New BMW Consumer Research indicates that...

[NomisR]

No.

Front wheels are for turning and stopping, rear wheels are for pushing the cars.  It makes perfect sense.  When a car accelerates, weight shifts to the back so you want more traction in the back, hence you want RWD.  And yadda yadda..

Either way, the only reason we have rear wheels on FWD cars is so the back of the cars wouldn't be dragging on the ground, and you have the front wheels overloaded with too much of the functions of the car.

[2o6]

Front wheels are for turning and stopping, rear wheels are for pushing the cars.  It makes perfect sense.  When a car accelerates, weight shifts to the back so you want more traction in the back, hence you want RWD.  And yadda yadda..

Either way, the only reason we have rear wheels on FWD cars is so the back of the cars wouldn't be dragging on the ground, and you have the front wheels overloaded with too much of the functions of the car.

Fun to drive is fun to drive. Who cares what wheels are doing what work.

[Laconian]

Front wheels are for driving like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PvBZIFa-aQ#t=12s

Driving with no rear wheels is a really popular activity in Europe. BMW doesn't want to miss out!

[TurboDan]

Sure, the 1er is fun to drive in its own way and the RWD layout is part of that, but when I drive other cars I also find them fun to drive in their own way. I guess I am one of those guys that derives driving pleasure from FWD, AWD and RWD. 

In the end, which wheels are powered by the engine isn't really such a big deal to me. In a compact daily driver FWD would be more beneficial though.

Most people who want practical daily drivers don't buy BMWs. They buy mainstreamers.

I'm not anti-FWD by any means, for the record. I loved my FWD Saab and it handled just about as well as any BMW. But even I'll admit you DO lose "something" intangible when you switch to FWD from RWD. It just "feels different." Unfortunately, for BMW, I think customers might notice that and ask themselves why they're paying a BMW premium for handling and feel that will no longer be particularly superior to other cars in the segment.

[Raza]

Fun to drive is fun to drive. Who cares what wheels are doing what work.

This is the most sensible thing you've ever said here. 

[Raza]

Most people who want practical daily drivers don't buy BMWs. They buy mainstreamers.

I'm not anti-FWD by any means, for the record. I loved my FWD Saab and it handled just about as well as any BMW. But even I'll admit you DO lose "something" intangible when you switch to FWD from RWD. It just "feels different." Unfortunately, for BMW, I think customers might notice that and ask themselves why they're paying a BMW premium for handling and feel that will no longer be particularly superior to other cars in the segment.

I've had 5 cars.

Three RWD, two FWD.

The worst handling car of them all was RWD.  It was also the least fun to drive by far.  It was leagues behind the 4th ranking car.

[sportyaccordy]

I believe an FWD car can feel like an RWD car in everyday situations. IMO the way a BMW feels in everyday driving doesn't have to do with the drivetrain, but more of how the suspension and steering feel.

Part of the steering feel is due to the lack of interference from FWD components (position of steering rack/tie rods for example), and due to the greater freedome in geometry (no axles, narrower engine = longer struts, longer LCAs = better geometry)

Point is though, just cause folks don't know FWD or RWD doesn't mean they can't feel the difference, and if the new 1 doesn't maintain that "BMW feel" (I dont think it will) it will bomb

[Raza]

Part of the steering feel is due to the lack of interference from FWD components (position of steering rack/tie rods for example), and due to the greater freedome in geometry (no axles, narrower engine = longer struts, longer LCAs = better geometry)

Point is though, just cause folks don't know FWD or RWD doesn't mean they can't feel the difference, and if the new 1 doesn't maintain that "BMW feel" (I dont think it will) it will bomb

The badge can make up for it.  It might bomb though.

[TurboDan]

The badge can make up for it.  It might bomb though.

1ers are overpriced as is in the US market. If they don't have the "BMW feel" to help people justify getting ripped off by buying one, they're gonna bomb.

[hotrodalex]

Once upon a time, Honda did it. 

I was riding it my friend's old Accord last night and couldn't help but wish my dad kept his Integra. Early-mid 90s Hondas were awesome.

[850CSi]

No.

Yes.

[cawimmer430]

Front wheels are for driving like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PvBZIFa-aQ#t=12s

Driving with no rear wheels is a really popular activity in Europe. BMW doesn't want to miss out!

As much of a POS the Citation might have been, it looked pretty cool. The design still looks kind of neat.

[cawimmer430]

Most people who want practical daily drivers don't buy BMWs. They buy mainstreamers.

The 1er and most BMWs (sans the SUVs) are practical cars in their own ways. In the case of the 1-Series, it's compact size makes it ideal to a crowded European city environment. To me it's a very practical car. I can park almost everywhere with it, I can squeeze through tight situations (and there are many in Munich) because the car isn't that wide etc.

What's impractical about it is that rear passengers have very little leg space due to the huge and wide driveshaft tunnel running through to power the rear wheels. The driveshaft takes up a lot of interior space, adds weight and also affects fuel economy. The good driving characteristics aren't going to interest most buyers. Also, the 1er is nice to drive in the dry but when it rains or when the winter comes the back is very twitchy and easily slides out, even if I am driving in a relaxed manner. I don't like that.

I can understand the switch to FWD for these cars. FWD will make future compact BMW more competitive with other cars in their classes. Competitiveness is the word in todays world. Some aspects have to be changed in order for a car to become more competitive in its class and in this case it's the addition of FWD.

I'm not anti-FWD by any means, for the record. I loved my FWD Saab and it handled just about as well as any BMW. But even I'll admit you DO lose "something" intangible when you switch to FWD from RWD. It just "feels different." Unfortunately, for BMW, I think customers might notice that and ask themselves why they're paying a BMW premium for handling and feel that will no longer be particularly superior to other cars in the segment.

The switch to FWD in a luxury car isn't such a big deal in Europe with the masses. We've had many large FWD premium/luxury cars in the past (Citroen DS, Citroen SM, Peugeot 605, Renault Safrane, various Lancias and Audis etc.) - not a big deal to most people. Nobody buys these cars for spirited performance driving. And if anyone can make cars drive well - FWD, RWD or AWD, it's BMW with their superb feel for suspension and steering feedback tuning etc.

BMW is probably doing what Mercedes is doing: FWD for the small cars. The only FWD Mercedes' ever have been the A-Classes, the B-Classes, the Vaneo and the first-generation V-Class. Currently MB only offers two FWD cars: the A- and B-Class. Everything else is RWD (with optional AWD) and BMW is doing the same thing for their small cars where it makes sense in terms of improving overall practicality.

[dazzleman]

I'd venture a lot more of BMWs costumers care about "how it drives" but have no idea that it drives that way because of RWD. Asking the masses if they care about RWD shows nothing other than the - usual - ignorance of most people.

[Raza]

Yes.

I've had 5 cars.

Three RWD, two FWD.

The worst handling car of them all was RWD.  It was also the least fun to drive by far.  It was leagues behind the 4th ranking car.

[TurboDan]

The 1er and most BMWs (sans the SUVs) are practical cars in their own ways. In the case of the 1-Series, it's compact size makes it ideal to a crowded European city environment. To me it's a very practical car. I can park almost everywhere with it, I can squeeze through tight situations (and there are many in Munich) because the car isn't that wide etc.

But I was talking about the North American market. We don't live in crowded cities with tiny streets. We (especially those who can afford luxury cars) live in sprawling suburban-style areas. For most Americans, the small car would be seen as the impractical car you buy as a fun ride rather than your daily driver. I'm not saying people don't use small cars as daily drivers here (they do!) but a car like a 1er is often something somebody would have as a second car.

I think the 3er and X3/X5 are considered to be far more "practical" cars here.

What's impractical about it is that rear passengers have very little leg space due to the huge and wide driveshaft tunnel running through to power the rear wheels. The driveshaft takes up a lot of interior space, adds weight and also affects fuel economy. The good driving characteristics aren't going to interest most buyers. Also, the 1er is nice to drive in the dry but when it rains or when the winter comes the back is very twitchy and easily slides out, even if I am driving in a relaxed manner. I don't like that.

Rear passenger leg space isn't something that a lot of people really care about, in my opinion. I probably have rear seat passengers 2-3 times a year, personally. The space they get wouldn't even be a consideration when buying a car, at least for me. Again, this is a market-oriented type of thing. Americans don't like "car pooling." And for a small, sporty car many people would use as a cool car to tool around in for fun, the good "driving characteristics" mean a lot. Again, people might not be able to verbalize the intricacies of what, exactly, makes the car "fun to drive," but they know what such a car should feel like. My contention is that these intangibles count for something, especially when you now have smaller cars that offer equal or better driving characteristics for a lower price, such as the BRZ/FR-S, for example.

It's a matter of people asking themselves why they're spending more money to drive an FWD 1er than an RWD BRZ, which comes with more features anyway. If someone doesn't care about badge snobbery, BMW is making this model far less attractive.

I can understand the switch to FWD for these cars. FWD will make future compact BMW more competitive with other cars in their classes. Competitiveness is the word in todays world. Some aspects have to be changed in order for a car to become more competitive in its class and in this case it's the addition of FWD.

I don't see this as them making the cars more competitive. I see them watering down this model in a race to the lowest common denominator of the class, and taking away a potentially unique aspect of the model range.

BMW is probably doing what Mercedes is doing: FWD for the small cars. The only FWD Mercedes' ever have been the A-Classes, the B-Classes, the Vaneo and the first-generation V-Class. Currently MB only offers two FWD cars: the A- and B-Class. Everything else is RWD (with optional AWD) and BMW is doing the same thing for their small cars where it makes sense in terms of improving overall practicality.

But again, a car like the 1er is not thought of as a "practical" car in some markets. If they've made the decision to target this car at the European market first and foremost and this is the way they think they can sell more of them, fine. But it will cost them sales in other markets such as North America. I wish the company would level with us about their reasoning for this decision, but they never will.

[850CSi]

Come the fuck on man, I was trolling him.

[Raza]

Come the fuck on man, I was trolling him.

Oh, sorry. 

[850CSi]

Oh, sorry. 

(In all seriousness, I prefer RWD and can't really see myself buying anything FWD, but I've definitely driven FWD cars worth driving)

[Raza]

(In all seriousness, I prefer RWD and can't really see myself buying anything FWD, but I've definitely driven FWD cars worth driving)

I couldn't see myself having a garage full of cars with the same drive wheels.  Each experience has something to offer. 

[MexicoCityM3]

I couldn't see myself having a garage full of cars with the same drive wheels.  Each experience has something to offer. 

If I had lot?s of cars I'd get a few with FWD (hot hatches mostly). But they'd be in the minority for sure.

[MexicoCityM3]

One FWD car that I currently crave is the new MINI roadster. Saw one at the dealership the other day and loved it. But it costs as much as a 6 year old Boxster S. Tough to get it over that alternative.

[Rich]

I still want to experience an Integra Type R or a mid 90s Civic coupe.  Haven't gotten to drive one yet.

[Cookie Monster]

Part of the steering feel is due to the lack of interference from FWD components (position of steering rack/tie rods for example), and due to the greater freedome in geometry (no axles, narrower engine = longer struts, longer LCAs = better geometry)

Point is though, just cause folks don't know FWD or RWD doesn't mean they can't feel the difference, and if the new 1 doesn't maintain that "BMW feel" (I dont think it will) it will bomb

I know it will be harder, which is why it's IF they can get the BMW feel they might be OK. I'm not holding out hope though.

[2o6]

I know it will be harder, which is why it's IF they can get the BMW feel they might be OK. I'm not holding out hope though.

Mini.

[Vinsanity]

Once upon a time.

Once upon a time indeed. But even by 2004, Honda was losing touch with their expertise in superb FWD handling. The prior-gen TL was a commendable effort in replicating the BMW feel in a FWD car...until you drove an actual BMW. Even the Caddy felt inherently more balanced, even if it feels like the GM engineers didn't try as hard to mimick that coveted BMW feel.

[Vinsanity]

I couldn't see myself having a garage full of cars with the same drive wheels.  Each experience has something to offer. 

I definitely can. I don't feel like I'd be missing out on not having a FWD car.

[cawimmer430]

But I was talking about the North American market. We don't live in crowded cities with tiny streets. We (especially those who can afford luxury cars) live in sprawling suburban-style areas. For most Americans, the small car would be seen as the impractical car you buy as a fun ride rather than your daily driver. I'm not saying people don't use small cars as daily drivers here (they do!) but a car like a 1er is often something somebody would have as a second car.

I think the 3er and X3/X5 are considered to be far more "practical" cars here.

RWD in a compact car like a 1-Series 5-Door doesn't make much sense, especially when all other cars in its class are FWD and offer a roomier interior due to that. One of the biggest complaints regarding the 1-Series is the lack of rear passenger leg room and the small fuel tank. A FWD layout would increase rear leg space and possibly even allow for a larger fuel tank. I'm not sure you've seen the width and height of the transmission tunnel inside a 1-Series but it's huge (bigger than the one in my parents RWD Mercedes E350 CGI!!!).

I can see the argument for it in a 1-Series Coupe, Mazda MX-5, Subaru BRZ, Nissan 370Z and such because these cars aren't really bought with practicality in mind (aka "transporting people around").

It's a matter of people asking themselves why they're spending more money to drive an FWD 1er than an RWD BRZ, which comes with more features anyway. If someone doesn't care about badge snobbery, BMW is making this model far less attractive.

Do people even cross-shop a 1er with a BRZ?

I don't see this as them making the cars more competitive. I see them watering down this model in a race to the lowest common denominator of the class, and taking away a potentially unique aspect of the model range.

I disagree.

In current European tests, the 1er always shines in the dynamic/handling department. And that's it. The FWD cars in its class beat it in other criteria in part due to their FWD layout.

The few people buying a 1er because it is RWD aren't enough compared to the people who buy it for other reasons and don't care about which wheels are powered. Those that want RWD can always upgrade to a 3-Series or buy a used 1st or 2nd generation 1-Series.

But again, a car like the 1er is not thought of as a "practical" car in some markets. If they've made the decision to target this car at the European market first and foremost and this is the way they think they can sell more of them, fine. But it will cost them sales in other markets such as North America. I wish the company would level with us about their reasoning for this decision, but they never will.

The 1er caters to young professionals (M/F) seeking a sporty premium car here (but is also bought by senior citizens). But people have different views on sport. FWD and RWD can both be sporty or unsporty.

[Raza]

If I had lot?s of cars I'd get a few with FWD (hot hatches mostly). But they'd be in the minority for sure.

I'd be absolutely fine with adding a FWD daily driver down the road.  AWD is fine, but it adds a little too much to the running costs over a FWD car.  I've never had snow enough that I couldn't get through that I wouldn't just stay home in an AWD sedan anyway. 

[Raza]

I still want to experience an Integra Type R or a mid 90s Civic coupe.  Haven't gotten to drive one yet.

You should just steal one like everybody else does.