Infiniti M!

[cawimmer430]

Yeah.

And the RL with the 5er and E-Class, right?

Logic dictates that the RL is bigger and thus offers more interior space. It's basically a class above the TL. Right?

[ifcar]

Wait, wait. The TL competes with the 3er right?

Yes, but it's Accord-based; bigger than the 3-Series.

[CALL_911]

And the RL with the 5er and E-Class, right?

Logic dictates that the RL is bigger and thus offers more interior space. It's basically a class above the TL. Right?

Right.

Logic dictates that, but Honda didn't necessarily follow that logic. The RL is loaded with high tech shit, and that's what they're pushing to sell the car. It hasn't ever sold well. Besides, the TL probably has just as much, if not more, high tech shit. And it's bigger and more powerful.

[cawimmer430]

Yes, but it's Accord-based; bigger than the 3-Series.

So the TL offers just the same amount of space as an RL?

[cawimmer430]

Right.

Logic dictates that, but Honda didn't necessarily follow that logic. The RL is loaded with high tech shit, and that's what they're pushing to sell the car. It hasn't ever sold well. Besides, the TL probably has just as much, if not more, high tech shit. And it's bigger and more powerful.

In other words: RL = FAIL? 

[ifcar]

So the TL offers just the same amount of space as an RL?

Yes.

[ifcar]

In other words: RL = FAIL? 

Again, it's not that it's bad on its own. It's that Acura upstaged it with the TL.

[cawimmer430]

Again, it's not that it's bad on its own. It's that Acura upstaged it with the TL.

I see. So the TL is essentially better value. You get more car for your money.

Didn't Acura upgrade the RL recently? Guess  they didn't do much...

[ifcar]

I see. So the TL is essentially better value. You get more car for your money.

Didn't Acura upgrade the RL recently? Guess  they didn't do much...

Bigger engine and modified styling, but they also gave the TL that same bigger engine.

[cawimmer430]

Bigger engine and modified styling, but they also gave the TL that same bigger engine.

Now I see why people hate on Acura for the lack of a V8.

[Cookie Monster]

I love this car. It looks fantastic.

[S204STi]

I dig the wavy lookin' seats.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I like it, which isn't hard since i like the G37 sedan and coupe.

Infiniti has a chance to finally achieve what it set out to do almost 20 years ago. With a solid G and a revised M(maybe a M coupe) all that is left is to do the Q right and they will have a solid full 3 car lineup. Something they have never had in the past.

While I hope for a manual(fat chance) I imagine that this motor pumping out 400+ ponies mated to the very well reviewed 7 speed automatic in the G37 sport would make a nice combo for a nice luxury/sport sedan.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Just had another thought.

The G, M and Q would make a full line(with G and M coupes).

If they play their cards right and start seeing the sales that would give them some cash flow. I would like to see the J make a comeback in the form of a 4 door coupe(the new one could be based off the M, in V8 trim only).

[ifcar]

Just had another thought.

The G, M and Q would make a full line(with G and M coupes).

If they play their cards right and start seeing the sales that would give them some cash flow. I would like to see the J make a comeback in the form of a 4 door coupe(the new one could be based off the M, in V8 trim only).

Unless Nissan already has something in Japan that would make a good Q, that is not where Nissan should be investing its money.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Unless Nissan already has something in Japan that would make a good Q, that is not where Nissan should be investing its money.

Nissan(infiniti), unlike GM, has a platform that is expandable and adaptable across many segments. The Q would be nothing more than a stretched M with a top spec V8(or possibly a unique motor, the largest cost) and all the fixins'.

Infiniti will be releasing a new Q, they are fully aware of the need for a Flagship sedan. They have been delaying it, but for the(it appears) purpose of solidifying the lower models in their luxury line.

[TBR]

In other words: RL = FAIL? 

Since day one.

And, wimmer, you say that everyone is biased against MB, have you ever thought that perhaps, maybe (now this is really stretching it..) you're just such an ardent fan that you think that anyone who is ambivalent to things like badge is biased against them?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I didn't know everyone was biased against mercedes(on this forum).

Maybe i haven't paid enough attention.

Either way, wimmer isn't without a leg to stand on. I'm a BMW person, I prefer the sporty tilt of their luxury cars. With that said I absolutely LOVE mercedes cars. Even though i prefer BMW, I have no problem admitting that Mercedes is the "better" luxury brand.

[sportyaccordy]

I have a question. Are Americans that sensitive?

I mean the RL must offer more space than a TL, right? I have a hard time believing someone buying an RL will feel annoyed if a cheaper TL has more horsepower. Everyone here seems to think people go for cars based on horsepower and performance output - there is much more to a car than that and everyone here seems to be ignoring those aspects IMO.

It's not even that. Feature wise and space wise the TL SH-AWD is pretty much an uglier RL for $8000-12000 less. The RL is supposed to be a flagship and it doesn't even match up against the TL. It's the same deal that made the original RL such a waste.

[sportyaccordy]

Just had another thought.

The G, M and Q would make a full line(with G and M coupes).

If they play their cards right and start seeing the sales that would give them some cash flow. I would like to see the J make a comeback in the form of a 4 door coupe(the new one could be based off the M, in V8 trim only).

Yea this would be a pretty solid plan. I have always said they need to make the Q with a big ass V12 off the FM platform. They could just melt 2 VQs together.

The J is a good plan too. Maybe you are in the wrong business.

I still think they should also offer a smaller motor in the G. Do a G30, G40, G50. But w/e.

As far as the new M I love it. Very nice, easily the best looking car in class next to the XF.

[2o6]

Nissan(infiniti), unlike GM, has a platform that is expandable and adaptable across many segments. The Q would be nothing more than a stretched M with a top spec V8(or possibly a unique motor, the largest cost) and all the fixins'.

Infiniti will be releasing a new Q, they are fully aware of the need for a Flagship sedan. They have been delaying it, but for the(it appears) purpose of solidifying the lower models in their luxury line.

One: GM's platforms are VERY adaptable.

Two: I don't think the FM platform can go any larger. I think the M would be as large as it can get.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

One: GM's platforms are VERY adaptable.

Two: I don't think the FM platform can go any larger. I think the M would be as large as it can get.

Define VERY adaptable.

It seems that the STS cannot be stretched to yield a true fullsize competitor(apparently width is an issue) and the CTS can barely be used to make a replacement STS(which it isn't, since a stretched malibu/lacrosse will be used for that).

Face it, GM used the one good platform they had(is it sigma?) for the STS and could not use it for much else(SRX, but that was replaced with a tarted up vue).

Compared to the nissan FM platform(which spawned the 350/370Z, G sedan/coupe, M, FX, EX and most likely a future Q car) GM doesn't even come clost to having a platform that is as capable as the FM(as far as being able to underpin a wide rance of sport/luxury products).

[2o6]

Define VERY adaptable.

It seems that the STS cannot be stretched to yield a true fullsize competitor(apparently width is an issue) and the CTS can barely be used to make a replacement STS(which it isn't, since a stretched malibu/lacrosse will be used for that).

Face it, GM used the one good platform they had(is it sigma?) for the STS and could not use it for much else(SRX, but that was replaced with a tarted up vue).

Compared to the nissan FM platform(which spawned the 350/370Z, G sedan/coupe, M, FX, EX and most likely a future Q car) GM doesn't even come clost to having a platform that is as capable as the FM(as far as being able to underpin a wide rance of sport/luxury products).

Theta has Delta roots. (GM compact cars, GM small SUV's)

The SRX competes with the much more competitive Lexus RX. (Likely, that's what the old SRX was priced against)

Sigma II (new CTS) shares a LOT of parts with Zeta. The new "alpha" platform that will underpin the next ATS/BLS will likely come from a shortened Sigma.

Epsilon and Epsilon II house a smorgasbord of cars.

Lambda comes from Epsilon.

GM SCCS (Gamma) was developed with Fiat.

Kappa used parts from pretty much all GM platforms including the Corvette.

And of course, you have Zeta itself.

Saying that GM is unadaptable is quite ignorant.

-------------

The STS is to Cadillac is what the RL is to Acura. Both are nice vehicles, but their cheaper stablemates match or better it in every way.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Theta has Delta roots. (GM compact cars, GM small SUV's)

The SRX competes with the much more competitive Lexus RX. (Likely, that's what the old SRX was priced against)

Sigma II (new CTS) shares a LOT of parts with Zeta. The new "alpha" platform that will underpin the next ATS/BLS will likely come from a shortened Sigma.

Epsilon and Epsilon II house a smorgasbord of cars.

Lambda comes from Epsilon.

GM SCCS (Gamma) was developed with Fiat.

Kappa used parts from pretty much all GM platforms including the Corvette.

And of course, you have Zeta itself.

Saying that GM is unadaptable is quite ignorant.

-------------

The STS is to Cadillac is what the RL is to Acura. Both are nice vehicles, but their cheaper stablemates match or better it in every way.

So the SRX is on theta

The CTS on sigma II

The STS on Zeta?

The future ats/bts will be on Alpha

and the rumored XTS will ride on a modified Ep/Epsilon II

Meanwhile at Infiniti they have the FM that underpins the G Sedan/Coupe, M, EX and FX.

So cadillac will have 5 cars on 5 different platforms and Infiniti has to make due with 1 platform for 4 different segments.

Well fire up the ignorant train cause i'm coming aboard, you can't possibly think GM is even remotely adaptable when they continue to shuffle and add new platforms while droping half used platforms like Zeta.

BTW, Zeta is getting dropped because apparently they can't ADAPT IT TO OTHER MODELS.

[the Teuton]

Carlos Ghosn, if anything, created a cost consolidation method within Renault/Nissan that has just recently become a model for a profitable, competitive car company.  I know that sounds like an excuse to allow GM to perform poorly, but it's really not.  Ford wouldn't be coming back if it weren't for the Way Forward and One Ford plans that are somewhat modeled on what Ghosn did.

I think GM is inherently flawed, but I can't see them not working on some of their problems.  And yeah, I think everything they have should be a Zeta, Sigma, or Kappa, but that's for them to figure out now.  That's not really our problem.

[Vinsanity]

The STS on Zeta?

Currently, the STS is on Sigma I

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Currently, the STS is on Sigma I

That was the one i was unsure about.

[2o6]

Meanwhile at Infiniti they have the FM that underpins the G Sedan/Coupe, M, EX and FX.

So cadillac will have 5 cars on 5 different platforms and Infiniti has to make due with 1 platform for 4 different segments.


Well fire up the ignorant train cause i'm coming aboard, you can't possibly think GM is even remotely adaptable when they continue to shuffle and add new platforms while droping half used platforms like Zeta.

Yet again, they're not wasting R&D funds by developing new platforms. They're simply adapting base platforms to fill whatever niche they need.

BTW, Zeta is getting dropped because apparently they can't ADAPT IT TO OTHER MODELS.

Not true. It's just too costly and would wreck their CAFE average to manufacture more cars on Zeta. The Camaro uses Zeta.

But those really aren't different, all-new platforms. The Lambda platform sharing with the Epsilon would be in similar vein of how the Quest and Murano share platforms with the Altima.

Carlos Ghosn, if anything, created a cost consolidation method within Renault/Nissan that has just recently become a model for a profitable, competitive car company.  I know that sounds like an excuse to allow GM to perform poorly, but it's really not.  Ford wouldn't be coming back if it weren't for the Way Forward and One Ford plans that are somewhat modeled on what Ghosn did.

I think GM is inherently flawed, but I can't see them not working on some of their problems.  And yeah, I think everything they have should be a Zeta, Sigma, or Kappa, but that's for them to figure out now.  That's not really our problem.

I agree.

[Raza]

Is this different from the G?

[2o6]

Is this different from the G?

Huh? It replaces the current M.


This car competes more with the 5-series, GS and E-class crowd.