Cadillac DTS replacement Green-lighted

Started by FlatBlackCaddy, April 08, 2009, 09:55:40 AM


FlatBlackCaddy


omicron


the Teuton

The Audi A8 is a FWD-based full-sized sedan.  If Caddy made it exclusively AWD, I don't see where there would be a problem.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

FlatBlackCaddy

Quote from: the Teuton on April 08, 2009, 09:59:00 AM
The Audi A8 is a FWD-based full-sized sedan.  If Caddy made it exclusively AWD, I don't see where there would be a problem.

:facepalm:

hotrodalex

Quote from: the Teuton on April 08, 2009, 09:59:00 AM
The Audi A8 is a FWD-based full-sized sedan.  If Caddy made it exclusively AWD, I don't see where there would be a problem.

I would be fine with AWD.

the Teuton

2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

MrH

Quote from: the Teuton on April 08, 2009, 10:02:45 AM
Have you ever driven an A8?  It's t3h r0xx0r.

He's shaking his head at the fact you said it's front wheel drive based.  In this country, it's not.  They're all AWD, and not front wheel biased.

I don't have a problem with this being FWD.  There's a market for that type of car, regardless of how horrible it is.  Floaty, FWD caddy boats are what old people want.  Instead, I'd just prefer Cadillac makes a new, competitive STS that's RWD.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

the Teuton

An intelligent GM would have pushed the STS up to be an LS competitor, starting at about $50k and topping out at about $80k or so before any V-ifying.  They would have pushed the CTS upmarket, and they would have introduced a RWD BLS to legitimately compete with the small Germans and Japs.

But that would take too much sense, wouldn't it?  You've got to deal with the card you're given, I guess.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

Madman

If Hyundai can make the freakin' Genesis rear wheel drive, then why can't GM make a big rear-drive Cadillac?  Even a stretched STS platform would have been better than this Epsilon II sleeping pill.  A smart GM would have put both the STS and the DTS on the same production line, anyway.  But we all know GM isn't smart!


Cheers,
Madman of the People
Current cars: 2015 Ford Escape SE, 2011 MINI Cooper

Formerly owned cars: 2010 Mazda 5 Sport, 2008 Audi A4 2.0T S-Line Sedan, 2003 Volkswagen Passat GL 1.8T wagon, 1998 Ford Escort SE sedan, 2001 Cadillac Catera, 2000 Volkswagen Golf GLS 2.0 5-Door, 1997 Honda Odyssey LX, 1991 Volvo 240 sedan, 1990 Volvo 740 Turbo sedan, 1987 Volvo 240 DL sedan, 1990 Peugeot 405 DL Sportswagon, 1985 Peugeot 505 Turbo sedan, 1985 Merkur XR4Ti, 1983 Renault R9 Alliance DL sedan, 1979 Chevrolet Caprice Classic wagon, 1975 Volkswagen Transporter, 1980 Fiat X-1/9 Bertone, 1979 Volkswagen Rabbit C 3-Door hatch, 1976 Ford Pinto V6 coupe, 1952 Chevrolet Styleline Deluxe sedan

"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom." ~ Isaac Asimov

"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses." - Johannes Kepler

"One of the most cowardly things ordinary people do is to shut their eyes to facts." - C.S. Lewis

2o6

Quote from: Madman on April 08, 2009, 02:39:14 PM
If Hyundai can make the freakin' Genesis rear wheel drive, then why can't GM make a big rear-drive Cadillac?  Even a stretched STS platform would have been better than this Epsilon II sleeping pill.  A smart GM would have put both the STS and the DTS on the same production line, anyway.  But we all know GM isn't smart!


Cheers,
Madman of the People



The DTS isn't epsilon based.



Personally, I think the DTS should stay FWD.

Madman

Quote from: 2o6 on April 08, 2009, 02:40:57 PM

The DTS isn't epsilon based.


The headline says "Cadillac Epsilon II sedan approved."  :huh:


Cheers,
Madman of the People
Current cars: 2015 Ford Escape SE, 2011 MINI Cooper

Formerly owned cars: 2010 Mazda 5 Sport, 2008 Audi A4 2.0T S-Line Sedan, 2003 Volkswagen Passat GL 1.8T wagon, 1998 Ford Escort SE sedan, 2001 Cadillac Catera, 2000 Volkswagen Golf GLS 2.0 5-Door, 1997 Honda Odyssey LX, 1991 Volvo 240 sedan, 1990 Volvo 740 Turbo sedan, 1987 Volvo 240 DL sedan, 1990 Peugeot 405 DL Sportswagon, 1985 Peugeot 505 Turbo sedan, 1985 Merkur XR4Ti, 1983 Renault R9 Alliance DL sedan, 1979 Chevrolet Caprice Classic wagon, 1975 Volkswagen Transporter, 1980 Fiat X-1/9 Bertone, 1979 Volkswagen Rabbit C 3-Door hatch, 1976 Ford Pinto V6 coupe, 1952 Chevrolet Styleline Deluxe sedan

"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom." ~ Isaac Asimov

"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses." - Johannes Kepler

"One of the most cowardly things ordinary people do is to shut their eyes to facts." - C.S. Lewis

Vinsanity

I can't say I like it, but I can see where they're going with this. They're making the DTS compete with the Lexus ES. Those two cars have a pretty strong lockdown on the "old fogey" luxury car segment, with the ES being a preferable choice to most individual shoppers due to being less unweildy. Caddy is taking the DTS styling and pillowy-ness and trimming it down to a tighter package. Think early-80's D-body vs. late-80's C-body transition. Again, I can't say I like the change. The biggest reason to get a DTS is to say you have the biggest Caddy sedan available. I'm still holding out hope that the STS is going to evolve as a LWB version of the 2nd gen CTS.

This is the most troubling thing to me:

QuoteSince then Cadillac's parent company has faltered financially, CAFE legislation has came down hard and GM's main cash source (U.S. government) wants them to focus on fuel efficient small cars. This is throwing Cadillac off track it appears and the derailment is going to hit hard with the announcement that the Epsilon II DTS replacement has been green-lighted.

Ironic, but not surprising in the least that Cadillac has to suffer as a result of it's parent company's bailout. And to be honest, I would rather see them die while making cars they were meant to make, than bend to the will of the likes of BHO and Nancy No-good Pelosi.

Galaxy

Quote from: MrH on April 08, 2009, 10:08:37 AM
He's shaking his head at the fact you said it's front wheel drive based.  In this country, it's not.  They're all AWD, and not front wheel biased.


The D3 is still FWD biased. If you remove the AWD components you are left with a FWD car, unlike the  S class 4matic where you have a RWD car if you remove the components. That is also why the D3 has the engine pushed forward so far, which gives it a weight balance penalty.

Colonel Cadillac

I think livery drivers like the FWD DTS vs. the RWD Town Car.


Submariner

Quote from: Vinsanity on April 08, 2009, 02:57:28 PM
I can't say I like it, but I can see where they're going with this. They're making the DTS compete with the Lexus ES. Those two cars have a pretty strong lockdown on the "old fogey" luxury car segment, with the ES being a preferable choice to most individual shoppers due to being less unweildy. Caddy is taking the DTS styling and pillowy-ness and trimming it down to a tighter package. Think early-80's D-body vs. late-80's C-body transition. Again, I can't say I like the change. The biggest reason to get a DTS is to say you have the biggest Caddy sedan available. I'm still holding out hope that the STS is going to evolve as a LWB version of the 2nd gen CTS.

This is the most troubling thing to me:

Ironic, but not surprising in the least that Cadillac has to suffer as a result of it's parent company's bailout. And to be honest, I would rather see them die while making cars they were meant to make, than bend to the will of the likes of BHO and Nancy No-good Pelosi.

The government getting involved and whole heartedly fucking it up?  Nooooooo way!
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

ifcar

Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on April 08, 2009, 03:58:40 PM
I think livery drivers like the FWD DTS vs. the RWD Town Car.

Really? I've heard just the opposite.

Vinsanity

Quote from: ifcar on April 09, 2009, 04:19:41 AM
Really? I've heard just the opposite.

Mechanics might prefer the ubiquity of the Town Car's layout, but I can't imagine what advantageous driving charateristics the Town Car has over the DTS. Besides being able to do powerslides and donuts, of course.

Laconian

No transmission tunnel = good for legroom.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

NomisR

Quote from: Vinsanity on April 09, 2009, 12:53:38 PM
Mechanics might prefer the ubiquity of the Town Car's layout, but I can't imagine what advantageous driving charateristics the Town Car has over the DTS. Besides being able to do powerslides and donuts, of course.

Isn't that what old people secretly do when everyone is out working or in school?

Tave

Quote from: NomisR on April 09, 2009, 01:01:00 PM
Isn't that what old people secretly do when everyone is out working or in school?

I've been sitting on my ass for the past few weeks, and I have yet to see my elderly neighbor, Mr Aras, do anything of the sort with his Lincoln. :nono:
As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me.

Quote from: thecarnut on March 16, 2008, 10:33:43 AM
Depending on price, that could be a good deal.

Vinsanity

Quote from: NomisR on April 09, 2009, 01:01:00 PM
Isn't that what old people secretly do when everyone is out working or in school?

:lol:

That's my biggest motivation yet to aim for an early retirement :ohyeah:

NomisR

Quote from: Tave on April 09, 2009, 01:11:05 PM
I've been sitting on my ass for the past few weeks, and I have yet to see my elderly neighbor, Mr Aras, do anything of the sort with his Lincoln. :nono:

They know you're watching. 


ifcar

Quote from: Vinsanity on April 09, 2009, 12:53:38 PM
Mechanics might prefer the ubiquity of the Town Car's layout, but I can't imagine what advantageous driving charateristics the Town Car has over the DTS. Besides being able to do powerslides and donuts, of course.

Durability and widespread parts availability. The same thing that makes cops and cab drivers love the CV.

ifcar

QuoteThe Town Car's popularity as a fleet vehicle owes to its longevity and durability, as well as its size, comfort and price, says Martin Romjue, the editor of Limousine & Chauffeured Transportation, a trade magazine.

Longevity: Ford's Lincoln division started making a Town Car edition of its land-yacht Continental in the 1950s, though the first official Lincoln Town Car didn't hit the market until 1981. Durability: The Town Car holds up in tough city driving (fleet owner Habib Khan of Regal Limousine in Sterling has 300,000 miles on one of his) and has been around so long that replacement parts are abundant. Comfort: Plenty of trunk and legroom in this beast (if not, the slightly stretchy L series model provides an extra six inches).

The Town Car's biggest appeal, however, may be its price. The 2009 model lists for $45,815, but that's for suckers who pay retail. Romjue says fleet companies get volume discounts that can knock the car's price down to around $35,000 to $40,000 per vehicle, at which point it undercuts the Caddies, Lexi and Mercedeses.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/08/AR2009010803803.html

Vinsanity

Quote from: ifcar on April 09, 2009, 07:02:17 PM
Durability and widespread parts availability. The same thing that makes cops and cab drivers love the CV.

Are the mechanics and drivers the same people in these fleet services?

ifcar

Quote from: Vinsanity on April 09, 2009, 07:11:36 PM
Are the mechanics and drivers the same people in these fleet services?

Not necessarily, but the owner of the fleet both buys the car and pays the repair bills.

2o6

Quote from: ifcar on April 09, 2009, 07:02:17 PM
Durability and widespread parts availability. The same thing that makes cops and cab drivers love the CV.


It's different in different locales. The DTS is usually preferred because of the Size and space efficiency over the Town Car. Yeah, the towncar is easy to fix, but the DTS is better to drive and has more room for the customers.