128i and 135i because those are the only models sold in the United States.

[sportyaccordy]

You would save more buying the car used w/all the features than buying it brand new with everything removed. What is the allure of buying new? What is the allure of a BMW equipped like a Geo Metro? I don't understand.

[GoCougs]

Automakers such as BWM, Lexus, et al. don't offer those stripper versions because they wouldn't sell well.

I also doubt that automakers could ever sell for a profit an IS, 1-series, C-class, etc., for $20k no matter how much it was stripped it.

[nickdrinkwater]

You would save more buying the car used w/all the features than buying it brand new with everything removed. What is the allure of buying new? What is the allure of a BMW equipped like a Geo Metro? I don't understand.

People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for.  These are the people who buy the ES and Classic trim levels offered by BMW and Mercedes respectively in Europe.

[cawimmer430]

Everyone is talking about the 128i and 135i because those are the only models sold in the United States.

I realize that. I am just mentioning my experiences with a dealer 118i (pre-facelift, 5-speed M/T) and my sisters 118i 6-speed A/T. The 118i is still a fun car and the performance is really awesome. I don't see how anyone could fault it.   

[cawimmer430]

People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for.  These are the people who buy the ES and Classic trim levels offered by BMW and Mercedes respectively in Europe.

Ding Ding!

Once again!

"People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for."

[Vinsanity]

People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for.  These are the people who buy the ES and Classic trim levels offered by BMW and Mercedes respectively in Europe.

The same could be said about people who buy Camry LE's and Accord LX's in America. If they're going to skimp on the gadgets, why pay extra for the badge?

[nickdrinkwater]

The same could be said about people who buy Camry LE's and Accord LX's in America. If they're going to skimp on the gadgets, why pay extra for the badge?

Because a Camry or Accord is built better, drives better, rides better or is more reliable than their competitors?  The same logic still applies.

By the way, I've not sat inside or ridden in either car so I'm just speculating.

[Vinsanity]

Because a Camry or Accord is built better, drives better, rides better or is more reliable than their competitors?  The same logic still applies.

By the way, I've not sat inside or ridden in either car so I'm just speculating.

I meant in comparison to a stripper 1-series. If people wanted to save money foregoing gadgets they won't use, they'll save at least as much money buying a mainstream car instead of a premium-branded one.

[sportyaccordy]

People want a quality product but not all the gadgets they have no use for.  These are the people who buy the ES and Classic trim levels offered by BMW and Mercedes respectively in Europe.

A 2-3 year old BMW is just as good as a brand new one. HAving leather and sunroof won't kill you.