Lite Mercedes C-Class Facelift

[CALL_911]

Lets be honest guys, this is why you buy a C-class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXJkNmqEgZ4

mmmm, I'd love a C63 AMG.

[the Teuton]

I hate the seats in the C63. If I wanted Evo seats in an ultra fast car, I'd buy an Evo.

[Hachee]

Thank you for that diversion!!  One of the best looking cars of all time.  The lines, the details, the cleanliness - just awesome, then and now.

[GoCougs]

Lets be honest guys, this is why you buy a C-class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXJkNmqEgZ4

Actually, Americans buy the C-class because they can't afford the E-class - they want the badge and "prestige" yet can't admit to themselves from a form/function/ownership standpoint they're far off spending that money on a loaded Camry or Accord. In short, they're posers.

[Submariner]

Actually, Americans buy the C-class because they can't afford the E-class - they want the badge and "prestige" yet can't admit to themselves from a form/function/ownership standpoint they're far off spending that money on a loaded Camry or Accord. In short, they're posers.

A poser is someone who changes the "S430" badges out for "S600" and throws on a liberal coating of "V12" and "Bi-Turbo". 

A C-class in infinitely more entertaining than a Camry, looks better (IMO, though I think most would agree) is built better, etc.  The new C is leaps and bounds above it's predecessor in terms of build quality, and it appears electronic issues are sparse.  Though, I may be wrong about the electronics.

[Xer0]

Actually, Americans buy the C-class because they can't afford the E-class - they want the badge and "prestige" yet can't admit to themselves from a form/function/ownership standpoint they're far off spending that money on a loaded Camry or Accord. In short, they're posers.

You might have a case if you're talking about a base C300 with like nothing on it since it and a loaded Camcord are within ~2K of each other.  But to compare it to a C63 is just silly.

[cawimmer430]

Why is someone who buys a C300 a poser? 

Some people don't need the extra power of the C350. Hell, I bet half the people in the US buying the C300 are much better served with a C180 Kompressor.

Is my sister a poser because she bought a 118i? 

[NomisR]

Why is someone who buys a C300 a poser? 

Some people don't need the extra power of the C350. Hell, I bet half the people in the US buying the C300 are much better served with a C180 Kompressor.

Is my sister a poser because she bought a 118i? 

Well, because in the US, there are typically better equipped cars to be hard for less money than buyiing a "premium" brand, especially if it comes with Vinyl, not that much standard equipment, smaller, and drives just as well. 

I'm comparing the US market here...

[Raza]

Actually, Americans buy the C-class because they can't afford the E-class - they want the badge and "prestige" yet can't admit to themselves from a form/function/ownership standpoint they're far off spending that money on a loaded Camry or Accord. In short, they're posers.

People buy an E class because they can't afford an S class.  And people only buy S classes because they can't afford a Bentley.  And people only buy Bentleys because they can't afford Rolls Royces.  And people who buy Rolls Royces because they can't afford a helicopter.  And people only buy helicopters because they can't afford a private jet.  And if you can afford a private jet, you should probably just drive an Accord anyway, because the Accord is the epitome of transportation.

[NomisR]

People buy an E class because they can't afford an S class.  And people only buy S classes because they can't afford a Bentley.  And people only buy Bentleys because they can't afford Rolls Royces.  And people who buy Rolls Royces because they can't afford a helicopter.  And people only buy helicopters because they can't afford a private jet.  And if you can afford a private jet, you should probably just drive an Accord anyway, because the Accord is the epitome of transportation.

I'd still get a Rolls Royce and a Helicopter even if I can afford a private jet because you need a way to travel around to places where you can land in the jet and the chopper...

[Eye of the Tiger]

Swift would fit inside my private jet. Swift >>>>>> Accord

[Submariner]

I'd still get a Rolls Royce and a Helicopter even if I can afford a private jet because you need a way to travel around to places where you can land in the jet and the chopper...

Harrier?

[NomisR]

Harrier?

That would work, but parking can still be an issue since you would end up taking at least 6 parking spaces..

you might get your harrier keyed for doing that..

[Submariner]

That would work, but parking can still be an issue since you would end up taking at least 6 parking spaces..

you might get your harrier keyed for doing that..

Hit the punks with your 20mm cannon.

They won't key you up again, guaranteed!

[Raza]

I'd still get a Rolls Royce and a Helicopter even if I can afford a private jet because you need a way to travel around to places where you can land in the jet and the chopper...

If you weren't such a poseur, you'd be able to have runways installed wherever you wanted to land. 

[NomisR]

If you weren't such a poseur, you'd be able to have runways installed wherever you wanted to land. 

I am so ashamed of myself...

I think i'll build myself a land based aircraft carrier that I can drive across the country instead..

[cawimmer430]

Well, because in the US, there are typically better equipped cars to be hard for less money than buyiing a "premium" brand, especially if it comes with Vinyl, not that much standard equipment, smaller, and drives just as well. 

I'm comparing the US market here...

Yeah, but a Camry or Accord is still a Camry and an Accord. Boring mainstream sedans that might be well-equipped and great value-for-money but that's about it. The people buying an entry-level luxury car usually want a luxury car (from a luxury brand with status) and they feel the performance of an entry-level luxury car is either completely satisfactory or they simply don't care about performance at all and just want to experience the car in some way or another.

Nobody who buys a 318i or C180 Kompressor here is called a poser even when you can get a Renault Laguna V6 or Citroen C5 V6 for less money - and these cars are faster and come well-equipped. Renault and Citroen are mainstream, BMW and Mercedes are not.

[NomisR]

Yeah, but a Camry or Accord is still a Camry and an Accord. Boring mainstream sedans that might be well-equipped and great value-for-money but that's about it. The people buying an entry-level luxury car usually want a luxury car (from a luxury brand with status) and they feel the performance of an entry-level luxury car is either completely satisfactory or they simply don't care about performance at all and just want to experience the car in some way or another.

Nobody who buys a 318i or C180 Kompressor here is called a poser even when you can get a Renault Laguna V6 or Citroen C5 V6 for less money - and these cars are faster and come well-equipped. Renault and Citroen are mainstream, BMW and Mercedes are not.

So.. you spend more money on a car that is worse performing, worse equipped and is not better built than another car... and all you get is a badge to show that you're driving a "luxury" car..

What in fact makes a luxury car a luxury car then?  A badge does not make something better.. to think so would make one a.. poseur..

[cawimmer430]

So.. you spend more money on a car that is worse performing, worse equipped and is not better built than another car... and all you get is a badge to show that you're driving a "luxury" car..

What in fact makes a luxury car a luxury car then?  A badge does not make something better.. to think so would make one a.. poseur..

Why does everything here come down to "performance"? Most car-buying people out there don't give a damn about 0-60. As long as the performance is adequate to their needs they are happy.

Does the 118i I currently drive on a daily basis "perform worse"? I don't think so. Contrary to what people here might think I am not a sucker for a slow cars as I believe in a certain performance standard and I can tell you that a 118i is a good performer. It's not slow at all. I can overtake safely on country roads or on the Autobahn. It's not a problem at all from a performance perspective and if you have the proper driver training (aka USING YOUR HEAD and THINKING). I've never had a problem with the 10 second 0-100 km/h time. I realize it isn't the fastest car out there but I don't care. The performance is completely adequate to my needs, those of my sister and my parents. I've said this many times before but I find a Mercedes C180 Kompressor far more appealing than the C63 AMG. I can get so much more out of a C180 Kompressor when it comes to a daily driver basis than the C63 AMG.

Europeans view a V6 in cars like Citroen C5 or Laguna as being completely overkill. You should hear the opinions some people here have about America and its wasteful ways. And for your information the V6 available in the Citroen C5 is a DIESEL with 241-horsepower (aka "completely underpowered" by American standards). There is no gasoline engine V6 available for the current C5. And furthermore, how many V6 Citroen C5's or V6 Laguna's are sold in Europe? Very few. A "handful" - literally. Few people here buy a mainstream car because of performance. They want value-for-money and something comfortable and family friendly. The performance of your regular 2.0-engined (gas or diesel) mainstreamers here is completely acceptable and more than adequate to most European buyers.

[Pommes-T]

You guys still discuss this bullshit? 

[Vinsanity]

Europeans view a V6 in cars like Citroen C5 or Laguna as being completely overkill. You should hear the opinions some people here have about America and its wasteful ways. And for your information the V6 available in the Citroen C5 is a DIESEL with 241-horsepower (aka "completely underpowered" by American standards). There is no gasoline engine V6 available for the current C5. And furthermore, how many V6 Citroen C5's or V6 Laguna's are sold in Europe? Very few. A "handful" - literally. Few people here buy a mainstream car because of performance. They want value-for-money and something comfortable and family friendly. The performance of your regular 2.0-engined (gas or diesel) mainstreamers here is completely acceptable and more than adequate to most European buyers.

That's because you guys are pansies.

But really, what objective advantage does a stripper C-class have over a fully loaded Hyundai Grandeur at the same price?

[cawimmer430]

That's because you guys are pansies.

No. We are realistic.

We buy what we need because local automotive laws and taxations have essentially forced us to be realistic.

But really, what objective advantage does a stripper C-class have over a fully loaded Hyundai Grandeur at the same price?

The advantage is in the mind of the buyer. Someone might feel his C-Class is more prestigious than a Hyundai for example. And the engines offered here in say the Hyundai Sonata are hardly quicker than the C180 Kompressor or C200 Kompressor. In fact they are slower: http://www.hyundai.de/downloads/Sonata_TechnischeDaten.pdf

The Sonata 3.3 V6 doesn't sell at all here.

And a C-Class comes equipped with all the necessary features that a normal person would ever need. A Hyundai here isn't much different. It might have more standard features than a base C-Class but these don't necessarily give it an advantage in the minds of consumers. Most people here will find your typical C-Class to have everything they need. They might order a few options they want and buy a navigation system for 300 Euros from an electronics store and boom - they have their dream car.

Besides, nobody cross-shops a Hyundai and a Mercedes here in Europe. Hyundai stands for value here. Mercedes doesn't.

[NomisR]

That's because you guys are pansies.

But really, what objective advantage does a stripper C-class have over a fully loaded Hyundai Grandeur at the same price?

Also, from my driving experience in Europe, Europeans are not assholes like Americans are when it comes to driving.  It means you can actually pass people with a 70hp car whereas it would be impossible to do so in the US.  You know why?  Because every time you pull out to pass something, the asshole that was lane camping thinks you're challenging their manhood so they would speed up and stay by your side so you can't change back into that lane or pass them.. until you either get blocked by another car or slow down.. either way, the car with more power wins.  That's why I need more power so I don't get stuck behind some insecure jackass that doesn't know how to drive properly.

[Vinsanity]

No. We are realistic.

We buy what we need because local automotive laws and taxations have essentially forced us to be realistic.

Like I said. Pansies. Especially your lawmakers, apparently.

The advantage is in the mind of the buyer. Someone might feel his C-Class is more prestigious than a Hyundai for example.

I said objective advantages.

And a C-Class comes equipped with all the necessary features that a normal person would ever need. A Hyundai here isn't much different. It might have more standard features than a base C-Class but these don't necessarily give it an advantage in the minds of consumers. Most people here will find your typical C-Class to have everything they need. They might order a few options they want and buy a navigation system for 300 Euros from an electronics store and boom - they have their dream car.

But the question everyone is asking is if someone only wants a car with just the bare necessities, then why buy from a luxury marque at all, when luxury is supposed to be about more than just the bare necessities. And if that's not what luxury is about, then what is?

[Vinsanity]

Also, from my driving experience in Europe, Europeans are not assholes like Americans are when it comes to driving.  It means you can actually pass people with a 70hp car whereas it would be impossible to do so in the US.  You know why?  Because every time you pull out to pass something, the asshole that was lane camping thinks you're challenging their manhood so they would speed up and stay by your side so you can't change back into that lane or pass them.. until you either get blocked by another car or slow down.. either way, the car with more power wins.  That's why I need more power so I don't get stuck behind some insecure jackass that doesn't know how to drive properly.

hehe. just last week, some d00d in an Audi A4 "proved" his manhood to me by accelerating to 80 mph on a surface road to keep me from passing him after he pulled out from a side street.

[NomisR]

But the question everyone is asking is if someone only wants a car with just the bare necessities, then why buy from a luxury marque at all, when luxury is supposed to be about more than just the bare necessities. And if that's not what luxury is about, then what is?

Prestige and heritage... the fact that you knew that you have the Mercedes Benz tristar on your hood rather than a crooked Honda logo that turned into a Hyundai on your car.. hell, even Hyundai was embarassed to put their logo on their car, look at the Genesis sedan...

[Eye of the Tiger]

Swift wins, sometimes, but it takes much planning well in advance.

[NomisR]

Swift wins, sometimes, but it takes much planning well in advance.

Yeah, why would you get a Mercedes over a Swift?  

[cawimmer430]

Like I said. Pansies. Especially your lawmakers, apparently.

These laws also exist because of the environment. Something America doesn't give a shit about. 

But the question everyone is asking is if someone only wants a car with just the bare necessities, then why buy from a luxury marque at all, when luxury is supposed to be about more than just the bare necessities. And if that's not what luxury is about, then what is?

Because to most Europeans your standard C-Class has all the things they need. A base C200 CDI Classic - the lowest C-Class engine and trim available - comes with 2-Zone A/C and heating, electric windows front/rear, ABS/ESP, the same number of airbags all around as a C63 AMG, a radio, heated exterior side mirrors, rear window defroster and a few other minor details (http://www.mercedes-benz.de/content/germany/mpc/mpc_germany_website/de/home_mpc/passengercars/home/new_cars/models/c-class/w204/equipment_accessories/standard_optional_equipment.html).

To most Europeans, including myself, these are things that we need and these days expect as standard in our cars. Other things like an automatic transmission or a navigation system or leather seats are VALID options that people can order if they want or need it. For your average European, this is everything they require in a luxury or mainstream car. If they want more they can order it. In fact individualizing your car here is a big thing and getting the options YOU WANT is part of the appeal.

In fact most people spend the extra cash on other optionals. The most popular in general are a higher trim (Elegance / Avantgarde), automatic transmission, perhaps 4-Zone climate control and maybe different rims. Other options which are popular are MB-Tex or real leather seats, a navigation and more advanced radio system, a hands-free cellphone system etc.

[NomisR]

These laws also exist because of the environment. Something America doesn't give a shit about. 



Because to most Europeans your standard C-Class has all the things they need. A base C200 CDI Classic - the lowest C-Class engine and trim available - comes with 2-Zone A/C and heating, electric windows front/rear, ABS/ESP, the same number of airbags all around as a C63 AMG, a radio, heated exterior side mirrors, rear window defroster and a few other minor details (http://www.mercedes-benz.de/content/germany/mpc/mpc_germany_website/de/home_mpc/passengercars/home/new_cars/models/c-class/w204/equipment_accessories/standard_optional_equipment.html).

To most Europeans, including myself, these are things that we need and these days expect as standard in our cars. Other things like an automatic transmission or a navigation system or leather seats are VALID options that people can order if they want or need it. For your average European, this is everything they require in a luxury or mainstream car. If they want more they can order it. In fact individualizing your car here is a big thing and getting the options YOU WANT is part of the appeal.

In fact most people spend the extra cash on other optionals. The most popular in general are a higher trim (Elegance / Avantgarde), automatic transmission, perhaps 4-Zone climate control and maybe different rims. Other options which are popular are MB-Tex or real leather seats, a navigation and more advanced radio system, a hands-free cellphone system etc.

But you still didn't answer the question on what tangable advantage to get a stripper luxury vehicle over something else and pay a lot more for it?