What was the last "game changer"?

[sportyaccordy]

One reason I don't get excited about cars anymore is that it seems like manufacturers have given up on taking risk and are going for meaningless niche or very cautious surface level "evolution"

I mean look at this list of cars:

1987 BMW M3
1983 Camry
1986 Taurus
1989 LS400
1997 Corvette
2002 WRX
1989 NSX
2004 Prius
1983(?) Caravan

Etc...

These cars completely changed the automotive landscape, either in their respective segments or across the board. Some cars like the 1999 911 with the new watercooled engine represented important culture shifts within a company

So I guess aside from the 2004 Prius, which I count because it took the Prius from a cool but very niche creature to a legitimate and brilliant hybrid, what do you guys think were some of the "game changers" of the last decade, and is the hail mary game changer a thing of the past?

[CALL_911]

The 2003 350Z was pretty significant. It definitely upped the ante in its segment. I'd say the Toyobaru twins (surprise, surprise) are gamechangers today. Back in the day, the 1999 RX300 could also be said to be a gamechanger.

EDIT: The E30 M3 was a homologation special, how did it change the automotive landscape? It was a great car, but I don't know about total gamechanger- it didn't have that kind of widespread appeal. C5 Corvette? I also disagree with the '83 Camry, I'd say the '88+ or the '92+ (I'd be more inclined to go with the '92+) Camry was the true gamechanger. The '83 was hardly significant.

[CALL_911]

Also, the 2003 V6 Altima started a horsepower war in the family sedan segment. So did the 2003 G35. 2003 was one hell of a year for Nissan.

[Rich]

The Briz/Friz is a game changer.  First and only of it's type (lightweight, emphasis on feel+feedback) in the last 10 years, in which crash safety and profitability has changed quite a bit.

It won't sell much, but IMO the Model S is a game changer

[MrH]

Yeah, I'd say the BRZ/FRS and Model S are both big game changers.


The Volt too.  I think the new A-class coming to the US will rank up there too.  There's a ton of "game changers" in recent years...

[Laconian]

Datsun 240Z.

[S204STi]

Ford Explorer, and then Subaru Outback.

[Vinsanity]

I'm not personally a big fan, but I'd consider the 1998-99 Volkswagens (Beetle, Jetta, Passat) to be game changers. Those cars sold the public on the idea of a premium mainstream car. And even if they weren't better built than a '92 Camry or '94 Accord, VW's marketing team convinced people that they were a step up from other run-of-the-mill family cars.

Other game-changing cars I'd include:

1989 Miata
1989 Maxima
1990 300ZX TT
1990 Explorer
1996 RAV4
1998 RX300
1998 Navigator
2000 Lincoln LS
2005 Mustang

Thinking about those last 3, it seems that Ford pioneers an idea, but GM popularizes it (Escalade, CTS, Camaro)

[sportyaccordy]

How is BRS a  gamechanger? It was a big risk, but its basically a hardtop Miata... which will be 25 in 2 years. A good and welcome addition but not a gamechanger IMO

Sent from handheld Minority Report console

[Rich]

How is BRS a  gamechanger? It was a big risk, but its basically a hardtop Miata... which will be 25 in 2 years. A good and welcome addition but not a gamechanger IMO

Sent from handheld Minority Report console

I can see it going either way, yeah, it pretty much is a hard top Miata with back seats, but how many other hard top Miata with back seats are there?  0...  So they filled a black hole, in which something that hadn't existed within current government regulations, but now there's something there.

[sportyaccordy]

The 2003 350Z was pretty significant. It definitely upped the ante in its segment. I'd say the Toyobaru twins (surprise, surprise) are gamechangers today. Back in the day, the 1999 RX300 could also be said to be a gamechanger.

EDIT: The E30 M3 was a homologation special, how did it change the automotive landscape? It was a great car, but I don't know about total gamechanger- it didn't have that kind of widespread appeal. C5 Corvette? I also disagree with the '83 Camry, I'd say the '88+ or the '92+ (I'd be more inclined to go with the '92+) Camry was the true gamechanger. The '83 was hardly significant.

E30 wasn't a changer in its day but I think its philosophy is appreciated now. C5 legitimized the brand aa legit world class sports car. 83 Camry was a revelation and huge success. The rest were good but not paradigm shifters

Sent from handheld Minority Report console

[MrH]

It's a better car to drive.  It's out Miata-ed the miata, while being cheaper (when comparably equipped) and more practical.  The fact that the miata has been the trophy of cheap, fun to drive thrills for 25 years, and someone overthrew it like this, that's huge.

[MrH]

I'm not personally a big fan, but I'd consider the 1998-99 Volkswagens (Beetle, Jetta, Passat) to be game changers. Those cars sold the public on the idea of a premium mainstream car. And even if they weren't better built than a '92 Camry or '94 Accord, VW's marketing team convinced people that they were a step up from other run-of-the-mill family cars.

Other game-changing cars I'd include:

1989 Miata
1989 Maxima
1990 300ZX TT
1990 Explorer
1996 RAV4
1998 RX300
1998 Navigator
2000 Lincoln LS
2005 Mustang

Thinking about those last 3, it seems that Ford pioneers an idea, but GM popularizes it (Escalade, CTS, Camaro)

Wow, I agree on every thing you just said.  Great post.

+1

Also, interesting take on GM perfecting a lot of Ford's ideas.  You could argue the Mustang is equally as successful as the Camaro.  Immediately begs the question:  Is the same thing going to happen to the Ford MyTouch?  After using the CUE system, it might take a little time, but it's well on its way.

[MexicoCityM3]

Interesting topic for a thread.

I'd add several cars to the list.

The original VW Golf brought us the compact hatch in full force. The Nissan GT-R has reset the price/performance ratio for it's class. The Merc ML/BMW X5 brought the luxury players into the SUV segment to huge success.

I don't think the original M3 was a game changer, but the M5 was. At its launch it demonstrated what a sports sedan could and woul beat sports cars if built correctly.

[MX793]

It's a better car to drive.  It's out Miata-ed the miata, while being cheaper (when comparably equipped) and more practical.  The fact that the miata has been the trophy of cheap, fun to drive thrills for 25 years, and someone overthrew it like this, that's huge.

I doubt they will sell as well, though.  The convertible market is a unique beast, and the Miata still lays claim to not only being one of the most fun to drive cars at its price point, but being pretty much the only engaging, fun to drive convertible under $30K (and one of only 3 or 4 drop-tops available at under $30K).  There have always been fun to drive, sporty cars offered at a similar, or lower, price point with more practicality throughout the entirety of the Miata's life, but no other convertible has been able to rival the Miata's overall package of fun to drive convertible with some semblance of practicality at a low price.  The few that have tried failed after only a couple of years.

[MrH]

I doubt they will sell as well, though.  The convertible market is a unique beast, and the Miata still lays claim to not only being one of the most fun to drive cars at its price point, but being pretty much the only engaging, fun to drive convertible under $30K (and one of only 3 or 4 drop-tops available at under $30K).  There have always been fun to drive, sporty cars offered at a similar, or lower, price point with more practicality throughout the entirety of the Miata's life, but no other convertible has been able to rival the Miata's overall package of fun to drive convertible with some semblance of practicality at a low price.  The few that have tried failed after only a couple of years.

But there's a BRZ/FRS convertible in the making...I think that poses a serious threat to the death grip the Miata has on the convertible market.  I do agree though, the convertible world is a weird place.  There's always been fun to drive, more practical the cars.  But none really dethroned the Miata in terms of nimbleness, enjoyment, or feedback.  This is the first one that really tops it for the price.  It does everything better than the current miata besides dropping the top, and that's in the works.

As for sales, you're underestimating the Toyobaru twins.  Currently, Mazda is going to be making somewhere between 15k-20k units/year until the new Miata debuts.  Pretty terrible.  When the new joint venture with Alfa produces a new miata and some alfa rendition, sales are projected to be 40k-50k/year combined.

BRZ/FRS/86 sales are going to be in the 70k-80k range, and might even creep past that with the following generation.  These are world wide production numbers btw.

[GoCougs]

I'm gonna say the Nissan FM platform and specifically, the 2003 350Z and 2003 G35.

[sportyaccordy]

I'm gonna say the Nissan FM platform and specifically, the 2003 350Z and 2003 G35.

This is a good one. Really put the Germans on edge and forced the whole segment to step its game up in the performance dept. Also was a hail mary that brought Nissan back from the brink. Folks who don't believe me should look at Infiniti's 2002 lineup. 3 rebadges and a flagship on its way out.

It's a better car to drive.  It's out Miata-ed the miata, while being cheaper (when comparably equipped) and more practical.  The fact that the miata has been the trophy of cheap, fun to drive thrills for 25 years, and someone overthrew it like this, that's huge.

Eh fair enough.

[MX793]

But there's a BRZ/FRS convertible in the making...I think that poses a serious threat to the death grip the Miata has on the convertible market.  I do agree though, the convertible world is a weird place.  There's always been fun to drive, more practical the cars.  But none really dethroned the Miata in terms of nimbleness, enjoyment, or feedback.  This is the first one that really tops it for the price.  It does everything better than the current miata besides dropping the top, and that's in the works.

As for sales, you're underestimating the Toyobaru twins.  Currently, Mazda is going to be making somewhere between 15k-20k units/year until the new Miata debuts.  Pretty terrible.  When the new joint venture with Alfa produces a new miata and some alfa rendition, sales are projected to be 40k-50k/year combined.

BRZ/FRS/86 sales are going to be in the 70k-80k range, and might even creep past that with the following generation.  These are world wide production numbers btw.

The Toyobaru is in its first year as a highly anticipated car.  I would not consider first year sales to be representative of a typical sales year.  We'll see how well it's doing 4-5 years in after all of the "I gotta have it" people have snatched theirs up in the first two to three years.  Just look at the S197 ('05+) Mustang.  They sold over 160K units in the first two years, 135K units in the 3rd year, 91K in the 4th year and 66K in the 5th.  Sales picked up some after the '10 refresh, but they're still less than half what the car sold in its first couple of years.   The NC MX-5 is now in its 7th model year.  It's not the latest thing anymore.  The NC has also not been nearly as popular as the NB was (the economic climate has not helped here), and the NB did not sell as well as the NA.

[MrH]

These are numbers pulled from an analytics company I use for work.  They are usually pretty accurate with predicting these things and take the new model anticipation into account.  But in 4-5 years, there will be an updated BRZ/FRS/86 to keep the train rolling.  I don't think they'll have trouble keeping the demand up on these.

I think the declining sales of the Miata says a lot actually.  The really long product cycles are killing them.  If Toyota/Subaru stay on a traditional 5 year product cycle, Mazda is not going to be able to keep up.

[Speed_Racer]

How about the SVT Raptor?

[S204STi]

These are numbers pulled from an analytics company I use for work.  They are usually pretty accurate with predicting these things and take the new model anticipation into account.  But in 4-5 years, there will be an updated BRZ/FRS/86 to keep the train rolling.  I don't think they'll have trouble keeping the demand up on these.

I think the declining sales of the Miata says a lot actually.  The really long product cycles are killing them.  If Toyota/Subaru stay on a traditional 5 year product cycle, Mazda is not going to be able to keep up.

Perhaps significantly, Subaru is now on a 4-year cycle...

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

[Vinsanity]

Wow, I agree on every thing you just said.  Great post.

+1

Also, interesting take on GM perfecting a lot of Ford's ideas.  You could argue the Mustang is equally as successful as the Camaro.  Immediately begs the question:  Is the same thing going to happen to the Ford MyTouch?  After using the CUE system, it might take a little time, but it's well on its way.

Thanks! Good to know I can still type up a gem among my other random meaningless posts

The thing I take issue with on CUE and MyTouch is that they're not much of an improvement over the standard "buttons on the dash" setup we've been used to from decades past. Yeah, you can give the MyTouch a voice command saying "PLAY RADIO DISNEY", but that's not any easier than just pressing your programmed preset button for Radio Disney*. The thing that cracks me up more is the haptic feedback on the CUE. A button-less panel that simulates the feel of pressing a button. Really?

* No, I don't really listen to Radio Disney.

[MrH]

Thanks! Good to know I can still type up a gem among my other random meaningless posts

The thing I take issue with on CUE and MyTouch is that they're not much of an improvement over the standard "buttons on the dash" setup we've been used to from decades past. Yeah, you can give the MyTouch a voice command saying "PLAY RADIO DISNEY", but that's not any easier than just pressing your programmed preset button for Radio Disney*. The thing that cracks me up more is the haptic feedback on the CUE. A button-less panel that simulates the feel of pressing a button. Really?

* No, I don't really listen to Radio Disney.

Well, I guess my only response to that is:  Didn't everyone have the same exact response to touch screen cell phones at first?  Tons of people thought the lack of buttons was silly for awhile.  Now it's tough to find one with a physical keyboard.

Cars are harder to implement this kind of thing in, but I see the possibilities for it.  Replace a ton of buttons with a face that can morph into large, haptic touch buttons depending on the need.

[Cookie Monster]

Well, I guess my only response to that is:  Didn't everyone have the same exact response to touch screen cell phones at first?  Tons of people thought the lack of buttons was silly for awhile.  Now it's tough to find one with a physical keyboard.

Cars are harder to implement this kind of thing in, but I see the possibilities for it.  Replace a ton of buttons with a face that can morph into large, haptic touch buttons depending on the need.

I'm not sold on the touch screen stuff. While driving I don't want to have to look at a screen to press a button. All the buttons on my dash can be used without looking, and that's the only way I like it.

[MrH]

I'm not sold on the touch screen stuff. While driving I don't want to have to look at a screen to press a button. All the buttons on my dash can be used without looking, and that's the only way I like it.

People said the same about cell phones

[Cookie Monster]

People said the same about cell phones

Um, that's not the same thing at all.

When using buttons in a car, I'm not going to take my eyes off the road to press them. With a phone, I can focus 100% on the phone and where I'm pressing.

[2o6]

'00 Focus - showed automakers how to build a legitimately good small car that punched above it's weight; started the trend IMO towards an improved attitude to smaller cars

'04 Scion xB; ignore the obnoxiously boxy styling, and it's actually just a sensible subcompact with great economy; showed Americans that subcompacts needen't be penalty boxes.


'01 Elantra - possibly the first Korean car that someone legitimately wanted to buy

'11 Sonata - the first Korean midsizer that was legitimately better than the competition; even if you don't like the styling, it feels much higher quality and more expensive than GM, Ford, Honda and even Toyota on many fronts

'96 RAV4 and '97 CR-V - pioneered the Compact FWD CUV as we know it. I wonder if things would be different if Nissan brought over the Rasheen and X-Trail instead of trying to get the Xterra to do something it can't.

[sportyaccordy]

Well, I guess my only response to that is:  Didn't everyone have the same exact response to touch screen cell phones at first?  Tons of people thought the lack of buttons was silly for awhile.  Now it's tough to find one with a physical keyboard.

Cars are harder to implement this kind of thing in, but I see the possibilities for it.  Replace a ton of buttons with a face that can morph into large, haptic touch buttons depending on the need.

There aren't too many situations in which operating a cell phone w/o looking at it is necessary/convenient... and most (if not all) cell phones still have button for situations that do (volume control + sleep/power/reset for example)

I think a touch screen interface is OK for non-critical functions. I will probably get a double DIN HU in my next car for navigation for example. But in that realm, in which customers are far more scrutinizing + less tolerant of crap, even a good touch screen unit will be flanked with sight free knobs and buttons. Similarly there is no need for touch screen HVAC, where 2-3 knobs and a small display would suffice. Its not like cars are hurting for center console real estate. This is def one of the sillier + more pointless automotive ideas. Americans are terrible enough drivers.

[MrH]

Um, that's not the same thing at all.

When using buttons in a car, I'm not going to take my eyes off the road to press them. With a phone, I can focus 100% on the phone and where I'm pressing.

The argument of "I want to be able to text while driving or in class without having to look at my phone" is the same argument you're making.  A well designed touchscreen will allow you do the same without looking once you get used to it.