Lite Mercedes C-Class Facelift

[cawimmer430]

Lets use this argument in favor of the Lexus ES/IS, both of which have very HQ interiors, moreso than the C-Class, IMO.

That has to count for something, right?

Let me ask you this. What makes silver-colored plastic more HQ than black-colored plastic? 

[NomisR]

Hmmm...the interior is well-made (aka quality). That has to count for something, right? 

So's a Toyota or Honda Camcord...   for something to exel in this segment, it should go above and beyond the mainstream cars and not just be the same. 

The problem is, the mainstream cars improved a lot a lot of the entry level luxury cars has not.. C Class is one of those.

[NomisR]

Let me ask you this. What makes silver-colored plastic more HQ than black-colored plastic? 

not all plastic are made equal.. if you ever get an chance, sit in the Evo X and look at the door handle area.. tell me that doesn't look cheap to you?  Now look at other cars... 

[cawimmer430]

So's a Toyota or Honda Camcord...   for something to exel in this segment, it should go above and beyond the mainstream cars and not just be the same. 

The problem is, the mainstream cars improved a lot a lot of the entry level luxury cars has not.. C Class is one of those.

Mercedes interiors have always been rather CONSERVATIVE. The quality is there though, especially in the W204. Go compare a W203 interior to that of a W204 cabin. The quality difference is like night and day. I'll say it one last time: the W204 cabin is a quality interior. So who cares if the overall look is a bit boring and spartan? It's part of what Mercedes interiors are: conservative. Even the S-Class and CL cockpits are conservative in design.

Mainstream cars have upped the bar, true, but there is only so much a luxury manufacturer can do to differentiate themselves from a mainstream manufacturer nowadays. And this is also where brand prestige / heritage can play a role. As a luxury manufacturer with credentials you can sell this heritage to people and that can differentiate you among other things. Also, no Camry or Accord shopper will consider a C-Class or 3-Series. Mainstream cars are still mainstream cars and they sell on price and value for the most part.

[cawimmer430]

not all plastic are made equal.. if you ever get an chance, sit in the Evo X and look at the door handle area.. tell me that doesn't look cheap to you?  Now look at other cars... 

Well, I for one found the Lexus IS interior to be extremely overrated - like most Lexus interiors. At first glance the shiny silver plastic might convince you. Spend time inside the cabin and you'll see that it isn't any better than other cars in its class.

And this whole dashboard stroking thing is really kind of weird. In none of the cars my family currently owns do I ever pay attention to the interior quality when I drive or sit in the car. The dashboard is there: as long as its ergonomical and gives me an impression of being well-made I am happy. I don't care if the panel gaps in the Lexus are 0.5 cm and 0.6 cm in the C-Class. 

[ifcar]

Well, I for one found the Lexus IS interior to be extremely overrated - like most Lexus interiors. At first glance the shiny silver plastic might convince you. Spend time inside the cabin and you'll see that it isn't any better than other cars in its class.

And this whole dashboard stroking thing is really kind of weird. In none of the cars my family currently owns do I ever pay attention to the interior quality when I drive or sit in the car. The dashboard is there: as long as its ergonomical and gives me an impression of being well-made I am happy. I don't care if the panel gaps in the Lexus are 0.5 cm and 0.6 cm in the C-Class. 

If you don't care about the interior as long as it's acceptable, or the power as long as it's acceptable...why not save your money and buy a mainstream car instead of a luxury one?

[cawimmer430]

If you don't care about the interior as long as it's acceptable, or the power as long as it's acceptable...why not save your money and buy a mainstream car instead of a luxury one?

Are you telling me luxury buyers in America care about such details?  

I find it strange that they don't go to dealerships with rulers and other measurement devices then...


"Honey, we're buying the Camry! The panel gaps measure only 0.4 cm compared to the Accord's 0.45 cm!"

[NomisR]

Mercedes interiors have always been rather CONSERVATIVE. The quality is there though, especially in the W204. Go compare a W203 interior to that of a W204 cabin. The quality difference is like night and day. I'll say it one last time: the W204 cabin is a quality interior. So who cares if the overall look is a bit boring and spartan? It's part of what Mercedes interiors are: conservative. Even the S-Class and CL cockpits are conservative in design.

Mainstream cars have upped the bar, true, but there is only so much a luxury manufacturer can do to differentiate themselves from a mainstream manufacturer nowadays. And this is also where brand prestige / heritage can play a role. As a luxury manufacturer with credentials you can sell this heritage to people and that can differentiate you among other things. Also, no Camry or Accord shopper will consider a C-Class or 3-Series. Mainstream cars are still mainstream cars and they sell on price and value for the most part.

Well, I for one found the Lexus IS interior to be extremely overrated - like most Lexus interiors. At first glance the shiny silver plastic might convince you. Spend time inside the cabin and you'll see that it isn't any better than other cars in its class.

And this whole dashboard stroking thing is really kind of weird. In none of the cars my family currently owns do I ever pay attention to the interior quality when I drive or sit in the car. The dashboard is there: as long as its ergonomical and gives me an impression of being well-made I am happy. I don't care if the panel gaps in the Lexus are 0.5 cm and 0.6 cm in the C-Class. 

I agree with one thing, I don't like the flashiness of interiors either, too much silver, glittery stuff just makes the interior looks cheap.  Look at the American "luxury" makes or Infiniti, the interior, while made for the luxury market, just does not have a luxurious feel but more of cheap.  It has no style or design of luxury.  You can have simplistic elegance, none of those are it.

And yes, while you are correct that the W204 is a HUGE improvement over W203, it's no longer enough.  If you've been ahead and people caught up to you, consumers will still give you a pass because you've been there.  The problem with Mercedes is, they've fallen way behind on the scale and looked really cheap in the 90s and only started catching up to the luxury market in the past years.. the standard is now a lot higher.

Maybe because in Germany, you'll find a lot of the "luxury" makes also used as regular cars with basic trims so it's ok, but the same cars are sold as luxury cars, and luxury cars should be that.. luxurious.. it doesn't have to be "bling"  That's not luxury, that's tacky... there's a difference between quality and flashy..

[the Teuton]

The E90 3 Series, in most lower trim levels (and especially in AWD guise), sucks miserably.

There. I said it, I meant it, and I'm here to represent it.

[cawimmer430]

And yes, while you are correct that the W204 is a HUGE improvement over W203, it's no longer enough.  If you've been ahead and people caught up to you, consumers will still give you a pass because you've been there.  The problem with Mercedes is, they've fallen way behind on the scale and looked really cheap in the 90s and only started catching up to the luxury market in the past years.. the standard is now a lot higher.

Actually I see it differently. This wasn't a problem that affected only Mercedes.

ALL interiors from ALL brands have improved recently because the standards have been set higher and improvement in precision machinery enable manufacturers to reach new levels of quality. Claiming Mercedes is behind in this regard is a bit silly since I don't particularly find the 3-Series, IS and A4 interiors that good. The A4 cabin is often claimed to be the "best" but I question the validity of the claim since I've spent time in each of these cars and I've basically found them all to be great interiors but none was particularly better than the other. I find the A4 cabin to be quite overrated. It's a good interior, but what makes it better than the rest? I don't see it. Never seen the new G37 interior in person so I can't comment on it.

Interiors from Mercedes or Lexus from the early 1990s now look "cheap" in a way compared to what is on sale today. A W126 interior and an LS400 interior might have been the standard in its day, but these days they're still blown away by the current S-Class and LS in terms of precision engineering, quality and material choices. Hell, my dads 1989 500SL has an interior which might have been great in the day but now feels outclassed by the current R230 SL - despite THAT cockpit having less wood and more DARK PLASTIC surfaces overall. See my point?

Maybe because in Germany, you'll find a lot of the "luxury" makes also used as regular cars with basic trims so it's ok, but the same cars are sold as luxury cars, and luxury cars should be that.. luxurious.. it doesn't have to be "bling"  That's not luxury, that's tacky... there's a difference between quality and flashy..

The differences aren't actually that great. In Europe you can get a W204 C-Class or W212 E-Class in Classic, Elegance and Avantgarde trim with the latter two being the more upscale and luxurious trim. The differences are very small. Different color combinations, more dark plastic here and there and the absence of chrome are characteristics of the base Classic trim level for example. Everything else such as the materials used for the control surfaces are the same.

Here:

C-Class Classic


C-Class Elegance


C-Class Avantgarde



In my experience we Europeans are happy with our interiors as long as they feel and look well-made and are ergonomical in operation. We don't make a big deal out of silver or black plastic or pink plastic - it's still plastic in the end and we have no real way of telling how good a quality it is. Unless we have a background in chemistry and can somehow dissect a sample for testing...  

[cawimmer430]

The E90 3 Series, in most lower trim levels (and especially in AWD guise), sucks miserably.

There. I said it, I meant it, and I'm here to represent it.

This is an E90 318i interior.





Looks good to me. The quality and workmanship seem to be there. It's simply not flashy. It's spartan and conservative in appearance but that doesn't mean it sucks or is cheap.

[the Teuton]

Oh, it's well-built, but it's terribly boring, mundane, and not really "fun" or elegant. I was just trying to prove a point of subjectivity.

[cawimmer430]

Oh, it's well-built, but it's terribly boring, mundane, and not really "fun" or elegant. I was just trying to prove a point of subjectivity.

What a nice contrast!

3-Series interior: BORING

3-Series as a car: FUN


Great contrast! 

[the Teuton]

Wimmer, you're hopeless. I mean that in the nicest way possible.

[cawimmer430]

Wimmer, you're hopeless. I mean that in the nicest way possible.

Say it in German and I'll have more respect for you. 

[CALL_911]

The badge is one part that some people find appealing in the C-Class. But the car has other qualities too which nobody here seems to acknowledge.

Comfort is a point which we've acknowledged and dismissed. The badge is a moot point. What other "qualities" are we missing?

[CALL_911]

The E90 3 Series, in most lower trim levels (and especially in AWD guise), sucks miserably.

There. I said it, I meant it, and I'm here to represent it.

[the Teuton]

I'd rather have an A4 or an E46 than an E90.

[CALL_911]

I'd rather have an A4 or an E46 than an E90.

I'd rather have an E90 328i (not xi) over an A4.

[Vinsanity]

I don't know about vs. the 3-series, and I haven't driven a W204 myself, but my dad took a road trip in one, and didn't find it very comfortable at all. Said the highway ride was too jittery, and not as smooth as the Cadillac. Hell, IMHO, his Hyundai is probably more comfortable

[the Teuton]

I'd rather have an E90 328i (not xi) over an A4.

The base 328i with a stick and RWD, and possibly the sport package, is a great car. But a Hyundai Elantra comes with more standard equipment for half the price.

[CALL_911]

The base 328i with a stick and RWD, and possibly the sport package, is a great car. But a Hyundai Elantra comes with more standard equipment for half the price.

Like?

[the Teuton]

Like?

I'm thinking...

You take things so literally. Damn.

Possibly cruise control?

A $17,000 Elantra has power windows, mirrors, door locks, cruise control, ESC, satellite radio, an automatic transmission (bletch!), a CD player...

Aha! I got it!

USB inputs for an MP3 player!

That's something on an expensive option for a BMW still...

[Cookie Monster]

I'm thinking...

You take things so literally. Damn.

Possibly cruise control?

A $17,000 Elantra has power windows, mirrors, door locks, cruise control, ESC, satellite radio, an automatic transmission (bletch!), a CD player...

Aha! I got it!

USB inputs for an MP3 player!

That's something on an expensive option for a BMW still...

OK, but you still get a higher quality interior, free 4 years/50k maintenance, RWD, more power, better handling, brakes, etc, plus the BMW badge is worth something as well, whether you like to admit it or not.

[saxonyron]

Well, I for one found the Lexus IS interior to be extremely overrated - like most Lexus interiors. At first glance the shiny silver plastic might convince you. Spend time inside the cabin and you'll see that it isn't any better than other cars in its class.

And this whole dashboard stroking thing is really kind of weird. In none of the cars my family currently owns do I ever pay attention to the interior quality when I drive or sit in the car. The dashboard is there: as long as its ergonomical and gives me an impression of being well-made I am happy. I don't care if the panel gaps in the Lexus are 0.5 cm and 0.6 cm in the C-Class. 

Minor details like an extra mm of panel gap don't mean a thing, but a cheap and plasticky interior to me will ruin any car - whether it's a high end luxury ride or a pickup truck.  I'm guessing you've spent too much time in nice Euro sedans.  You need to sit in a truly cheap and shitty interior to understand this.  I had a Chevy Malibu as a rental a couple years ago. The interior was so cheap and cheesy looking, it ruined an otherwise OK car.   Even my '06 Eddie Bauer Expedition had a cheaper interior than my '02 Expedition, and that diminished the truck for me.  Flimsy plastic panels with big gaps, a hard feeling, and rough untrimmed flash lines are inexcusable in any car. A nice dashboard does not a fine car make, but a shitty dashboard ruins the car.

[omicron]

[AltinD]

The E90 interiours really suck. The C-class is way better then those, but still lack something. However saying that a Camry or Accord interiours are HQ enough to compare is just ...

[CALL_911]

Aha! I got it!

USB inputs for an MP3 player!

That's something on an expensive option for a BMW still...

It still has an AUX input. Our damned A4 doesn't have one, which annoys the hell out of me.

[cawimmer430]

I don't know about vs. the 3-series, and I haven't driven a W204 myself, but my dad took a road trip in one, and didn't find it very comfortable at all. Said the highway ride was too jittery, and not as smooth as the Cadillac. Hell, IMHO, his Hyundai is probably more comfortable

Comfort is a subjective issue. There is no real way to measure it because different people will always have different responses and impressions to comfort.

[Xer0]

Lets be honest guys, this is why you buy a C-class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXJkNmqEgZ4