Interesting counterpoint on the ATS

[LonghornTX]

Yes: You two got GoCougs'd.

Finis.

This was what I was supposed to be afraid of?

[sportyaccordy]

This was what I was supposed to be afraid of?

Will you stop goading him please

[LonghornTX]

Will you stop goading him please

Sorry, it is just too easy sometimes. Mea culpa mea culpa

[Rupert]

Cougs only wins by remaining calm and deflecting attacks, valid or not. Massive trolling, and pretty hilarious. You guys lose by playing into his hands.

[ergodic]

Wow... Cougs failed just because he's Cougs. You two failed for actually letting him do it. Again.

Anyway - ATS. I'm kinda agreeing with Sporty. It's probably going to be a good car, worthy competitor to the 3-er. But it lacks that little something, which would catapult it into this crowded segment IMO. If GM keeps doing it year after year, it'd probably get to H&H level of BMW/MB/Audi... That's a viable strategy too, except GM is not exactly known for such perseverance.

I know, it's supposed to be a volume seller, 3-er beater for Caddy. But to me it looks like an optional v8 (not V-series), would make a nice feature for the buyers to take notice. Especially since LSx engines are supposed to be light and fuel efficient enough. Give it turbo-4 as an entry level engine, ditch v6, and go directly to v8 for higher trims.

[GoCougs]

Ha, ha. You guys didn't stand a chance. Jesus, you should know that by now; inherently weak if not indefensible position (Mustang Apologism/Camaro Haterism) or not.

[GoCougs]

The LSx engine is not a luxury car engine; has no business under the hood of the ATS (and won't be). The 323 hp 3.6L V6 will be motor o' plenty if it's done right.

[ergodic]

The LSx engine is not a luxury car engine; has no business under the hood of the ATS (and won't be). The 323 hp 3.6L V6 will be motor o' plenty if it's done right.

Love you.

[68_427]

The LSx engine is not a luxury car engine; has no business under the hood of the ATS (and won't be). The 323 hp 3.6L V6 will be motor o' plenty if it's done right.

According to Cadillac the 3.6 ATS weighs 3434lbs, using the 318hp that was officially announced at Detroit or something.  Too bad it's automatic only.

But there's a tune out there that brings the 2.0T in the Regal GS to almost 350hp, so I'm sure that's an option for those who want an ATS with a manual.

[SVT666]

Cougs only wins by remaining calm and deflecting attacks, valid or not. Massive trolling, and pretty hilarious. You guys lose by playing into his hands.

Cougs lost his cool when he started attacking my car.  All I did was use his flawed logic against him.

[Rupert]

If you respond seriously, the troll wins.

[Raza]

I win.  I didn't participate. 

[sportyaccordy]

The LSx engine is not a luxury car engine; has no business under the hood of the ATS (and won't be). The 323 hp 3.6L V6 will be motor o' plenty if it's done right.

An old caveman OHV V8 does fine under the hood of the 300C

People who want a 3 series will buy a 3 series. ATS has to be something completely different to succeed

[GoCougs]

Cougs lost his cool when he started attacking my car.  All I did was use his flawed logic against him.

Take Rupert for example; like you he also used to cut on my old Accord, and then of course I had no choice but to remind him said was a better performer car than his Porsche. He understood, acquiesced, and am proud to say he got on with improved Internetry. You did not unfortunately and then had the lulz audacity to also cut on my G37 when your Mustangism went poorly as usual. I hold the same hope for you, though you're obviously a much harder case than Rupert.

[GoCougs]

An old caveman OHV V8 does fine under the hood of the 300C

People who want a 3 series will buy a 3 series. ATS has to be something completely different to succeed

Cadillac is a step above Cadillac though. I agree the ATS does have to be different to succeed, but not that different - 400+ pooprod hp in car that size is interesting but not a market need.

[CJ]

The 300C has a V8 because it's a big American car and is several classes above the ATS. It's a LARGE car. A V8 makes sense in it.

[sportyaccordy]

They dont need 400 HP. They can lower the displacement.

And I am not even saying it needs a V8. But completely aping the 3 series seems like a bad idea. It needs to separate itself more.

[CJ]

Nobody really NEEDS 400 HP, especially when there's a perfectly good V6 option.  Since that car is all about excess, it's perfectly fine. A 300C is MOT a canyon carver. It's a luxurious (sort of) vehicle that happens to have a large V8 and RWD, as well as some sportier rode and handling characteristics.

[sportyaccordy]

Why does the ATS have to be a canyon carver? There are already a million canyon carvers. Most people in the luxury market don't care about canyon carving. Or at least way more care about style. ATS isn't ugly but its def not very stylish or original.

[Raza]

Most people in the luxury market don't care about canyon carving.

If that were true, the 3 series wouldn't be the best seller in the class.

[sportyaccordy]

If that were true, the 3 series wouldn't be the best seller in the class.

Its the oldest + most recognizable nameplate in the segment. If that were false most 3 series would have the sports package etc (they dont). 3 series is the cheapest way to associate yourself with the roundel. Thats what matters to most folks who buy them.

[CJ]

Why does the ATS have to be a canyon carver? There are already a million canyon carvers. Most people in the luxury market don't care about canyon carving. Or at least way more care about style. ATS isn't ugly but its def not very stylish or original.

Because its much smaller than a CTS and that's what they need to really compete with ze Germans.

[GoCougs]

If that were true, the 3 series wouldn't be the best seller in the class.

Most (new) 3er buyers couldn't care less about "canyon carving." Though the 3er likely has more enthusiast buyers than other marques, it's very small; the others? They're buying a badge.

[GoCougs]

They dont need 400 HP. They can lower the displacement.

And I am not even saying it needs a V8. But completely aping the 3 series seems like a bad idea. It needs to separate itself more.

Why lower displacement? The LSx would remain the same size and weight.

The CTS had a combo that worked well; more on the luxury side than the performance side.

[850CSi]

Its the oldest + most recognizable nameplate in the segment. If that were false most 3 series would have the sports package etc (they dont). 3 series is the cheapest way to associate yourself with the roundel. Thats what matters to most folks who buy them.

Most (new) 3er buyers couldn't care less about "canyon carving." Though the 3er likely has more enthusiast buyers than other marques, it's very small; the others? They're buying a badge.

Yes, and yes.

[68_427]

Sporty must not realize there's going to be multiple suspensions and packages available for the ATS.  If someone doesn't want a canyon carver, they can skip the sport suspension, if someone wants a canyon carver, they can have the sport suspension + LSD.

[850CSi]

Sporty must not realize there's going to be multiple suspensions and packages available for the ATS.  If someone doesn't want a canyon carver, they can skip the sport suspension, if someone wants a canyon carver, they can have the sport suspension + LSD.

Jack of all trades = master of none

[68_427]

 It's still going to have the same good chassis dynamics no matter how you spec it.

And MRC is about as close as you can get to perfect suspension right now.

[Raza]

Its the oldest + most recognizable nameplate in the segment. If that were false most 3 series would have the sports package etc (they dont). 3 series is the cheapest way to associate yourself with the roundel. Thats what matters to most folks who buy them.

The BMW name is still not on the same plane as the Mercedes name, yet the 3 series trounces the C. 

[LonghornTX]

Ha, ha. You guys didn't stand a chance. Jesus, you should know that by now; inherently weak if not indefensible position (Mustang Apologism/Camaro Haterism) or not.

I now know to just regard you as the village idiot and take your chest beating (see posts two pages back) as you just trying to drum up some self-esteem