850CSi's E90 Thread (old Cooling Issues thread)

[Cookie Monster]

It's good to learn, but by the time you buy equipment, diagnostic software, etc., you're in the hole for a handsome amount. Even if you know what you're doing, if you have to bring the car back to the stealership after performing maintenance or repairs, it's a big hassle. If you want to avoid that and buy the software yourself, it's probably over a grand right there.

Not sure what exactly he'd need to buy, but most of the equipment you need are a good set of wrenches, torque wrench, and a jack and stands. You may also need some specialized tool for a particular job, but all that is a fixed cost anyways. Once he has the tools (which will still cost far less than the $2-3k he'd have to pay for the warranty), working on his car will only cost him his time and the parts he's replacing.

[TBR]

All very true. My parents bought me a very nice car in my senior year of HS (I also went a HS where there were a lot of 'free' BMWs and Benzes for kids) because I did well and got into a good college. I got the car shortly after I was accepted to my #1 choice school.

There were some kids who "earned" their pricey cars by absolutely killing themselves working three jobs. Most of them did relatively poorly in school. They got by, but not well, and because they didn't want to give up the money they got accustomed to making (or because they had a gigantic car payment) they wound up "taking a couple courses" here and there and never completed their college degrees. Most of them, at least from what I can glean off Facebook, would have done far better if they made some different choices. Truth be told, I'm not a very big proponent of kids having jobs during the school year. Their job is to be a student. Summer employment is one thing, but even then I'd rather see some type of an internship or something that would be educational rather than working on the boardwalk or at a jet-ski rental stand.

I always tend to think that I'll "return the favor" someday, if I ever have a child, by making sure that they'll have a cool car to drive to school in as well.  

Now that we're sufficiently diverted from the topic of the cooling system on the E90 3-Series, carry on...

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. Even excluding the money, my high school job was very valuable in helping me prepare for college, interviews, and, I'd imagine, professional life.

Interestingly enough, if I hadn't worked as hard and much as I did during high school, my parents almost certainly would not have supported me in going to my first choice college.

It's all about balance.

Personally, I don't think it's the best idea for parents to buy nice cars for their kids, but it is also downright stupid to take on significant car payments as a high school student.

[850CSi]

Not sure what exactly he'd need to buy, but most of the equipment you need are a good set of wrenches, torque wrench, and a jack and stands. You may also need some specialized tool for a particular job, but all that is a fixed cost anyways. Once he has the tools (which will still cost far less than the $2-3k he'd have to pay for the warranty), working on his car will only cost him his time and the parts he's replacing.

I think I'm going to try to figure out exactly what that warranty would cover and go from there. When I said water pumps were "maintenance" I meant it in the sense that they are expected to fail at some point and do so fairly uniformly. I know that I'll have to change it - it's just a matter of "when"

My hood isn't closing right now - latch on the driver's side isn't clicking. Some WD-40 should hopefully take care of it.

[sportyaccordy]

Not sure what exactly he'd need to buy, but most of the equipment you need are a good set of wrenches, torque wrench, and a jack and stands. You may also need some specialized tool for a particular job, but all that is a fixed cost anyways. Once he has the tools (which will still cost far less than the $2-3k he'd have to pay for the warranty), working on his car will only cost him his time and the parts he's replacing.

Yea but then he runs the risk of damaging something else. Plus he might value his time more than his money, which is legit.

The only people who should get into doing their own work on cars are the people who enjoy it & have a mechanical knack... not the people who are just trying to save some $$$. I could do my own maintenance on my bike, and I will prob do my own oil changes and all that... but for example, with changing my forks, to me it made more sense to just take it to an expert and let them deal with it than to try to do it on my own and possibly kill myself or destroy the bike. Plus even if he can physically replace parts, he doesn't have the experience to make a quick diagnostic, which could end up in him spending money needlessly. Bottom line at this point in the game it's prob just best for him to eat the costs and let a shop take care of it, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.

[Cookie Monster]

Yea but then he runs the risk of damaging something else. Plus he might value his time more than his money, which is legit.

The only people who should get into doing their own work on cars are the people who enjoy it & have a mechanical knack... not the people who are just trying to save some $$$. I could do my own maintenance on my bike, and I will prob do my own oil changes and all that... but for example, with changing my forks, to me it made more sense to just take it to an expert and let them deal with it than to try to do it on my own and possibly kill myself or destroy the bike. Plus even if he can physically replace parts, he doesn't have the experience to make a quick diagnostic, which could end up in him spending money needlessly. Bottom line at this point in the game it's prob just best for him to eat the costs and let a shop take care of it, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.

Yeah, if he doesn't enjoy it or values his time more than the money needed to fix the car, then definitely get it fixed by someone else.

I was just telling him what I'd do. And I like working on cars and have all the time in the world.

[AutobahnSHO]

The only people who should get into doing their own work on cars are the people who enjoy it & have a mechanical knack... not the people who are just trying to save some $$$.

Disagree- I started working on my car to save $$$ and the more you work on them, the more you understand and can fix in the future. I should stay away from anything dealing with timing belts and seals, but accessories or axles are fairly easy. I even changed the clutch on a FWD sideways mounted-engine SHO. (PITA!!!)

[Byteme]

It's good to learn, but by the time you buy equipment, diagnostic software, etc., you're in the hole for a handsome amount. Even if you know what you're doing, if you have to bring the car back to the stealership after performing maintenance or repairs, it's a big hassle. If you want to avoid that and buy the software yourself, it's probably over a grand right there.

There's a lot of general maintenance you can do without expensive specialized equipment and diagnostic devices.

Exhaust
Wheel bearings
shocks and struts
brakes
cooling system
oil and other fluid changes
battery replacement
alternator replacement
belts
hoses
etc.

I started out with some hand-me-down wrenches, an $8 3/8" Craftsman socket set (which I still have), a pair of pliers and some screwdrivers.  Everything fit in an old plastic tackle box.  I acquired other tools, and larger tool storage, as I needed them.  

I'll tackle anything except the innards of a transmission or differential or complex electronics.  

[shp4man]

You guys would have a fun time with some of the shit I have to do. Let's just say they make cars easy to build, and screw the poor bastard that has to fix them.

[850CSi]

Well, the water pump is gone. I have a barely functional car sitting in the parking garage.

I was on the way to DC. After about 40 miles of driving, I pulled off to pick up some food from a drive thru. As I was hit the on-ramp I felt my engine go into limp mode, saw the dash temperature warning light up, and started smelling coolant. Pulled over, and sure enough it was leaking coolant and the reservoir had overflowed. Managed to turn it back on and back it up the ramp and into a parking lot. Had it towed home. Something weird happened during this sequence - as I backed up the ramp I accidentally disengaged and hit 3rd gear (stupid instinct to shift), though I realized what I was doing and never let go of the clutch. I ended up stopping and the car turned off. Can't remember how, my guess is I let go of the clutch and it stalled. It then lit up indicating some type of electric failure and wouldn't start. Tried again, and it had trouble starting but started. But then it was perfectly fine... Managed to drive it into the lot, and when it was towed home, I managed to drive it into the garage. Totally normal at that point other than the clutch stinking like hell but that was probably because the tow truck driver had to drive it up a hill and I'm pretty sure he didn't really know what he was doing. Anyways...

Option 1: Take it to an indie
Option 2: Buy repair manuals, scan tool, other tools, ramps, and fix it myself.

Either way, it's likely to cost me at least around $800ish. If I can get a shop to do it for under $850, I'll probably just do that. Water pumps are a maintenance item on these cars so it was bound to happen at some point, though from what I'm finding, 70k is on the low end. It's at 72k. I want to keep this car, though my dad wants me to get rid of it and buy something new.

[Rupert]

Water pump is pretty close to the deep end of the pool in terms of difficulty. I'd say indie, but I also think, just from my own German car experience, that $800 is kind of low.

[850CSi]

Water pump is pretty close to the deep end of the pool in terms of difficulty. I'd say indie, but I also think, just from my own German car experience, that $800 is kind of low.

From what I'm reading on E90 post, it's actually not that bad. I have no doubt I could do it if I got my hands on the service manual. I'm just not sure it's worth the trouble/time/potential pitfalls.

I remember telling an indie that was somewhat expensive in my experience that they typically did it for $1000. The parts are under $600 and I've heard that an experienced mechanic can typically swap the pump in about an hour, though they typically charge 2-3 hours for it. I dunno, I'm going to look around and see what I find.

[MexicoCityM3]

Good luck with the repairs, as you say, the water pump was bound to fail. It has been that way with the BMW inline 6 for a while, the E46 is the same and I think the E36 too. There are aftermarket water pumps that are better than the BMM OEM one that last a lifetime as well. But I guess you won't keep the E90 more than another 70k miles, but if that is not the case maybe the investment in a better pump may be worth it.

[Rupert]

Well, I got the impression that you don't have any experience wrenching. If so, I would start a little more slowly. Like, with an oil change.

[850CSi]

Well, I got the impression that you don't have any experience wrenching. If so, I would start a little more slowly. Like, with an oil change.

Yeah, ideally that's what I'd do. But I guess I gotta start somewhere, and like I said it doesn't seem to be that bad.

Good luck with the repairs, as you say, the water pump was bound to fail. It has been that way with the BMW inline 6 for a while, the E46 is the same and I think the E36 too. There are aftermarket water pumps that are better than the BMM OEM one that last a lifetime as well. But I guess you won't keep the E90 more than another 70k miles, but if that is not the case maybe the investment in a better pump may be worth it.

Yeah, except they were relatively cheap because they were belt-driven! 2006 was apparently a particularly bad year for the electric water pump in the E90s. And apparently there are no aftermarket ones.

[Rupert]

Good luck, then!

[GoCougs]

Definitely take it to a shop. Imagine the the issues and pitfalls that you might expect, and times it by 100.

I wouldn't do an indie shop - if there's a problem a BMW dealership is far more apt to correct the issue. They should also provide a service loaner/rental. Sure you'll pay way more but it'll be worth it IMO.

[Rupert]

Right. Fixing shit is never as easy and pleasant as undo a few bolts, install a few bolts. Shit gets stuck, it's hard to reach, a tool falls into the depths of the engine bay, some fluid gets spilled all over you and the floor, you can't figure out how to lift the car, instructions are shitty, something won't adjust right....

[Eye of the Tiger]

Right. Fixing shit is never as easy and pleasant as undo a few bolts, install a few bolts. Shit gets stuck, it's hard to reach, a tool falls into the depths of the engine bay, some fluid gets spilled all over you and the floor, you can't figure out how to lift the car, instructions are shitty, something won't adjust right....

You can level up your skills and do it yourself, or you can blow 800 gold and pay someone else to do it.

[Rupert]

Yeah, if it was me, I might level up and do it myself, but I have years of experience doing a lot of mechanical stuff, however minor on average. If 10 takes professional experience, the pump is 5, and I'm 4, then 850 is 1.

[Eye of the Tiger]

As a bonus, you also get +3 Intellect

[Rupert]

Nah, intellect is +1. Perseverance and patience are +1, combined. General mechanical understanding is +2. But if we're giving bonus points, then the water pump gets +3, because it's his first mechanical job.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Nah, intellect is +1. Perseverance and patience are +1, combined. General mechanical understanding is +2. But if we're giving bonus points, then the water pump gets +3, because it's his first mechanical job.

Aquiring a good tool set could yield +10 Agility.

[MexicoCityM3]

Water pump as a first job = not recommended IMHO. Do oil & brakes first.

[Rupert]

Aquiring a good tool set could yield +10 Agility.

+9; tiny hands on long arms is another +1.

[Cookie Monster]

Trying to do a water pump as the first mechanical job is like trying to learn how to ride a liter superbike without knowing how to ride a bicycle.

Start smaller.

Hell, I've worked on lots of cars and have taken auto shop, and do all my own oil changes and whatnot, and swapping my suspension was a somewhat irritating experience. Things always seem to take far longer than you expect, stuff gets mixed up or lost, parts don't fit like you expect or take forever to figure out how to install, etc. The worst thing you can do is disassemble everything, get stuck, and then have a totally undrivable (hell, unmovable) car that you can't even take to a mechanic.

I also dropped by on a friend changing his water pump + timing belt on his Passat. That was not a pretty sight. I don't know if I'd attempt that now, myself.

[mzziaz]

Methinks it will vary wildly how hard it is to change the water pump depending on how the engine is designed. An electrical pump might actually make it a lot easier as opposed to, say, my car where the water pump is driven by the timing belt.

[850CSi]

Hmm I guess I accidentally locked this topic at some point?


Called a local place with decent reviews, said he'll do it for $700ish w/o the t-stat (so $800ish with the t-stat). I'm probably just going to take it there. Place is 4 miles away, question is whether I can just drive the car there. I don't think I'm going to try, though.

[2o6]

Hmm I guess I accidentally locked this topic at some point?


Called a local place with decent reviews, said he'll do it for $700ish w/o the t-stat (so $800ish with the t-stat). I'm probably just going to take it there. Place is 4 miles away, question is whether I can just drive the car there. I don't think I'm going to try, though.

Don't drive it.

[850CSi]

Just dropped it off. No problems whatsoever, though the fan was running after I turned the car off for a while. Got it there quick enough/kept my RPM low enough that I didnt get a warning.


As for the shop... wow. Let's just say I've never seen so many 928s. ever.

[Rupert]

That's a good sign.

The place where I take the 944 is full of old Rollers and Jags. Last time I was there, he had a Ferrari 355 in. Makes ya feel like a boss.