$500 for a Battery!?!?

[850CSi]

So my car's at the stealership (you can see where this is going...) getting its wheel bearing swapped out (which apparently they're having one hell of a time with... Mechanic supposedly spent all afternoon yesterday getting the old one out... I hope they don't readjust their estimate...).

I has a question -



After a night out in the cold, my instrument cluster has been acting up. I could post a video but basically the gas gauge gets stuck at empty and vibrates quickly. The rest of the cluster fails to read anything (Odo/Speedo don't work). Back when I lived up north this used to happen only in the mornings where we got subzero temps but it's been happening at progressively warmer temperatures. We probably haven't had a night colder than 15-20 here and whenever it's cold enough for my windshield to frost it generally happens.

I dropped the car off and noted the issue to them. He called me back later that day. His claim was that a diagnostic check revealed that multiple systems on the car are reporting low voltage. He says that especially consistent with the need to change the battery is the fact that the issue has been happening at ever higher temperatures.

This makes some sense to me, as the battery is probably almost 6 years old at this point. But then again, my car hasn't had any real trouble starting.

Question 1: Is his theory plausible? At what point do the car's electronics start running off of the alternator alone? It'll usually take a couple of minutes, but after I get going the instrument cluster will suddenly come to life.


So then I ask him for an estimate expecting $200ish and he says "$504"

WTF? You're telling me it's going to cost you as much to replace my fkin battery as replacing a WHEEL BEARING!?

I mean fine, I get that labor is expensive and I'd be getting an OEM battery and whatever but seriously!? And it's not like my battery is that difficult to access, IIRC it's in a panel in the trunk's side lining that's easy to remove. He could tell I was shocked so he goes on and tells me how batteries from Autozone are useless and I'll end up having to buy an OEM battery anyways "because of all of the electronics in the car." Which sounds like utter bullshit.

Question 2: Would an OEM battery really have any discernible advantage over a Duralast or whatever? Aren't the car's electronics run off of the alternator anyways?


I'm going to call the indie shop that did my ceramic brake pads and see how much he wants. I also need the microfilter replaced anyways. I would change the battery myself but apparently the car's system has to be reset. I might just change it myself and ask the shop to reset it.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Buy a quality battery and put it in yourself. You'll save at least 300 bucks!

[MX793]

The car should start using the alternator for power as soon as it's running.

6 years is pretty old for a battery, especially if it spent a good chunk of its life in colder climates.  I like to change mine every 4 or so.  Low voltage can damage components (like starter motors).

Where does BMW stash the batteries in the newer 3ers?  That could be part of the reason why it's so expensive, the $500 may include installation and removal labor (with the battery probably costing ~$200).  I had an engineering professor who once went on a tirade about how BMW's engineers stupidly decided to put the battery in the X5 (which he owned at the time) under the floor of the cargo compartment and removing it require quite a bit of disassembly (there was some sort of luggage organizer or something that had to be removed) plus a special tool to remove the cover of the battery compartment so that the average person could not change their own battery.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The car should start using the alternator for power as soon as it's running.

6 years is pretty old for a battery, especially if it spent a good chunk of its life in colder climates.  I like to change mine every 4 or so.  Low voltage can damage components (like starter motors).

Where does BMW stash the batteries in the newer 3ers?  That could be part of the reason why it's so expensive, the $500 may include installation and removal labor (with the battery probably costing ~$200).  I had an engineering professor who once went on a tirade about how BMW's engineers stupidly decided to put the battery in the X5 (which he owned at the time) under the floor of the cargo compartment and removing it require quite a bit of disassembly (there was some sort of luggage organizer or something that had to be removed) plus a special tool to remove the cover of the battery compartment so that the average person could not change their own battery.

WOW!

[ifcar]

The standard auto-parts-store batteries often have pro-rated warranties, and I know Advance Auto Parts offers free installation. How temperamental can an entry-level BMW be?

[giant_mtb]

The only reason I'd ever get an OEM battery is if I had no other option (no domestic brand makes the battery I need, for instance).

[S204STi]

Definitely go the Indie route on this one.  Sounds like BMW price gouging, and I'm typically supportive of dealers.

[FoMoJo]

Can't you just have the battery checked to see if 'low voltage' really is an issue?

[Secret Chimp]

Seriously, if there was a voltage issue I'd think he'd be getting a little battery indicator lighting up on his gauges.

[Rupert]

Yeah, that's a completely ridiculous price. Assuming it is the battery, you can get an OEM level replacement for well under $150. Even if you had to replace the thing every two years instead of 4-6 years, you come out ahead.

But I'm not convinced that it is the battery.

[Laconian]

I bet $500 seems like a steal to many BMW owners that think highly of the monetary value of their time.

[MX793]

Seriously, if there was a voltage issue I'd think he'd be getting a little battery indicator lighting up on his gauges.

Once running, the alternator provides power and so long as that is functioning properly, you won't get a low voltage indicator.  The low voltage warning is generally an indicator of a faulty alternator.

[Mustangfan2003]

$500 is way too much for a battery, you can get an Optima around $150 to $200

[Secret Chimp]

Once running, the alternator provides power and so long as that is functioning properly, you won't get a low voltage indicator.  The low voltage warning is generally an indicator of a faulty alternator.

What I'm saying is if his gauges are acting funny due to a low voltage issue the battery light should be coming on. Even in today's cars I doubt it's triggered by much more than a set voltage threshold that the current in the car has to pass under for the light to come on.

[Rupert]

$500 is way too much for a battery, you can get an Optima around $150 to $200

Or $60-100 for a just-as-good regular battery.

[Mustangfan2003]

Well he might pay a little more than $100 for a batter for his car if it's in the trunk because they are vented, but not much more. 

[MX793]

What I'm saying is if his gauges are acting funny due to a low voltage issue the battery light should be coming on. Even in today's cars I doubt it's triggered by much more than a set voltage threshold that the current in the car has to pass under for the light to come on.

Depends on where the voltage sensor for the low voltage warning light is.  The gauges may be getting low voltage, but the sensor may not.

And I question if the gauge issue is really due to a weak battery.  If it's really just low voltage from a weak battery, they should function normally once the engine is running and alternator power is applied.  I have to wonder if it isn't some kind of cold-induced short circuit or broken connection in the gauges.

[JWC]

The "battery light" on cars is not really about the battery, but about the charging system.  It generally only comes on with an alternator problem.  The problem here sounds just like low battery voltage from a weak battery.

The charge at the dealership, and probably one where you're going to end up paying anyway, probably includes diagnostics and a charging system test.

What was the division of labor/battery?

[VTEC_Inside]

I don't buy the battery explanation. As others have noted, once the car is running it shouldn't matter unless the voltage regulator and/or alternator has gone to shit.

[JWC]

I don't buy the battery explanation. As others have noted, once the car is running it shouldn't matter unless the voltage regulator and/or alternator has gone to shit.

It still matters.  The battery is part of the charging system and a weak battery usually has sulfation, which leads to a short, which leads to erratic gauges and operation of other systems.  The battery is never completely out of the loop.

[VTEC_Inside]

It still matters.  The battery is part of the charging system and a weak battery usually has sulfation, which leads to a short, which leads to erratic gauges and operation of other systems.  The battery is never completely out of the loop.

Well, I suppose I shouldn't be so quick to completely dismiss it, but its a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to the dealer "diagnosis" especially when followed by that ridiculous quote to replace it.

[JWC]

Well, I suppose I shouldn't be so quick to completely dismiss it, but its a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to the dealer "diagnosis" especially when followed by that ridiculous quote to replace it.

Well, let's assume the battery is at least $250.00 at the dealer.  Diagnostic at the dealer, computer and charging system, is probably around $150.00.  That leaves $100 for install and some of these vehicles don't put batteries in the easiest places to access.

Sounds about right to me.  Now, the problem is doing the retest, that is usually included as part of the job, and finding the alternator is damaged from trying to keep a faulty battery charged...burning up the diodes.  Then it will get expensive.   

That happened on our Focus.  One failed due to the other's failure.  That was almost $700.00 for a Ford.  We had an extended warranty though with a $100 ded.

[Rupert]

When I think I need a new battery, I take it into the car store, give them $70 for a new one, and then spend the two minutes putting it in myself.

[Laconian]

When I think I need a new battery, I take it into the car store, give them $70 for a new one, and then spend the two minutes putting it in myself.

YEAH, BUT HOW MUCH IS YOUR TIME WORTH?! YOU'RE AN IMPORTANT GUY!

[Mustangfan2003]

YEAH, BUT HOW MUCH IS YOUR TIME WORTH?! YOU'RE AN IMPORTANT GUY!

screw getting a new battery, might as well buy a brand new car. 

[rohan]

$500 is way too much for a battery, you can get an Optima around $150 to $200

Get an Interstate- $120 and they'll olast as long as that Optima and cost $60-80bucks less.  We use the mega-tron in our patrol cars and they're completely worry free fro the entire time we own the patrol cars- we put them in when they get upfitted.

[CJ]

Get an Interstate- $120 and they'll olast as long as that Optima and cost $60-80bucks less.  We use the mega-tron in our patrol cars and they're completely worry free fro the entire time we own the patrol cars- we put them in when they get upfitted.

Our Accord uses an Interstate battery with the Honda label on it and we've gone through 3 in 4 years.  That's a problem.

[The Pirate]

Our Accord uses an Interstate battery with the Honda label on it and we've gone through 3 in 4 years.  That's a problem.

Very possible that it's something other than the battery.  I've a very hard time believing that you got 3 bad batteries.  Methinks something else in the car is malfunctioning and smoking the battery.

[CJ]

Very possible that it's something other than the battery.  I've a very hard time believing that you got 3 bad batteries.  Methinks something else in the car is malfunctioning and smoking the battery.

Pardon my lack of eloquence...but it's a stupid car and I hate it.  We've had this one for 2 years and all is well.  I have no clue why the first two sucked.  One tested bad, the other just died.

[rohan]

We have Interstate batteries in all 48 department vehicles including all our patrol cars- it's the only one we use because they go for so long and are so reliable.  We replace them at 5 years if the vehicle stays with us and I haven't seen a single one fail.  I'm pretty sure even our boats have their marine batteries and I'm pretty sure all our county road trucks have them to since they do our maint.  Your car is probably got something really wrong with it.