C&D 535i vs M37 vs A6 3.0T

[MX793]

Not necessarily. A lot of smaller economy cars here might not be the fastest from 0-100 km/h, but their midrange acceleration is perfectly adequate for merging unto a highway here.

And - I'm not sure people in the US do this, but when you're merging unto a highway here, the people in the slow lane automatically make way by moving into the fast lane, if possible, to allow you to safely merge.

The only cars that perform better in rolling acceleration than in acceleration from a dead stop are those that are so powerful they have trouble finding traction at launch.  Otherwise, a car with a slow 0-60 is also going to be slow at 5-60, 30-60, 40-70, etc...

And from my experience, people in the right lane only move over maybe 50% of the time.  Worse, at least around here, there are many short merging lanes.  Some highways don't even have a proper merge lane, they just have an on-ramp with a yield sign at the end (if there's no opening in traffic when you get to the end of the ramp, you have to stop completely).

[cawimmer430]

The only cars that perform better in rolling acceleration than in acceleration from a dead stop are those that are so powerful they have trouble finding traction at launch.  Otherwise, a car with a slow 0-60 is also going to be slow at 5-60, 30-60, 40-70, etc...

Perhaps "subjectivity" is at work here again. What is considered good midrange acceleration here might be considered "slow and underpowered" in America. I've driven many slow cars here (VW Lupo 1.0, Renault Twingo, VW Golf TDI 100-hp, Mercedes C220 Diesel W202, Smart ForTwo CDI etc.) and I've never had a problem merging unto an Autobahn etc. with them. All it took was good timing.

And from my experience, people in the right lane only move over maybe 50% of the time.  Worse, at least around here, there are many short merging lanes.  Some highways don't even have a proper merge lane, they just have an on-ramp with a yield sign at the end (if there's no opening in traffic when you get to the end of the ramp, you have to stop completely).

I'm not sure if you've ever driven in Europe, but the vast majority of drivers move over and make way for you to enter the highway. I've experienced this behavior in Germany, in the UK, France, Spain, Belgium, Holland, Austria, Switzerland and even in Italy, a country not really known for its driving discipline. Not everyone will do this, but the vast majority of drivers will. It's taught in driving schools all over Western Europe (not sure about Eastern Europe but I assume it's also taught there).

From what I hear about the American driving education system, it wouldn't surprise me if something like this might not be taught. What do they teach you guys over there?

"Make sure your car can do 0-60 in 5 seconds, 13 second 1/4 mile bla bla so you can merge safely unto a highway..."

[Raza]

How fast is the US-spec GTI?

Like I said, some manufacturers offer different final drive / gear ratios for their US-spec models. Mercedes' in particular is known for doing this.

Well, two years in a row, Motor Trend got a DSG equipped GTI to hit 60 in 6 seconds flat.  Realistically, it's more mid sixes, 6.4-6.7.  Paying three or four times as much for a car with 2.5 times as many cylinders with more than twice the horsepower and twice the drive wheels and a sport badge, I'd expect it to be better than that.

[MX793]

Perhaps "subjectivity" is at work here again. What is considered good midrange acceleration here might be considered "slow and underpowered" in America. I've driven many slow cars here (VW Lupo 1.0, Renault Twingo, VW Golf TDI 100-hp, Mercedes C220 Diesel W202, Smart ForTwo CDI etc.) and I've never had a problem merging unto an Autobahn etc. with them. All it took was good timing.


I'm not sure if you've ever driven in Europe, but the vast majority of drivers move over and make way for you to enter the highway. I've experienced this behavior in Germany, in the UK, France, Spain, Belgium, Holland, Austria, Switzerland and even in Italy, a country not really known for its driving discipline. Not everyone will do this, but the vast majority of drivers will. It's taught in driving schools all over Western Europe (not sure about Eastern Europe but I assume it's also taught there).

From what I hear about the American driving education system, it wouldn't surprise me if something like this might not be taught. What do they teach you guys over there?

"Make sure your car can do 0-60 in 5 seconds, 13 second 1/4 mile bla bla so you can merge safely unto a highway..."

Americans are taught that they should move over if they can to allow traffic entering the highway room to merge, but many do not.  Sometimes it's because traffic doesn't allow for it.  Sometimes it's because their exit is coming up (exits on our limited access highways tend to be more closely spaced) and they don't want to get stuck in the left lane and be unable to exit the highway at the desired point.  Many times it's because they're just lazy/selfish and because moving isn't the law, they don't bother.

Another thing to consider is that the entrance/exit ramp design is different between German autobahns and American highways.  I'm looking at a map of the A24 and something I'm noticing is that 1)  your merge ramps tend to be at least 100 ft (two semi truck lengths) longer than many of the merge ramps on the highways in my part of the country and 2) your entrance and exit ramps do not share a lane.  The interchanges (or "cloverleafs") of many American highways are set up so that the deceleration lane for the exit ramp and the acceleration lane for the entrance ramp are connected.  Vehicles trying to exit the highway are forced to compete for space in the lane with vehicles trying to enter the highway.  This effectively shortens the merge lane even more since you really want to avoid staying in the lane to the very end since you'll risk being struck by traffic trying to get into that lane to exit.  There are certainly instances in American where entering traffic and exiting traffic have dedicated acceleration/deceleration lanes, but there are also many, many interchanges where that is not the case.

Imagine trying to merge into speeding traffic when the merge lane is only 200-300 ft long (vs 400-500 ft for an autobahn ramp) and you not only have to worry about merging with existing traffic, but also traffic already on the highway trying to squeeze into your merge lane because it's their exit lane as well?

[sportyaccordy]

Europeans would buy faster cars if the faster cars and gas weren't taxed so heavily. For example, right now in Germany I think a gallon of gas costs $8. If gas were $8 here, the American automotive landscape would look totally different... probably European.

Same for Japanese cars.

Let's not make it like ppl are content with buying a Polo 1.0. If not for the heavy gas + luxury taxes and crazy strict emission rules, cars like 600cc Polos wouldn't exist.

I don't think it's fair to say Americans are power crazy. An Accord/Camry 4 banger isn't exactly a rocket, and is a great compromise on many things for the average person. And that is representative of the average American car.

[Cookie Monster]

Americans are taught that they should move over if they can to allow traffic entering the highway room to merge, but many do not.  Sometimes it's because traffic doesn't allow for it.  Sometimes it's because their exit is coming up (exits on our limited access highways tend to be more closely spaced) and they don't want to get stuck in the left lane and be unable to exit the highway at the desired point.  Many times it's because they're just lazy/selfish and because moving isn't the law, they don't bother.

Another thing to consider is that the entrance/exit ramp design is different between German autobahns and American highways.  I'm looking at a map of the A24 and something I'm noticing is that 1)  your merge ramps tend to be at least 100 ft (two semi truck lengths) longer than many of the merge ramps on the highways in my part of the country and 2) your entrance and exit ramps do not share a lane.  The interchanges (or "cloverleafs") of many American highways are set up so that the deceleration lane for the exit ramp and the acceleration lane for the entrance ramp are connected.  Vehicles trying to exit the highway are forced to compete for space in the lane with vehicles trying to enter the highway.  This effectively shortens the merge lane even more since you really want to avoid staying in the lane to the very end since you'll risk being struck by traffic trying to get into that lane to exit.  There are certainly instances in American where entering traffic and exiting traffic have dedicated acceleration/deceleration lanes, but there are also many, many interchanges where that is not the case.

Imagine trying to merge into speeding traffic when the merge lane is only 200-300 ft long (vs 400-500 ft for an autobahn ramp) and you not only have to worry about merging with existing traffic, but also traffic already on the highway trying to squeeze into your merge lane because it's their exit lane as well?

Yeah, there are some terrible, terrible entry/exits here as well. One of them is where a 35mph road merges with the highway and the short entry ramp is also the exit ramp for the exit that's like 3 feet away. Not to mention there is a big dip in the "ramp". When there is a lot of traffic, I have to floor it right after the dip and merge on the highway at about 50 mph while people in the right lane either don't move over or floor it to move into the exit lane and then slam on their brakes to make the cloverleaf turn.

[sportyaccordy]

Link.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/10q2/2010_audi_a6_3.0t_quattro_vs._2011_bmw_535i_2011_infiniti_m37-comparison_tests

[rohan]

Very true.  Having owned both, I can attest to that.

My ONLY complaint about the steering on mine is it's slow at low speed.  Push it past 35 and that completely absolutely and completely goes away.

[cawimmer430]

Americans are taught that they should move over if they can to allow traffic entering the highway room to merge, but many do not.  Sometimes it's because traffic doesn't allow for it.  Sometimes it's because their exit is coming up (exits on our limited access highways tend to be more closely spaced) and they don't want to get stuck in the left lane and be unable to exit the highway at the desired point.  Many times it's because they're just lazy/selfish and because moving isn't the law, they don't bother.

Another thing to consider is that the entrance/exit ramp design is different between German autobahns and American highways.  I'm looking at a map of the A24 and something I'm noticing is that 1)  your merge ramps tend to be at least 100 ft (two semi truck lengths) longer than many of the merge ramps on the highways in my part of the country and 2) your entrance and exit ramps do not share a lane.  The interchanges (or "cloverleafs") of many American highways are set up so that the deceleration lane for the exit ramp and the acceleration lane for the entrance ramp are connected.  Vehicles trying to exit the highway are forced to compete for space in the lane with vehicles trying to enter the highway.  This effectively shortens the merge lane even more since you really want to avoid staying in the lane to the very end since you'll risk being struck by traffic trying to get into that lane to exit.  There are certainly instances in American where entering traffic and exiting traffic have dedicated acceleration/deceleration lanes, but there are also many, many interchanges where that is not the case.

Great insight. Thanks. 

In my experience, people with passenger cars here always tend to make way most of the time to allow you to merge. I can't remember if I've ever encountered anyone who didn't move over - except trucks. Trucks, which are limited to 80 km/h, do not move over to allow you to merge. When I'm driving the 500SL or E320, this ain't a problem as a simple kickdown will see me out-accelerate the truck with ease thus allowing me to enter and merge the Autobahn safely in front of him. This is also possible with the 118i, but it's not as fast as the Benzes in our family.

Any reason why your merging/acceleration lanes are so short?

Imagine trying to merge into speeding traffic when the merge lane is only 200-300 ft long (vs 400-500 ft for an autobahn ramp) and you not only have to worry about merging with existing traffic, but also traffic already on the highway trying to squeeze into your merge lane because it's their exit lane as well?

Yikes!

[cawimmer430]

My ONLY complaint about the steering on mine is it's slow at low speed.  Push it past 35 and that completely absolutely and completely goes away.

Do you have BMW Active Steering?

Mercedes offers their Parameterlenkung in their newest cars. This system ensures that at low speed the steering is less direct and more relaxed while at higher speeds you can feel the response of the steering wheel tighten and the response times shorten drastically. I've experienced it on a number of modern MB's and I find it quite useful if you're going to mix relaxed and sporty driving together.

[sportyaccordy]

Any reason why your merging/acceleration lanes are so short?

Piss poor planning really. Though I imagine the Autobahn having generally much higher speeds than an American interstate, warranting longer lanes. But yea it's almost standard fare to have to go from an 80 MPH (125 km/h?) highway to a curve that can be taken no faster than 30 MPH (50 km/h?) over the length of about 300-400 ft (100-130 m?).  Americans just get used to it.

[cawimmer430]

Piss poor planning really. Though I imagine the Autobahn having generally much higher speeds than an American interstate, warranting longer lanes. But yea it's almost standard fare to have to go from an 80 MPH (125 km/h?) highway to a curve that can be taken no faster than 30 MPH (50 km/h?) over the length of about 300-400 ft (100-130 m?).  Americans just get used to it.

Sounds like poor planning indeed. 

[Jon?]

Any reason why your merging/acceleration lanes are so short?

We are a tiny, impoverished nation.  Extending on-ramps would be at the expense of our precious arable land.

[cawimmer430]

We are a tiny, impoverished nation.  Extending on-ramps would be at the expense of our precious arable land.

I hear you! Longer on-ramps mean you guys have to import grain from the Soviet Union! 

[Tave]

I've been utterly disgusted with the piss-poor design of all these cloverleafs out here in the East. In the western US, we have a lot more dedicated on/off-ramps (as well as higher speed limits to boot), and it works much better.

Cloverleafs are an obsolete solution to traffic congestion. In theory, they should improve the flow of traffic by allowing criss-crossing highways to share a common right of way while capitalizing on spacial constraints. In practice, traffic volumes have risen considerably since they were installed, and they're no longer capable of handling the amount of cars on today's roads.

I don't think they're all bad--if they're big enough and the highway engineers design enough space between the entry and exit points, they can work pretty smoothly. Of course then you're taking up so much space that you might as well go with dedicated on/off-ramps.

[Cookie Monster]

Great insight. Thanks. 

In my experience, people with passenger cars here always tend to make way most of the time to allow you to merge. I can't remember if I've ever encountered anyone who didn't move over - except trucks. Trucks, which are limited to 80 km/h, do not move over to allow you to merge. When I'm driving the 500SL or E320, this ain't a problem as a simple kickdown will see me out-accelerate the truck with ease thus allowing me to enter and merge the Autobahn safely in front of him. This is also possible with the 118i, but it's not as fast as the Benzes in our family.

Any reason why your merging/acceleration lanes are so short?



Yikes!

Yeah, there are places where people go 70 mph in the right lane and you have no time to accelerate up to speed. Also, a lot of people are dumb and don't use the on ramp properly and accelerate as slowly as possible while merging so traffic gets backed up and you're forced to really floor it to jump into the next lane at times.

[the Teuton]

Do you have BMW Active Steering?

Mercedes offers their Parameterlenkung in their newest cars. This system ensures that at low speed the steering is less direct and more relaxed while at higher speeds you can feel the response of the steering wheel tighten and the response times shorten drastically. I've experienced it on a number of modern MB's and I find it quite useful if you're going to mix relaxed and sporty driving together.

I once drove a 128i with Active Steering. It was fucking terrible.

[rohan]

Do you have BMW Active Steering?

Mercedes offers their Parameterlenkung in their newest cars. This system ensures that at low speed the steering is less direct and more relaxed while at higher speeds you can feel the response of the steering wheel tighten and the response times shorten drastically. I've experienced it on a number of modern MB's and I find it quite useful if you're going to mix relaxed and sporty driving together.

Yes it does.  I don't like it very much at low speeds makes emergency steering almost impossible because the wheel is harder to move and the speed of the wheel turn is slower but at faster speeds its really nice and very crisp.

[cawimmer430]

Yes it does.  I don't like it very much at low speeds makes emergency steering almost impossible because the wheel is harder to move and the speed of the wheel turn is slower but at faster speeds its really nice and very crisp.

I've not heard good things about Active Steering. Even owners don't seem to like it. Damn. 

[the Teuton]

When I hit the gas in the middle of a corner, I had to correct my steering because the rack tightened on me out of nowhere. It was the most disconcerting feeling I've had while driving.

The gas pedal and the steering ratio should not be linked to one another.

[TBR]

I've been utterly disgusted with the piss-poor design of all these cloverleafs out here in the East. In the western US, we have a lot more dedicated on/off-ramps (as well as higher speed limits to boot), and it works much better.

Cloverleafs are an obsolete solution to traffic congestion. In theory, they should improve the flow of traffic by allowing criss-crossing highways to share a common right of way while capitalizing on spacial constraints. In practice, traffic volumes have risen considerably since they were installed, and they're no longer capable of handling the amount of cars on today's roads.

I don't think they're all bad--if they're big enough and the highway engineers design enough space between the entry and exit points, they can work pretty smoothly. Of course then you're taking up so much space that you might as well go with dedicated on/off-ramps.

I am with you on that. I hardly ever saw a clover leaf before I got to NC, and they're all over the place here. They definitely have their advantages, but the reality is that there is rarely enough room to implement them correctly.