Lightning Lap 2013

[GoCougs]

Guys, the 1LE simply outperforms the Boss 302 and Boss 302 LS and it's not because of "tires." It's simply the better engineered car (and cost a quite a bit less to boot).

[sportyaccordy]

Again, not really. Put 20" 285 Sport Cups at all four corners of the base Camaro SS and watch it not do a whole lot better, in addition to probably picking up some undesirable handling traits. Again, if it was mostly tires, that's probably what GM would have done for for the 1LE trim package. It's about holistic automotive engineering not bolting on stuff from out of a catalog.

When it comes to lap times tires>>>>>>>>>>>>

I would bet the SS would come way closer to the 1LE's lap times with the same tires + stock suspension than same suspension + stock tires

When it comes to grip at the track you can never have enough and tires are the most direct way to increase it.
And years of actual data agree

http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-reports/scion-fr-s-tire-transformation

Scion FRS gained ~3 seconds on a 1m~28s lap with just a tire swap... you won't get those kinds of gains with a suspension swap when the stock tires are already out of their element

[sportyaccordy]

Guys, the 1LE simply outperforms the Boss 302 and Boss 302 LS and it's not because of "tires." It's simply the better engineered car (and cost a quite a bit less to boot).

Youre arguing a point nobody made, repeatedly. Nobody claimed "tires" were the only difference between the Stang and Camaro besides you.

[hotrodalex]

you won't get those kinds of gains with a suspension swap when the stock tires are already out of their element

Well duh....

That's like saying you won't get more frames per second on Call of Duty when you upgrade your processor but keep your stock video card that is holding you back. Obviously upgrading the limiting factor will net you the most results. In the FR-S's case, it's the tires. The suspension has already been tuned well.

[LonghornTX]

Wider, stickier tires allow you to take advantage of the handling characteristics produced by suspension tuning.

Stick less grippy tires on a good handling car and it's still going to handle well. Track times start with getting the right set up and are only aided by grippy tires that allow you to push limits.

We are talking about lap times here, not how "well" a car handles. Stick those less grippy tires on a good handling car, and sure it will still handle well, but on a race track, its lap times will suffer.

[LonghornTX]

Guys, the 1LE simply outperforms the Boss 302 and Boss 302 LS and it's not because of "tires." It's simply the better engineered car (and cost a quite a bit less to boot).

On this one track (the one where the majority of its tuning was done). Take the race to Laguna Seca (where the LS was tuned), and it will probably be different. They are both very well engineered cars and the Boss definitely has the better motor in it (which costs $$$).

Have you driven a BOSS? Have you even driven an SS? And you never answered my previous question...have you ever tracked a car or tuned a car for a track?

[hotrodalex]

We are talking about lap times here, not how "well" a car handles. Stick those less grippy tires on a good handling car, and sure it will still handle well, but on a race track, its lap times will suffer.

[GoCougs]

Mustang guys sure are persistent in the face of evidence.

[LonghornTX]

That idea seemed to be in doubt, per your response.

[LonghornTX]

Mustang guys sure are persistent in the face of evidence.

I'll take that as a no to all three questions then.

[GoCougs]

I'll take that as a no to all three questions then.

To which questions exactly?

[LonghornTX]

To which questions exactly?

"Have you driven a BOSS? Have you even driven an SS? And you never answered my previous question...have you ever tracked a car or tuned a car for a track?"

[GoCougs]

"Have you driven a BOSS? Have you even driven an SS? And you never answered my previous question...have you ever tracked a car or tuned a car for a track?"

I only answer relevant questions and as a bonus I also only ask relevant questions; for example, I'd not ask you if you'd had either car on a track and I'd not ask if you could actually drive either car at more than 5/10ths (and thus if discern which was the better performer).

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

 

[Eye of the Tiger]

I heard the Cobalt SS was pretty quick.

[SVT666]

Those are all relevant questions actually.  The answer to all of LonghornTX's questions are "No".  I already went over those questions before.

[LonghornTX]

I only answer relevant questions and as a bonus I also only ask relevant questions; for example, I'd not ask you if you'd had either car on a track and I'd not ask if you could actually drive either car at more than 5/10ths (and thus if discern which was the better performer).

So again, I take that as a no to all three. They are relevant questions because they pertain to the cars and topics you seem so willing to discuss as if you know what you are talking about. Since you haven't actually driven any of the cars in question, nor driven on a track, I will now know you are simply speaking as a keyboard jockey.

Me? I am by no means a racing driver, but having done multiple track events for training at my last job and having sold various exotics for a living (I was the top Lotus salesman in the country for awhile, and you can't really sell those cars without demonstrating their performance), I feel comfortable being able to discern the finer points of a vehicle in comparison with its peers, even if it is on the street. I also drive a pretty thoroughly modified S197 and have driven that car very close to its limits on deserted back roads in the Hill Country of Central TX, as my friends and I like to go on cruises (and we all own hi-po vehicles). Also, consider that the BOSS is owned by my close friend, and him and I allow each other to drive each others cars as if they were our own. The SS I drove was a trade-in and I drove it pretty hard for the street, prob 6-7/10s. Neither of them were at the track, so I lay no claim to having track time in either the BOSS or SS. I have also driven a V6 RS, but that was ultra lame.

I haven't driven a ZL1 or 1LE and probably won't get a chance anytime soon, unless I go steal a test drive. But I wouldn't do that because A) I have been there, and it sucks getting JO'ed and B) I have absolutely no interest in this generation of Camaro, despite them being great performers at 9 or 10/10s at a track. On the street, they feel huge, they have terrible sightlines, and they feel ultra cheap inside (even compared to a Mustang). Their exterior also doesn't appeal to me, but I know some love it.

I am biased, absolutely. But I am not some Ford guy by genetics...I would love the Camaro if it appealed to me. It probably will, more so than the next Mustang at least, after the redesign of the Mustang in 2015. I am not in love with the way it is looking right now.

[GoCougs]

You and your friends like to go on cruises? C'mon man, you shouldn't have even tried. 

[LonghornTX]

You and your friends like to go on cruises? C'mon man, you shouldn't have even tried. 

What is wrong with going on cruises?

[sportyaccordy]

What is wrong with going on cruises?

You are walking into his trap. Take Cougs diversion as an implicit admission of defeat. Benchracefailspin.

[GoCougs]

What is wrong with going on cruises?

You tried too hard to "prove" your position and as a result are defeated. Sporty and SVT666 have been there countless times so they can help guide you through the process.

[MrH]

  This is solid internetry.

[hotrodalex]

Sporty and SVT666 have been there countless times so they can help guide you through the process.

[Lebowski]

Youre arguing a point nobody made, repeatedly.

And by golly there's room for only one Strawman here at SportySpin!

[MrH]

And by golly there's room for only one Strawman here at SportySpin!

LOL!  Got shot some dirty looks from coworkers on conference calls after laughing at that one.

[GoCougs]

C'mon guys, it's just the Internet  .

[Xer0]

LOL!  Got shot some dirty looks from coworkers on conference calls after laughing at that one.

I'm greatly enjoying Sportspin myself

[sportyaccordy]

You tried too hard to "prove" your position and as a result are defeated. Sporty and SVT666 have been there countless times so they can help guide you through the process.

I lol'd.

[Cookie Monster]

I laughed so hard at that.

[sportyaccordy]

And by golly there's room for only one Strawman here at SportySpin!

OK Lebowski here is your daily dose of my attention

Show me who besides Cougs said the Camaro beat the Mustang solely because of tires.