Raptor vs. Ram Runner: the battle is over

[hounddog]

Raptor loses.

End of story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ink77nR3ElU

Ram Runner: bigger, faster, stronger, clearly superior off road prowess.




Raptor: bending frames all over America.








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ink77nR3ElU

[MX793]

I'd be curious as to what people are hitting to cause the the frame to hump upward like that.  Hunching downward (swayback), I can understand.

[CJ]

Remind me again, which one of these can I buy on a dealer lot?  The Ford or the Dodge?  That's a win in my book. 

[S204STi]

The Dodge does seem to handle the big hits much better.  Both impressive trucks; I do dig the Dodge.

[SVT666]

I'd be curious as to what people are hitting to cause the the frame to hump upward like that.  Hunching downward (swayback), I can understand.

To me it looks like guys thinking their truck is invincible and landing from a jump high centered.

[SVT666]

The Ram Runner is $15K more and is an aftermarket Mopar kit that voids your warranty.  The Raptor is from the factory with a full warranty.  Raptor wins.

Fun Fact:  Tanner Foust loved the Raptor so much after taping his Top Gear segment with the truck that he went out and bought one.

[Catman]

The Ram Runner is $15K more and is an aftermarket Mopar kit that voids your warranty.  The Raptor is from the factory with a full warranty.  Raptor wins.

Fun Fact:  Tanner Foust loved the Raptor so much after taping his Top Gear segment with the truck that he went out and bought one.

Good points. 

[hounddog]

The Ram Runner is $15K more and is an aftermarket Mopar kit that voids your warranty.  The Raptor is from the factory with a full warranty.  Raptor wins.

$14k, and ONLY if you buy the fully loaded high package Dodge at full price.  

FYI, damage off-road to the Raptor is not being covered under warranty: i.e. bent frames.  

http://www.manualowl.com/am/Ford/2012-F150/Manual/3984?page=35

[SVT666]

$15K is wrong actually.  It's much more.  The kit alone is $20,000.  Then you have to have it installed.  That includes, full suspension (c/w ball joints, tie rods, control arms), front bumper, Rear tire carrier, front fenders, rear fenders, hood, and cat-back exhaust.  There is easily $10,000-$12,000 in labor to install all of that since there is actually body work that needs to be done including painting.  This is on top of the cost of the truck (which if you are comparing equal equipment) is pretty close in price to an F-150 FX4.  The Raptor is just $3500 more than the FX4.

[S204STi]

Bent frames from racing offroad should void the warranty.  Same way that if I grenaded my transmission on a track I'd have to pay for it too.

[hounddog]

$15K is wrong actually.  It's much more.  The kit alone is $20,000.  Then you have to have it installed.  That includes, full suspension (c/w ball joints, tie rods, control arms), front bumper, Rear tire carrier, front fenders, rear fenders, hood, and cat-back exhaust.  There is easily $10,000-$12,000 in labor to install all of that since there is actually body work that needs to be done including painting.  This is on top of the cost of the truck (which if you are comparing equal equipment) is pretty close in price to an F-150 FX4.  The Raptor is just $3500 more than the FX4.

No.

Ram Runner Suspension Kit, PN P5155662, $13,270, full kit with all goodies is $20k (Front Ram Runner bumper, PN P5155663, $1,250: Tubular tire carrier, PN P5155664, $1,010:   Front Ram Runner fenders, PN P5155665, $1,020:  Rear Ram Runner fenders, PN P5155666, $1,350:  Sport performance hood,
PN 82211065AD, $978:  Cold-air intake system, PN 77070023, $466:  Cat-back exhaust system, PN P5155280, $1,135)

Installed with a buddy: $13,270.  
Price of truck: $25,000
Total cost excluding taxes: $38,270.

Even if you use full costs of kit and install:  $30,000
Price of truck: $25,000
Total cost excluding taxes: $55,000

[SVT666]

No.

Ram Runner Suspension Kit, PN P5155662, $13,270, full kit with all goodies is $20k.

Installed with a buddy: $13,270. 
Price of truck: $25,000
Total cost excluding taxes: $38,270.

Even if you use full costs of kit and install:  $30,000
Price of truck: $25,000
Total cost excluding taxes: $55,000

Installing a complete suspension system in a truck is not something most people can do with their buddy.  In fact, very few people could do it.

Tires and wheels are not insignificant costs either.  Those costs have been left out as well.

Now, you're not comparing apples to apples if you just buy a basic Ram 4x4.  I priced out a Ram Sport Quad Cab 4x4 with as many of the options I could remember that the Raptor has as standard equipment and I got a total MSRP of $44,580  Tack your $30,000 onto that and you have a $75,000 truck with no warranty. 

[Atomic]

The Dodge does seem to handle the big hits much better.  Both impressive trucks; I do dig the Dodge.

No comment from me or I will again be tagged a Chrysler employee



Chrysler CEO would be even nicer, BTW...

[Cookie Monster]

That Ram Runner is bad as.

[hotrodalex]

The Raptors bend their frames when they go over jumps that are too large or if they go too fast (50+ mph). They're meant to do that, because bending a frame back into shape is better than replacing every suspension component. It also allows you to keep driving with the damage, unlike a busted suspension.

[GoCougs]

No surprise really - one is a not much more than a factory fanboy rig and the other ("winner") is a purpose-built aftermarket rig. No one who drives like this will do it in the former if but for nothing else (apropos to bent frames) than damage would/should not be covered by warranty or insurance (if the driver were honest how it happened).

The Ram Runner should cost a lot more - it's a more capable, purpose-built low-volume vehicle with a far more capable (costly) suspension with enhancements and upgrades not found on the Ford (cut fenders F&R, fancy bumper/skidplate, hood w/scoops, stainless dual exhaust w/cut outs, aftermarket CAI, tire carrier).

[CJ]

I'd bet that most Raptors aren't driven anywhere near a dirt road.  There's millions of them on OU campus, all driven by frat douches that have only read, and that's being generous, about dirt roads. 

[GoCougs]

The Raptors bend their frames when they go over jumps that are too large or if they go too fast (50+ mph). They're meant to do that, because bending a frame back into shape is better than replacing every suspension component. It also allows you to keep driving with the damage, unlike a busted suspension.

Nah; bending frames wasn't meant to be a mechanical fuse - the driver simply far exceeded the truck's designed capability and essentially broke it.

When you yield (permanently bend/deform) high strength steel like that found in many frames you've ruined its strength properties; good luck finding a reputable body/chassis shop what would rebend a frame that damaged. The only proper repair is a frame replacement.

[hotrodalex]

Nah; bending frames wasn't meant to be a mechanical fuse - the driver simply far exceeded the truck's designed capability and essentially broke it.

When you yield (permanently bend/deform) high strength steel like that found in many frames you've ruined its strength properties; good luck finding a reputable body/chassis shop what would rebend a frame that damaged. The only proper repair is a frame replacement.

I just echoed what Ford engineers said when asked about it.

[hounddog]

Installing a complete suspension system in a truck is not something most people can do with their buddy.  In fact, very few people could do it.

Tires and wheels are not insignificant costs either.  Those costs have been left out as well.

Now, you're not comparing apples to apples if you just buy a basic Ram 4x4.  I priced out a Ram Sport Quad Cab 4x4 with as many of the options I could remember that the Raptor has as standard equipment and I got a total MSRP of $44,580  Tack your $30,000 onto that and you have a $75,000 truck with no warranty.  

Anybody with any knowledge of mechanics can do it, granted this is a more advanced project I award you that.
But we are not talking rocket science here.  

Also, so pretend you do not want to spend $44,000 on a truck for this (which would not be the case since it is remarkably easy to negotiate $8k-$12k off a new Ram right now and they start at $22k):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4X4-Crew-Cab-CD-A-C-ABS-Adjustable-Steering-Wheel-AM-FM-Stereo-Bucket-Seats-/370618397413?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item564a93f2e5

Ram Runner will work on all fourth generation Rams.   Another reason this wins: you can simply add it to your existing, paid off, out of warranty '09, '10, '11, '12, and soon, '13 Ram.  

[hounddog]

Also, SVT, were you not the guy who stated something to the effect that no other truck could do what the Raptor does because it is "designed" to run Baha-like conditions?  Then claimed it was biggest, fastest, most powerful, best economy, most capable, etc.?  Then provided Ford derived links as proof?

Lets see, we proved it was not the biggest.  We proved it was not the fastest.  We proved it did not have the best economy (no, I doubt you actually said that, but I needed another argument to smack you with for the fun of it). 

Looks like now we have proven it does not have the most capability.  

[hounddog]

The Raptors bend their frames when they go over jumps that are too large or if they go too fast (50+ mph). They're meant to do that, because bending a frame back into shape is better than replacing every suspension component. It also allows you to keep driving with the damage, unlike a busted suspension.

No, not even close.

Broken suspension: unbolt, remove, put new component in, rebolt.

Bent frame: remove body, replace frame.

[hotrodalex]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/21/svt-boss-goes-on-record-about-ford-raptor-frame-damage-claims-w/

[giant_mtb]

That Ram Runner is bad as.

...bad as...?  Please, do go on! 

[SVT666]

No surprise really - one is a not much more than a factory fanboy rig and the other ("winner") is a purpose-built aftermarket rig. No one who drives like this will do it in the former if but for nothing else (apropos to bent frames) than damage would/should not be covered by warranty or insurance (if the driver were honest how it happened).

The Ram Runner should cost a lot more - it's a more capable, purpose-built low-volume vehicle with a far more capable (costly) suspension with enhancements and upgrades not found on the Ford (cut fenders F&R, fancy bumper/skidplate, hood w/scoops, stainless dual exhaust w/cut outs, aftermarket CAI, tire carrier).

A factory fanboy rig?  You're an idiot.

[giant_mtb]

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/21/svt-boss-goes-on-record-about-ford-raptor-frame-damage-claims-w/

That video's awesome.  I can't imagine driving that trail at those speeds.  Badass.

[SVT666]

Anybody with any knowledge of mechanics can do it, granted this is a more advanced project I award you that.
But we are not talking rocket science here.  

No, it's not rocket science, but it's not something you and I could do in my garage with a few wrenches.  It is complex stuff, especially when dealing with components that big and heavy and with that kind of compression (springs).  Personally, I don't want to running 50 mph offroad in a truck with a specialty suspension I bolted in their myself.

Also, so pretend you do not want to spend $44,000 on a truck for this (which would not be the case since it is remarkably easy to negotiate $8k-$12k off a new Ram right now and they start at $22k):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4X4-Crew-Cab-CD-A-C-ABS-Adjustable-Steering-Wheel-AM-FM-Stereo-Bucket-Seats-/370618397413?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item564a93f2e5

Ram Runner will work on all fourth generation Rams.   Another reason this wins: you can simply add it to your existing, paid off, out of warranty '09, '10, '11, '12, and soon, '13 Ram.  

No, that is absolutely very cool.  It's awesome in fact.  But comparing apples to apples the Raptor is the better deal.  If you want to take an '09 with 150,000 miles on the clock and turn it into a Ram Runner, then there is nothing else that compares.

[SVT666]

That video's awesome.  I can't imagine driving that trail at those speeds.  Badass.

According to guys on that trip they were travelling at 110+ mph at times and at the point of impact it was 80 mph.  Far exceeding anything Ford says is safe for that truck.

[giant_mtb]

According to guys on that trip they were travelling at 110+ mph at times and at the point of impact it was 80 mph.  Far exceeding anything Ford says is safe for that truck.

Yeah, that's insane.  The DNR (Department of Natural Resources) post here has at least one Raptor.  I know for a fact the agents have some fun with it because otherwise they're driving a bone-stock Silverado.

[SVT666]

Also, SVT, were you not the guy who stated something to the effect that no other truck could do what the Raptor does because it is "designed" to run Baha-like conditions?  Then claimed it was biggest, fastest, most powerful, best economy, most capable, etc.?  Then provided Ford derived links as proof?

Lets see, we proved it was not the biggest.  We proved it was not the fastest.  We proved it did not have the best economy (no, I doubt you actually said that, but I needed another argument to smack you with for the fun of it). 

Looks like now we have proven it does not have the most capability.  

If I remember correctly you were the one that claimed the Toyota Tacoma TRD could do what the Raptor does.

Now to address your comments:
1. It is the only factory built truck that can do what the Raptor does.  Period.

2. Never said it was the biggest.  

3. It is the fastest factory built truck off pavement.  Period.

4. It is the most powerful factory built V8 gas powered pickup truck.  Period.

5. Never said it had the best economy.

6. It is the most capable factory built pickup truck in off road conditions.  Period.



You have proven nothing except that if one wants to, they can spend a lot more money than it costs to buy a Raptor to buy a kit to turn their Ram into Raptor killer.  When Ram starts selling the Runner on dealer lots with a warranty, then my current statements will no longer be factual.  But at this time, they are.