Small premium cars?

[sportyaccordy]

For someone who values free choice and letting the market decide what it wants, you sure are contradictory.

[Xer0]

I thought the old TSX was the perfect small, in that not too large sense, premium car.  It looked good inside and out, had a pretty good powertrain, was agile and fun to drive, had an upscale feel, and wasn't too expensive (IIRC, the started at ~27k).  The new TSX doesnt look as good, is larger and heavier, and isnt as fun to drive while also being more expensive.

[SVT32V]

I thought the old TSX was the perfect small, in that not too large sense, premium car.  It looked good inside and out, had a pretty good powertrain, was agile and fun to drive, had an upscale feel, and wasn't too expensive (IIRC, the started at ~27k).  The new TSX doesnt look as good, is larger and heavier, and isnt as fun to drive while also being more expensive.

I would think the integra was very successful as a small premium car, they seemed to be everywhere in the 90s.

[2o6]

The Saab 900 and 9-3 also enjoyed modest success.

[sportyaccordy]

What makes a car 'premium' in people's eyes?

I spent time in an EX-L Accord and same year TSX, and they have the same dash, engine etc. So why can't an equally equipped Civic be considered premium?

[ifcar]

What makes a car 'premium' in people's eyes?

I spent time in an EX-L Accord and same year TSX, and they have the same dash, engine etc. So why can't an equally equipped Civic be considered premium?

It could be, in theory. The current Civic just doesn't have the power, refinement, interior quality, or driving dynamics of anything but an economy car.

[AutobahnSHO]

C30 ??

[2o6]

It could be, in theory. The current Civic just doesn't have the power, refinement, interior quality, or driving dynamics of anything but an economy car.

[ifcar]

Are you trying to suggest that a Civic with an Acura badge is a legitimate premium compact?

[2o6]

Are you trying to suggest that a Civic with an Acura badge is a legitimate premium compact?

Canada seems to think so. 

[sportyaccordy]

Are you trying to suggest that a Civic with an Acura badge is a legitimate premium compact?

I would venture to say the Integra sedan was a legitimate premium compact in its hey day. It had the performance, luxury, refinement and driving dynamics of a much more expensive car. The GS-R was basically a Type-R with more sound damping.

[2o6]

I would venture to say the Integra sedan was a legitimate premium compact in its hey day.

So was the G20. And the Saab 900 was probably the best of them all.

[MX793]

I would venture to say the Integra sedan was a legitimate premium compact in its hey day. It had the performance, luxury, refinement and driving dynamics of a much more expensive car. The GS-R was basically a Type-R with more sound damping.

A friend of mine had a 1st gen Integra when I had my 240SX.  There was nothing about that car that was more premium than the 240.

[sportyaccordy]

A friend of mine had a 1st gen Integra when I had my 240SX.  There was nothing about that car that was more premium than the 240.

The 1st gen Integra is about 25 years old.

[MX793]

The 1st gen Integra is about 25 years old.

And this was about 10 years ago.  Might have been an early 2nd gen.  It was of roughly the same vintage as my S13.  Regardless, it didn't strike me as any more premium than any other sport compact of that vintage.

[Tave]

The base Integra wasn't; the GS-R was much nicer.

[cawimmer430]

Are you trying to suggest that a Civic with an Acura badge is a legitimate premium compact?

Lexus did it with the HS250h. 

[Galaxy]

In the relatively (though far from pure) capitalistic US auto market, virtually no one would chose to buy a "premium" small car over a mid-level midsizer, hence, why virtually none are offered here.

"Premium" small cars exist because governments' Draconian taxation and regulation make them so. You do not want that on US shores under any pretenses or for any apparently benefit.

What a silly argument.


For the german market:

The Audi A4 sedan 2.0 TFSI quattro, 6spd  costs ?  138/year in taxes.

The Audi A3 hatchback 2.0 TFSI quattro, 6 spd costs ?  148/year in taxes.

The A3 is an older design  and uses more fuel=CO2, so it pays more in taxes. Of course the A4 has a higher sticker price then the A3, so the buyer will pay more in sales tax, but it shoud not be a main deciding factor. Has it occured to you that in a country with  82 million people, slightly smaller the Montana a small car might be more livable on a daily basis, and yet at the same time one does not want to miss the features and material quality of a luxury car?


For the record here is the min/max taxation rate of the A3-A4 gasoline range.

A3 1.2 FSI ? 38/year, Audi S4 sedan ?270/year.


And since you are always harping about the diesels being a product of socialism:

Audi A4 2.0 TDI quattro = ? 248/year. The extremely popular Audi A6 Avant 3.0 V6 TDI quattro costs ? 403 per year in taxes. 

[Galaxy]

I should add that the A4 outsells the A3, the 3er outsells the 1er, and the C class outsells the A/B class.

[GoCougs]

That post makes me sad - that you get taxed on your cars in such a manner is flat-out depressing.

And proves my point. You'd have to be nuts to buy an A3.

[ifcar]

That post makes me sad - that you get taxed on your cars in such a manner is flat-out depressing.

And proves my point. You'd have to be nuts to buy an A3.

If you don't need a bigger car, you'd be nuts to pay extra for an A4.

[2o6]

That post makes me sad - that you get taxed on your cars in such a manner is flat-out depressing.

And proves my point. You'd have to be nuts to buy an A3.

MAYBE THEY WANT ONE, DUDE.

[Raza]

Not many of your CamCord buyers are going to opt for a gussied up Focus or Civic of the same approximate cost.

I agree, but that's mostly because of the poor reasoning behind the idea of size equaling value. 

[2o6]

I agree, but that's mostly because of the poor reasoning behind the idea of size equaling value. 

As well as the Premium compacts (although sharing bits) being totally different cars.

[Jon?]

I agree, but that's mostly because of the poor reasoning behind the idea of size equaling value. 

Depends what they're looking for.  Leather, Nav, etc. is easy to give up dollar for dollar if it means a useable rear seat and nicer ride.

[2o6]

Depends what they're looking for.  Leather, Nav, etc. is easy to give up dollar for dollar if it means a useable rear seat and nicer ride.

Define usable.



I don't think there's any car on sale that has a rear seat that two adults can't sit in to some degree of comfort.

[Raza]

If you don't need a bigger car, you'd be nuts to pay extra for an A4.

I'm sorry, personal preference and/or need doesn't come into play here. 

[Raza]

Also, all, please keep in mind that the BMW 3 series, for example, is a compact car.  It's the same size as my Jetta (actually, 1" shorter).

[GoCougs]

If you don't need a bigger car, you'd be nuts to pay extra for an A4.

In America, thankfully wants = needs.

[ifcar]

Define usable.



I don't think there's any car on sale that has a rear seat that two adults can't sit in to some degree of comfort.