Crap - my daughter nicked by the old bill for passing a school bus

[Morris Minor]

This morning, on her way to school, my 17-year-old daughter was stopped for passing a school bus whose lights were at red. According to her (& the cop agreed) the bus driver had let a small "convoy" of cars pass & she was on the end of the convoy, but passed while the lights were at red. Stupid child.

In view of the seriousness of the offense she got no ticket - she has to go to court, where she stands to lose her license for six months because of her youth (they come down hard on teenagers in GA), not to mention the seriousness of running a school bus at red.

I'm not excusing her and I have no problem with her being punished, but a license suspension will be devastating because:

• She has to drive to school - there is no school bus to use
• She has to do an internship with a local business as a high school requirement. Needs the car for that.
• She will be graduating early and needs the car to go to a local college (for some credits) before starting at university proper next fall.
• She has a weekend job at a store, and needs to drive for that

Could someone with experience of traffic courts offer advice? Do courts take into account individual circumstances before imposing penalties? Wondering how to approach this. The court date is mid-November.

[Galaxy]

If she has a boyfriend tell him to make himself useful and drive her.

[GoCougs]

Ha! I got nailed for this exact thing at that exact age.

The school bus driver wrote down my plate number and called the cops. The cops called my parents (car was registered to my dad), and they made an appointment to come talk to me and my parents. I was kind of a punk as I maintained that I didn't do it (I truly did not remember doing it), frustrating the LEO. Nonetheless, the only recourse was a written warning as it wasn't witnessed by an LEO.

That trip down memory lane aside, what's the deal with having to go to court but not having received a ticket? Is this a criminal offense, and not a traffic infraction kind of thing?

[bing_oh]

Nonetheless, the only recourse was a written warning as it wasn't witnessed by an LEO.

You're lucky. Passing a school bus is one of the few traffic offenses that we can write a cite for in Ohio without seeing the violation...a written statement from the bus driver with a license plate, vehicle description, and driver description is enough.

As for the original question, the juvenile court has alot of leeway as to what penalties it imposes. The juvenile court, unlike adult courts, are not designed to punish but to change juvenile behavior. And, every juvenile court judge I've ever delt with will take into consideration statements from parents and the kinds of discipline that the kids are facing at home when deciding on penalties. Even if your daughter ends up getting a drivers license suspension, you might ask the judge to consider driving privileges to and from school and work...that's within the court's abilitity (at least, it is around here).

[MaxPower]

I can't reconcile how she didn't get a ticket but still has to go to court.  Did she receive a summons telling her that she must appear for the violation?  If so, then she can still get fined in court...

If she wants to have a trial she can probably argue some line like she was so close to the rest of the convoy (and therefore so close to the bus) that it was unreasonable for her to make a safe stop when the lights came on.

I think a lot of states have exemptions to the license suspensions (work, school, etc.).  See TN 55-10-705(a)(3) -- possible exemptions for school (if no parental or public options) and work.

We had a similar fact pattern this summer.  However, the kid won because the school bus driver equated two car lengths (the defendant's claimed distance from the bus) with two telephone pole lengths (the distance she thought the defendant was from the bus when the lights went on).  So you could hope for a dumb school bus driver that you could easily confuse on cross exam!

[Morris Minor]

Sorry for the confusion re the ticket, I should have said she does not have the option to simply pay a ticket. She has to show up in court. I should also have mentioned that she passed her test less than six months ago, so is on a provisional license (can't transport people other than immediate family members etc.).

[GoCougs]

Yikes - serious when they MAKE you go to court. If it were me I'd spend a $100-$200 or so and consult with an attorney.

[FoMoJo]

A lawyer's a good idea...or if you have an organization like C.O.P.S. in your area. 

[James Young]

With consequences such as you have outlined, an attorney sounds like a good investment.  It also sounds like the state/law enforcment/courts institution wants to intimidate kids at the earliest possible opportunity.  Leaving "enforcement" up to bus drivers smacks of opportunism And Big Brotherism.  I'd love to cross-examine a bus driver under oath.

[Eye of the Tiger]

The bus driver waved traffic by and then turned the red lights on? That's entrapment.

[Submariner]

The bus driver waved traffic by and then turned the red lights on? That's entrapment.

TOobe honest, the bus driver seems to be the biggest offender in this entire ordeal.  Waving along drivers then suddenly turning on the lights reeks of stupidity.  Ever heard of letting the entire pack of closely spaced cars go before turning on the lights? 

Granted, I don't know all the facts, and the people behind them, but bus drivers (from 5 years of riding the school bus) are miserable human beings, and unintelligent ones too.  As James Young said, an on the stand examination could prove fatal to the states case. 

[Rupert]

Wait, the bus driver let a bunch of cars pass, but turned the lights on in the middle of that passing? That's dumb. Call a lawyer.

[ifcar]

I keep reading this thread title as "Crap - my daughter stopped for a passing school bus." Even knowing that I keep misreading it, I still wonder for a second what's wrong with stopping for a school bus every time I read it.

Carry on.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I keep reading this thread title as "Crap - my daughter stopped for a passing school bus." Even knowing that I keep misreading it, I still wonder for a second what's wrong with stopping for a school bus every time I read it.

Carry on.

Malfunction? Need input?

[Rupert]

[GoCougs]

Despite railing against Big Brother and state tyranny, an LEO saw the offense.

The only recourse is to visit an attorney if but for a consultation to discuss options. What those may be whose to know.

My hunch is that the best option is a win by attrition. Force the court into a paperwork slog and hope something gets missed/delayed/FUBAR'd such that the charges can be dropped/dismissed. A second best option is a plea deal for a lesser infraction that an attorney can work out with the court.

Simply trying to wing it by constructing a plausibly deniable scenario as suggested won't go anywhere. Given the fact that this is not a simple infraction but a court-mandated issue, the chances of completely side-stepping this one I'd guess are 1 in 500.

[Morris Minor]

I keep reading this thread title as "Crap - my daughter stopped for a passing school bus." Even knowing that I keep misreading it, I still wonder for a second what's wrong with stopping for a school bus every time I read it.

Carry on.

I retitled it. is that any better?

[93JC]

Malfunction? Need input?

[93JC]

I retitled it. is that any better?

[Minpin]

Lawyer's definitely a good idea. I got myself a good little 45 in a 20 school zone a year back or so. Pretty serious but our neighbor knew this guy and basically he made a deal with whoever and I paid 179 dollars and took an online defensive driving course. And on the same day he got my running a stop sign ticket taken away completely.

Basically he saved me hundreds of dollars and a suspended license.   (at least!)

And for the record, in Texas if you are like 18 or under just a single speeding ticket is enough for a judge to LEGALLY suspend your license for up to 6 months. I've never actually heard of it happening in my home town though. 

[TBR]

Lawyer's definitely a good idea. I got myself a good little 45 in a 20 school zone a year back or so. Pretty serious but our neighbor knew this guy and basically he made a deal with whoever and I paid 179 dollars and took an online defensive driving course. And on the same day he got my running a stop sign ticket taken away completely.

Basically he saved me hundreds of dollars and a suspended license.   (at least!)

And for the record, in Texas if you are like 18 or under just a single speeding ticket is enough for a judge to LEGALLY suspend your license for up to 6 months. I've never actually heard of it happening in my home town though. 

The little dinky towns back home (in Texas) don't even report points to the state as long as you pay the ticket, much less suspend your license.

[Minpin]

The little dinky towns back home (in Texas) don't even report points to the state as long as you pay the ticket, much less suspend your license.

I lived in The Woodlands.

[TBR]

I lived in The Woodlands.

Somehow I am not shocked...

I am about 60 miles north of Humble on 59.

[Minpin]

Somehow I am not shocked...

I am about 60 miles north of Humble on 59.

Most people who don't live up there hate us. For no reason. Whatever though, dude!

[TBR]

I don't hate you, it just doesn't surprise me that you live in one of the most affluent suburbs.

[Minpin]

I don't hate you, it just doesn't surprise me that you live in one of the most affluent suburbs.

But you will admit to the fact there is a sense of hate towards people just based on where they live?

I mean I was what 11? when we moved there. Even that short of time ago, the Woodlands is not even close to what it is today.

Me, and the rest of my entire family hate what it has become and is one of the many reason why they are moving down to the coast. They hate to see the frequent "flaunting" of wealth for no apparent reason. IE: giving your 16 year old kid a Ferrari, or buying 30,000 sq ft houses.

Have you heard of Carlton Woods by chance? That place is a ridiculous mess. It makes you sick to cruise by there...

Believe me when I tell you this, the Woodlands is an awful place to live. I was happy to leave and come to college, but I do miss my gf. 

[TBR]

But you will admit to the fact there is a sense of hate towards people just based on where they live?

I mean I was what 11? when we moved there. Even that short of time ago, the Woodlands is not even close to what it is today.

Me, and the rest of my entire family hate what it has become and is one of the many reason why they are moving down to the coast. They hate to see the frequent "flaunting" of wealth for no apparent reason. IE: giving your 16 year old kid a Ferrari, or buying 30,000 sq ft houses.

Have you heard of Carlton Woods by chance? That place is a ridiculous mess. It makes you sick to cruise by there...

Believe me when I tell you this, the Woodlands is an awful place to live. I was happy to leave and come to college, but I do miss my gf. 

I don't have any stereotypes about the people who live in Houston suburbs because I don't know any. I can't imagine being too happy living in any true suburb.

[Galaxy]

I do have one question about school buses.

A few years a go in Canada I saw a school bus come to stop on a four lane road (no barrier in between) with all the lights blinking. I was the only other vehicle in sight, coming from the opposite direction,  so I stopped because I did not know what to do.

Does one really have top stop for a blinking school bus on a four lane road? Or more to the point are the school bus drivers allowed to let children cross a four lane road, instead of having the bus make a U turn?

[Soup DeVille]

Red lights: all traffic both ways stops.

Amber lights: pass with caution.

That goes for divided roads as well.

[Galaxy]

Red lights: all traffic both ways stops.

Amber lights: pass with caution.

That goes for divided roads as well.

I would hate to be stuck behind one of those black and yellow rolling schicanes in a place like New York.