850CSi's E90 Thread (old Cooling Issues thread)

[850CSi]

Heh, I figured. He showed me an '87 on a lift with the engine bay open/parts everywhere and said he was almost done rebuilding the engine. Looked brand new.

He more or less talked me through some stuff about my car that clearly demonstrated he's worked on a lot of these things before (explained to me why BMW went with the electric pump) and seemed generally like a real upstanding guy. He also had a B7 S4 wagon and M3 inside, along with an E31 5er, E38, and 996 outside.

First shop I called (which I've had decent experience with in the past) quoted me like 5 hrs labor, this guy said "I can get the pump swapped in just under an hour, but I also have to flush the system, bleed air, reset codes, etc. so I charge 2 hrs labor for it." This was generally consistent with what I've read on the E90 forums as to what an experienced indie should be able to do, so I went right for it. Plus he's close. I have a rental until Friday, so I told him to take his time with it, but it'd be nice to get it back soon.


Water pump is really one of the few major well-known issues with NA E90s, so I'm hoping this is my last repair in a while. VANOS will apparently fail at some point, but there don't seem to be any horrendous like $3k repairs that are typically required of these cars. I'm still tossing around the idea of a $2k fun car (and I still really want an E36), but at this point I'm thinking of just buying something like an auto ~2004ish Protege or Civic.

[TurboDan]

Water pump is pretty close to the deep end of the pool in terms of difficulty. I'd say indie, but I also think, just from my own German car experience, that $800 is kind of low.

Really? My Passat's timing belt was done for closer to $700, and that includes a new water pump, right?

[TurboDan]

That's a good sign.

The place where I take the 944 is full of old Rollers and Jags. Last time I was there, he had a Ferrari 355 in. Makes ya feel like a boss.

Got a garage like that in my area where my family has taken all our European cars. The parking lot outside is like an auto show with all the rare/cool cars people bring to him.

Owned by a guy from Germany named Guenther. How could ya go wrong? 

[Rupert]

Really? My Passat's timing belt was done for closer to $700, and that includes a new water pump, right?

Your Passat was a People's Car.

I had a timing belt done on my old Ranger for, like, $250. Same was something like $1200 for the 944.

[850CSi]

Fixed. She's running like a charm.


He was talking to me about oils, and apparently the BMW branded one is crappy. He recommended another brand, can't remember what it was. Said it was French and that I'd be just fine running 6-10k or even 15k intervals on that.

[TurboDan]

Fixed. She's running like a charm.


He was talking to me about oils, and apparently the BMW branded one is crappy. He recommended another brand, can't remember what it was. Said it was French and that I'd be just fine running 6-10k or even 15k intervals on that.

Doesn't BMW recommend Castrol? I know the one I test drove recently had a Castrol logo somewhere with a "BMW recommends using Castrol oils," or something like that.

Anywho, this might be the French company he was talking about. It's popular with VW/Audi peeps. I've never used it, personally.

http://www.motul.com/us/en-us

[TurboDan]

Your Passat was a People's Car.

I had a timing belt done on my old Ranger for, like, $250. Same was something like $1200 for the 944.

Ouch, $1200, huh? Apparently it was more of a People's Car than I thought! I shudder to think what the LR2's eventual timing belt replacement will cost. Somebody said around $1100, though the car didn't come out 'til '08 so few people have that many miles on 'em yet.

[Rupert]

Yeah, repairs and parts for that thing hurt. If you buy Porsche brake pads, it's $320 for a full set. High-end aftermarket pads were $169. I just keep telling myself that I don't drive it that much, so it's OK.

And 850, IMO, it's fine to play around with which oil you use, but I wouldn't go much past the recommended oil change interval. Oil is pretty cheap (unless you're buying really "special"-- read, expensive-- oil, in which case you're wasting your money). Roy knows lots about it; ask him before you change your routine.

[850CSi]

^I've switched to ceramic pads all around. I love them. No dust, and no disadvantages I can discern. But I assume my car is not as picky as a Porsche.


BMW recommends Castrol (and the BMW-branded stuff is rebadged Castrol), but I specifically asked him about VANOS failure and he mentioned the negative side effects he's seen from Castrol oil.

TBF, BMW has no incentive to recommend the best oil on these cars - they're providing it when the car is serviced when average oil won't hurt and not beyond that. Makes sense to go cheap.

I don't remember the name being Motul. I remember it beginning with a 'P' but it just totally skipped my mind and I can't find anything. He recommended using 5W-40. I normally don't follow what mechanics tell me just because, but this guy really seemed to know his stuff about these cars.

BTW, he had a silver E36 M3 in for service today. It looked pristine. Apparently it's had a single owner.  




I've never really had a set 'routine'. I used to go at 15K intervals (which is what is recommended) when the car was under warranty. At some point last year I went 17k between changes, but then got changed like 5-6K after that. It's been 6Kish since then. He mentioned the oil being around $10/qt but being worth it.

[850CSi]

I'm worried about lifter ticking, which would apparently become a huge job if it ever creates a real problem, but whether or not that happens is up for debate... Shop didn't seem very concerned about it.

[850CSi]

Ok, I remembered the name. It was German, not French. He recommended Pentosin.

[TurboDan]

Ok, I remembered the name. It was German, not French. He recommended Pentosin.

Pentosin is good (albeit expensive) stuff. I have a can of their synthetic power steering fluid in my garage. The Passat liked to drink it near the end...

[850CSi]

Pentosin is good (albeit expensive) stuff. I have a can of their synthetic power steering fluid in my garage. The Passat liked to drink it near the end...

Seems to be about $10/liter from the local O'Reilly Auto, which is really only about $2-3 more than the BMW/Castrol stuff. Might be worth it.

[850CSi]

Latest dealership lulz...

There's some sort of extended warranty-type thing on the passenger side seat mat in my car. The mat is basically a weight detector and shuts the airbag off when no one's in the seat. It's known to malfunction in these cars.

I got an appointment to drop my car off at the stealership and get it taken care of. Service advisor tells me there's a $145 "diagnostic" fee in case it turns out to be something in the seat other than the mat. I complain, he looks at me and goes "I'm not about to ask my guys to work for free." I asked for my key back and went on my way.

I can buy a fucking scanner for $150 to read the error codes. Better yet, I can probably go to autozone and get the reading done for free if they're OBD codes (but I'm almost sure they aren't). $145 to get someone to connect a fucking scan tool to the car and extract the error codes - a process that will take 2 minutes? This was the same sleaze of a service advisor that tried convincing me I needed an OEM BMW battery to power my car's electronics and that $500 to get it done was a good deal.  (recall: I ended up getting an AGM battery installed for half of that)


I'm going to take my car to my indie to get the oil changed and the CDV removed sometime within the next couple of weeks. Going to ask him to just see what error codes there are so I can make sure the stealership is going to be forced to fix it for free. Then I'll take it right back.

No hurry on the mat - the warranty is for a decade and unlimited mileage, and it seems like in the meantime the car has chosen to keep the airbag permanently on.

[850CSi]

I mentioned it in passing in the previous post. CDV removal: yay or nay?

http://www.zeckhausen.com/cdv.htm

I'm super tempted, but I'm worried because I've gotten so used to the damn thing. But I think it'll make the car a lot more fun. While I'm there, I'm going to ask him how much it'd cost to stiffen up my suspension with some new parts. I've regretted not getting the sport suspension on my car since day 1. I'm leaving town for a month this summer and I'm considering putting together a list of things I want done to the car and just leaving it there.

I'm guessing a slight lowering and some stiffening can be done for <$500. I'm just not sure how much work it requires. It doesn't look too bad from the DIY's I've seen. A [used] OEM one can be had for <$250 but I don't want to do that.

[CJ]

Take your car to another dealer. If there'a an extended warranty on the part, they get paid regardless.

[TurboDan]

Latest dealership lulz...

There's some sort of extended warranty-type thing on the passenger side seat mat in my car. The mat is basically a weight detector and shuts the airbag off when no one's in the seat. It's known to malfunction in these cars.

I got an appointment to drop my car off at the stealership and get it taken care of. Service advisor tells me there's a $145 "diagnostic" fee in case it turns out to be something in the seat other than the mat. I complain, he looks at me and goes "I'm not about to ask my guys to work for free." I asked for my key back and went on my way.

I can buy a fucking scanner for $150 to read the error codes. Better yet, I can probably go to autozone and get the reading done for free if they're OBD codes (but I'm almost sure they aren't). $145 to get someone to connect a fucking scan tool to the car and extract the error codes - a process that will take 2 minutes? This was the same sleaze of a service advisor that tried convincing me I needed an OEM BMW battery to power my car's electronics and that $500 to get it done was a good deal.  (recall: I ended up getting an AGM battery installed for half of that)


I'm going to take my car to my indie to get the oil changed and the CDV removed sometime within the next couple of weeks. Going to ask him to just see what error codes there are so I can make sure the stealership is going to be forced to fix it for free. Then I'll take it right back.

No hurry on the mat - the warranty is for a decade and unlimited mileage, and it seems like in the meantime the car has chosen to keep the airbag permanently on.

Couple points on this:

1) Don't mess with anything having to do with airbags. My old Passat's airbag sensor went haywire (under warranty) and caused the car to literally come to complete stop on the highway. Get this part fixed. Period. But go to a different dealer. Better yet, call BMWUSA and have THEM schedule the appointment. My neighbor (during the summer) is a marketing person for BMWUSA and they take care of their customers big-time when they call the corporate bosses. Take advantage of this. But seriously, don't mess around with airbag sensors!

2) Indies are almost ALWAYS more honest. It helps that my local German/European car mechanic knows that I'm a member of the press, but not really. Guenther, an automotive genius who learned from Guenther Sr. (an equally automotive genius) has no impetus to upsell you or screw you over. He wants to fix your car and he wants to fix you car the next time it breaks. He fixed my dad's old VWs and Audis from the 70s to the 80s to the 90s to the 2000s and he's fixed ALL of my cars since I was 17 years old. Timing belt in the Passat was done for $600 as compared to $1000 at the stealership. Dealers just want to make money. I have a buddy who is employed at an MB dealership... I've heard ALL the stories. Stick with the indy, big time!

[TurboDan]

Take your car to another dealer. If there'a an extended warranty on the part, they get paid regardless.

Seriously. Any dealership that would try to "warn" you about extra to be paid on a WARRANTY or RECALL item is a scumbag operation. Period. Honestly, I'd call BMWUSA and report those type of antics.

[JWC]

Seriously. Any dealership that would try to "warn" you about extra to be paid on a WARRANTY or RECALL item is a scumbag operation. Period. Honestly, I'd call BMWUSA and report those type of antics.

If it is a warranty issue, not extended warranty, but a service bulletin that allows the dealer to repair it, the independent will not have access to BMW's payment plan and a dealer would have to do it.

Any dealer or garage that doesn't warn you of possible charges is a scum bag.  Consultants and parts/service directors "suggest" you don't say anything on the theory that a majority of customers will not pull a car when they get the phone call that something not covered is wrong....and most people will not.  

If there is a warning lamp on and another sensor is the failure, not the seat pad sensor, he will get the call that further diagnosis is required...at his expense.  I've been through it too many times with independents.  They begin working on airbag systems and find out that a scan tool will not diagnose the problem correctly. All they can get is a code, while the dealership can pinpoint resistance to a single airbag and/or sensor and determine if it is within OEM range.  You guys would be amazed at how many independent customer's cars end up at the dealership anyway with the garage paying the dealership for a diagnosis, then hide the repair cost in their bill to the customer...with some elaborate story about a short in the wiring...and it took like five hours to fix, but they will only charge you half that giving you a big discount.  And people believe that crap.

I've had to hide cars for independent garages while they are being worked on by the dealership because they fear customers may happen by and see the dealership working on their car.

[GoCougs]

Word. I would never go to an independent shop.

[850CSi]

If it is a warranty issue, not extended warranty, but a service bulletin that allows the dealer to repair it, the independent will not have access to BMW's payment plan and a dealer would have to do it. ...

Only going to get it diagnosed by my indie. I don't trust the dealership because quite frankly there is nothing stopping him from repairing it under warranty and telling me it was something else and charging me for it. Again, this is the same prick that blatantly lied to me about the car's need for a "big powerful BMW battery!!!" $150 to plug a fucking scan tool into a car for 30 seconds and read the codes is absurd when I could do it myself for that much. I should not have to gamble with the dealership to access an extended warranty.

Word. I would never go to an independent shop.

notsureifsrs.jpg

[850CSi]

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/defect/relatedDefectsSummary.cfm?RCL_ID=08V384000&defectIdlist=EA08001&ModuleType=Vehiclestype=VEHICLE

http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Recalls/2008/V/RCDNN-08V384-5007.pdf

[JWC]

BMW must be behind the times.  At Ford we used laptops that activated sensors and tested them.  In the last two or three years I worked at Ford, no one used a "scan tool".

I spend the extra for a Ford battery for my cars, even the VW.  The warranty is good anywhere in the U.S. and Canada...and they tow for free.

[Eye of the Tiger]

BMW must be behind the times.  At Ford we used laptops that activated sensors and tested them.  In the last two or three years I worked at Ford, no one used a "scan tool".

I spend the extra for a Ford battery for my cars, even the VW.  The warranty is good anywhere in the U.S. and Canada...and they tow for free.

I've used the Ford laptops. You can basically take over every function that is electronically controlled. Also, I think the software and laptop configuration is much easier to use than a scan tool with a bunch of clunky buttons and impossible menus. It just needs an oscilloscope and various other attachments to make it complete.

[JWC]

I've used the Ford laptops. You can basically take over every function that is electronically controlled. Also, I think the software and laptop configuration is much easier to use than a scan tool with a bunch of clunky buttons and impossible menus. It just needs an oscilloscope and various other attachments to make it complete.

It will allow you to run the engine and observe cylinder functions and misfires.

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/retail/default.asp?pageid=wds_retail&gutsid=wds&kevin=rules 

[Eye of the Tiger]

It will allow you to run the engine and observe cylinder functions and misfires.

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/retail/default.asp?pageid=wds_retail&gutsid=wds&kevin=rules 

Ah, cool. My poor community college only had the VCM's. Old, used, donated stuff.

[850CSi]

BMW must be behind the times.  At Ford we used laptops that activated sensors and tested them.  In the last two or three years I worked at Ford, no one used a "scan tool".

I spend the extra for a Ford battery for my cars, even the VW.  The warranty is good anywhere in the U.S. and Canada...and they tow for free.

I'm assuming they just hook it up to a computer and read the error codes to diagnose the problem. It might even be shooting off OBD codes but those aren't always reliable. If It was an OBD thing I could go to Autozone and get it done for free - that's how I found out it was the coil on cylinder no.3 when my engine was misfiring. They can only scan the OBD stuff but the code had enough information in it to specify that cylinder.

I would be shocked if there is anything the dealer can do as far as scanning/clearing codes that my indie can't.

[JWC]

It depends on how much he wants or can invest. 

The "Ford specialist" down the street from my old dealership used to come down and pay us to run diagnostics on some vehicles when his tools couldn't get a definite diagnosis or his guys had replaced enough parts that didn't fix it that they gave up.  We gave him a "vendor" price so he could make a little something on it. 

It has been that way at every dealer I've worked for.

[hotrodalex]

BMW must be behind the times.  At Ford we used laptops that activated sensors and tested them.  In the last two or three years I worked at Ford, no one used a "scan tool".

I spend the extra for a Ford battery for my cars, even the VW.  The warranty is good anywhere in the U.S. and Canada...and they tow for free.

BMW is able to hook up laptops as well, or at least a lot of owners have done so. Just need the right cable.

[SVT_Power]

1) Don't mess with anything having to do with airbags. My old Passat's airbag sensor went haywire (under warranty) and caused the car to literally come to complete stop on the highway. Get this part fixed. Period. But go to a different dealer. Better yet, call BMWUSA and have THEM schedule the appointment. My neighbor (during the summer) is a marketing person for BMWUSA and they take care of their customers big-time when they call the corporate bosses. Take advantage of this. But seriously, don't mess around with airbag sensors!

I was getting dicked around by the Kia dealership's service department for a warranty radio replacement, and after a couple of months of BS I got fed up and just called the Kia customer service line or whatever. They took my info and situation, told me they'd call the dealership and sort it out. Not even half an hour later, the dealership manager called and told me they're gonna bring the part in that week and that I can schedule to come in whenever I want.

After getting the warranty work done, I haven't been back to that dealership since. I have no clue why the service department was dicking me around, but a call from Kia Canada seemed to sort things out real fast.