2011 Mustang GT 5.0

[FoMoJo]

Nah, you can buy GT500s at sticker all day long after the first few months from its introduction. Same will be with this Boss too. They may be popular and good but at the end of the day they're still just rapidly depreciating durable goods like any other car, not Rembrandts.

And 565 has it 100% right; it was time frame and history not badging. There were plenty of "Boss" and "Shelby" cars and other notable name plates such as "Z-28" to "Z06" to "R/T" from the '70s on onward, yet they're all worth squat.

It's rare to find a original series Shelby Mustang that sells for less than $100k.  Same with the Boss.  The original Boss 302 was produced in '69 and '70 only with limited production; less than 2,000 '69s and less than 8,000 '70s.  There were even fewer Boss 429s, about 800 altogether.  A Boss 429 in good condition sells for about $500K.

The new Boss is expected to be produced for only 2012 and 2013 model years with 4,000 made each year; including the 302R and Laguna Seca models.  If they stick to this limit MSRP will be a starting point for those lucky enough to get one.

[GoCougs]

It's rare to find a original series Shelby Mustang that sells for less than $100k.  Same with the Boss.  The original Boss 302 was produced in '69 and '70 only with limited production; less than 2,000 '69s and less than 8,000 '70s.  There were even fewer Boss 429s, about 800 altogether.  A Boss 429 in good condition sells for about $500K.

The new Boss is expected to be produced for only 2012 and 2013 model years with 4,000 made each year; including the 302R and Laguna Seca models.  If they stick to this limit MSRP will be a starting point for those lucky enough to get one.

The '69 ZL-1 Camaro fetches far higher prices than any Boss or Shelby Mustang yet the 2012 Camaro ZR1 ain't going to be nothing about nothing when it comes to holding value and collectibility save for government (again) ruining the auto industry in the near future.

[MX793]

There was a time when a number of the classic muscle and pony cars that are coveted today weren't worth much at all.  They really didn't start gaining value until they were decades old and there were fewer and fewer of them in decent shape.  If any of these new special editions are to be worth anything, it won't be anytime in the next 10 or even 15 years.  30 years from now, I think some of them might be worth something.

[the Teuton]

The '69 ZL-1 Camaro fetches far higher prices than any Boss or Shelby Mustang yet the 2012 Camaro ZR1 ain't going to be nothing about nothing when it comes to holding value and collectibility save for government (again) ruining the auto industry in the near future.

There were also only something like 60 of the original ZL-1s made, and they were all COPO. Between them, the Baldwin Motion, and Yenko cars, they carried such storied histories (and now carry such high prices) because it was more or less GM saying on the outside that it didn't put its big block engines into its little cars, yet it did for these cars. What's more, the ZL-1 engine (which also found its way into a handful of Corvettes) was an all-aluminum motor designed to be used only for NASCAR and other racing series. It was never meant to get on the road, but through the COPO loophole, it did.

GM hasn't done anything that batshit crazy since giving a few Grand Nationals to McLaren-ASC and the largely unknown SLP Firehawks that made some 400+ hp with a factory warranty when the Corvette was only making 330.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

GM hasn't done anything that batshit crazy since giving a few Grand Nationals to McLaren-ASC and the largely unknown SLP Firehawks that made some 400+ hp with a factory warranty when the Corvette was only making 330.

Have you forgotten about the Turbo Trans Ams back in '89? The Equally crazy Typhoon/Syclone of the early 90s? The C4 ZR1 was also a beast in it day.   

[the Teuton]

Have you forgotten about the Turbo Trans Ams back in '89? The Equally crazy Typhoon/Syclone of the early 90s? The C4 ZR1 was also a beast in it day.   

Yeah, but are any of those going to be worth high five-figures, if not six-figures, someday? No, they were production cars.

I might give you one for the Marlboro Syclone since they only made 7 of them and they were all t-tops. But they were all regular production cars for the most part even though they were all pretty limited production.

None of the COPO cars were that common.

[SVT666]

Yeah, but are any of those going to be worth high five-figures, if not six-figures, someday? No, they were production cars.

I might give you one for the Marlboro Syclone since they only made 7 of them and they were all t-tops. But they were all regular production cars for the most part even though they were all pretty limited production.

None of the COPO cars were that common.

The problem with those cars wasn't that they were "production cars", it's that they were pieces of shit.  The Syclone and Typhoon were based on the S-10 and Jimmy which were giant pieces of shit...even in their day when pieces of shit were pretty common.

[the Teuton]

The problem with those cars wasn't that they were "production cars", it's that they were pieces of shit.  The Syclone and Typhoon were based on the S-10 and Jimmy which were giant pieces of shit...even in their day when pieces of shit were pretty common.

Was the '69 Camaro really much better?

[Eye of the Tiger]

The problem with those cars wasn't that they were "production cars", it's that they were pieces of shit.  The Syclone and Typhoon were based on the S-10 and Jimmy which were giant pieces of shit...even in their day when pieces of shit were pretty common.

Syclone Sonoma!?

[SVT666]

Was the '69 Camaro really much better?

The '69 Camaro was considered a really good car.  The S-10 and Jimmy were considered shitty even when shitty was normal.  In other words, they were even shittier than the shitty cars of the day.

[GoCougs]

Was the '69 Camaro really much better?

More desirable? Infinitely more so. Better? Not a chance. Safety, handling, braking, quality, reliability? All pretty bad relative to a vehicle made in the early '90s.

The Syclone and Typhoon were better performance cars than anything Ford and Dodge were making save the Viper.

[GoCougs]

There were also only something like 60 of the original ZL-1s made, and they were all COPO. Between them, the Baldwin Motion, and Yenko cars, they carried such storied histories (and now carry such high prices) because it was more or less GM saying on the outside that it didn't put its big block engines into its little cars, yet it did for these cars. What's more, the ZL-1 engine (which also found its way into a handful of Corvettes) was an all-aluminum motor designed to be used only for NASCAR and other racing series. It was never meant to get on the road, but through the COPO loophole, it did.

GM hasn't done anything that batshit crazy since giving a few Grand Nationals to McLaren-ASC and the largely unknown SLP Firehawks that made some 400+ hp with a factory warranty when the Corvette was only making 330.

All true, but nonetheless, it's one of the most valuable cars of the era second to probably only the 'vert Hemi Cuda.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The Syclone and Typhoon were better performance cars than anything Ford and Dodge were making save the Viper.

I remember The Syclone being faster through the quarter mile than a Ferarri. So the Viper may have been toast too but don't quote me on it!

[ChrisV]

There was a time when a number of the classic muscle and pony cars that are coveted today weren't worth much at all.  They really didn't start gaining value until they were decades old and there were fewer and fewer of them in decent shape.

A point tat really bears repeating. I remember in the early '70s when even an original Ford GT40 could be had in race ready trim for about double what a then-new Torino GT cost.

[Byteme]

The '69 ZL-1 Camaro fetches far higher prices than any Boss or Shelby Mustang yet the 2012 Camaro ZR1 ain't going to be nothing about nothing when it comes to holding value and collectibility save for government (again) ruining the auto industry in the near future.

Considering the production runs it's kind of an apples to oranges comparison.    Kind of like saying a Tiffany lamp is worth more than a mass produced lamp that looks and performs about the same.  Meaningless comparison. 

[Byteme]

A point tat really bears repeating. I remember in the early '70s when even an original Ford GT40 could be had in race ready trim for about double what a then-new Torino GT cost.

How true.  Go get some Road and Track magazines from say 69-73 and check the Marketplace section at the back.    You'll cry and then wish for a time machine and a small bag of money. 

[GoCougs]

I remember The Syclone being faster through the quarter mile than a Ferarri. So the Viper may have been toast too but don't quote me on it!

Yeah, I can't see how people can complain given what else was being made in the early '90s. LOL, look at Ford at that time period.

[GoCougs]

Considering the production runs it's kind of an apples to oranges comparison.    Kind of like saying a Tiffany lamp is worth more than a mass produced lamp that looks and performs about the same.  Meaningless comparison. 

Not really; it was a car produced by Chevrolet. Depending on the Shelby, even some of them weren't actually made by Ford. But my point is that the 1969 ZL-1 Camaro is some mega expensive vehicle means zilch on how collectible the upcoming ZR1 Camaro will be in the distant future. Same with the Boss.

[FoMoJo]

The '69 ZL-1 Camaro fetches far higher prices than any Boss or Shelby Mustang yet the 2012 Camaro ZR1 ain't going to be nothing about nothing when it comes to holding value and collectibility save for government (again) ruining the auto industry in the near future.

2007 RM Auction, Scottsdale: Hemi 'Cuda convertible brings $2.2 MIL

Barrett-Jackson Lot: 1325 - 1969 FORD MUSTANG BOSS 429 FASTBACK $605,000.00

Barrett-Jackson Lot: 1277.1 - 1969 CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL-1 COPO COUPE $319,000.00

There are many other examples but I believe that these are some of the record prices for these vehicles at auction.  The Hemi Cuda is pretty astounding but with only 11 built it is super rare.  What can be said about the Camaros of that era is that they are the most popular among the restomod crowd.  Numbers matching Yenkos and COPOs restored to stock condition go for good prices but are blown away by Boss 429s and Hemi Cudas.

[GoCougs]

Nah, ZL1 Camaro has sold for $800k+ many many times and is otherwise second only to the Hemi 'Cuda and maybe the L-88 Corvette in value. Plus, another aspect to its value is that the ZL1 was a much better performing vehicle than most, including any Mustang or the Hemi 'Cuda. Plus I already mentioned that the Hemi 'Cuda was top Detriot value dog from the muscle/pony car era.

[SVT666]

Show proof Cougs.

[the Teuton]

Cougsy, I hate to say it, but you're wrong on that one.



I knew there was a reason I took pictures of these things.

[the Teuton]

BTW, I take RM's auctions with less grains of salt than B-J's. B-J is a lot more publicized and therefore people get into huge bidding wars because no one wants to be a loser on national TV.

Also, rumor has it they bid on their own cars at times, too.

[the Teuton]

Also, just so I can brag a little bit:

One:



Two.


And a Baldwin-Motion Camaro for good measure.




...just because I can. The ZL-1 show car and Baldwin-Motion are owned by the same guy. He also owns a Yenko Camaro, a Yenko Stinger Corvair, and I think one of the few ZL-1 Corvettes out there.

[Mustangfan2003]

They made a Yenko Corvair?  That would sure piss Ralph Nader off. 

[MX793]

They made a Yenko Corvair?  That would sure piss Ralph Nader off. 

Yes.  In fact, the Yenko Stinger (Corvair) was the first/original Yenko tuner car.

[GoCougs]

Cougsy, I hate to say it, but you're wrong on that one.

Nah...

1969 ZL-1 Camaro sold at $840,000 at a Mecum's auction.

The $319,000 price appears to be because that was equipped with (an undesirable) A/T.

[the Teuton]

For reference, this is basically the FXX of Yenko Stingers -- a stage 3. It's pretty badass.

[FoMoJo]

Nah...

1969 ZL-1 Camaro sold at $840,000 at a Mecum's auction.

The $319,000 price appears to be because that was equipped with (an undesirable) A/T.

Didn't know about that sale.  Only a handful (5 or 6) of them have their original engines.

I didn't know about this one either...1967 Shelby GT500 Convertible Sold for $825,000 - Only 1967 Shelby GT500 convertible ever built; custom ordered by Carroll Shelby as engineering test car

Performance wise, nothing to speak of, but super rare.  As for the Boss 429s, their value is on the rise; especially the first 50 '69s.

[SVT666]

2013 Shelby GT500 will be using a twin turbo 5.0L V8.