TDI fades into regulatory oblivion; Enter Miata

[12,000 RPM]

Lol @ talking about breaking even on the purchase of a brand new car via fuel costs. Apparently Char has never heard of this thing called "depreciation" which outweighs pretty much any financial consideration that can be made on a car purchase.

[Tave]

Yeah, it looks to me like VW is putting the quality and content back into the Jetta that they stripped out of it a few years ago.

No more Fisher-Price quality interior controls, right? And the independent rear suspension is back too, I hear.  I really haven't kept up with the Jetta since they downgraded it so I'm wondering if it's now as good as it was before the misguided cost cutting.

Congrats on the new car, BTW.  The TDI is a phenomenal engine!

Most everything in mine feels pretty solid. The TDI and GLI have the soft-touch dash up front and then the same hard panels as the TSI going aft. I drove them back-to-back and I think ultimately that shouldn't sway a buyer one way or the other. You can't even tell unless you push on the material fairly hard, it feels exactly like the cheaper dash if you only rest your hand against it. Design is great. Switchgear is good if not class-leading like on past models. Some of that is replaced on the higher trims, like mine, but don't know if you can entirely avoid it without moving up to the GTi, Passat, CC, etc...

[Payman]

Lol @ talking about breaking even on the purchase of a brand new car via fuel costs. Apparently Char has never heard of this thing called "depreciation" which outweighs pretty much any financial consideration that can be made on a car purchase.

Even then, TDi VWs hold their value pretty well.

[12,000 RPM]

Even then, TDi VWs hold their value pretty well.

Only cause VW owners are doodieheads

[Char]

He admits that his purchase isn't a logical one. The TDI Jetta does everything worse than an Accord, it's slower, it's less reliable (wait for those intercooler issues. ) It handles worse, it's a VW.

On the flip side, he can fit in with the rest of the clueless consumers on the website. Desiel engines are overrated, just like this car. But hey, if you're happy - more power to you.

[hotrodalex]

lol why do you even post here if we're all VW loving idiots.

[Char]

Why not? Gives me something to do.

[Tave]

He admits that his purchase isn't a logical one.

I admit I didn't buy it to "break-even" on fuel savings. Beyond that I don't know how big of a role logic plays in new car purchases.

The TDI Jetta does everything worse than an Accord, it's slower, it's less reliable (wait for those intercooler issues. ) It handles worse, it's a VW.

Off the line it's just as fast as the Accord CVT and around a half-tick slower than the manual, so more like even to slightly slower. But that's from a dead stop, I wouldn't be surprised if the roll-outs and midrange numbers favor the TDI. And neither the Accord nor the TDI feels wanting for power to me which is all that really matters.

The Accord feels a little crisper with less roll and tighter turn-in. The VW has a better ride and is quieter while maintaining decent handling traits.

Also the Accord was/is either more expensive or simply unavailable with the options I wanted (non-cloth seats, sunroof, premium audio).

Regardless, I wasn't going to buy an Accord, so it doesn't matter.

[Payman]

I admit I didn't buy it to "break-even" on fuel savings. Beyond that I don't know how big of a role logic plays in new car purchases.

Off the line it's just as fast as the Accord CVT and around a half-tick slower than the manual, so more like even to slightly slower. But that's from a dead stop, I wouldn't be surprised if the roll-outs and midrange numbers favor the TDI. And neither the Accord nor the TDI feels wanting for power to me which is all that really matters.

The Accord feels a little crisper with less roll and tighter turn-in. The VW has a better ride and is quieter while maintaining decent handling traits.

Also the Accord was/is either more expensive or simply unavailable with the options I wanted (non-cloth seats, sunroof, premium audio).

Regardless, I wasn't going to buy an Accord, so it doesn't matter.

Don't waste your time with that clown.

[2o6]

Why not? Gives me something to do.

Christ, dude - FUCK OFF.

[Char]

Don't waste your time with that clown.

Yeah, don't waste time responding to logical argument - it might break the circle jerk that is rampant on these forums.

[Char]

I admit I didn't buy it to "break-even" on fuel savings. Beyond that I don't know how big of a role logic plays in new car purchases.

Off the line it's just as fast as the Accord CVT and around a half-tick slower than the manual, so more like even to slightly slower. But that's from a dead stop, I wouldn't be surprised if the roll-outs and midrange numbers favor the TDI. And neither the Accord nor the TDI feels wanting for power to me which is all that really matters.

The Accord feels a little crisper with less roll and tighter turn-in. The VW has a better ride and is quieter while maintaining decent handling traits.

Also the Accord was/is either more expensive or simply unavailable with the options I wanted (non-cloth seats, sunroof, premium audio).

Regardless, I wasn't going to buy an Accord, so it doesn't matter.

It's just slower period. It's also slower and barely gets better mileage than the Mazda 3. There is literally SO many other cars that can do what it does better - WHY? I need to understand it.

[hotrodalex]

Tave, I'm glad you got the car you wanted.

[MexicoCityM3]

Christ, dude - FUCK OFF.

Because we all have to agree on the Internet?

Char keeps things more interesting than everybody just nodding.

Having said that, I think there is no "objective" best choice, after all it's a very personal thing a car and congrats to Tave on the TDI.

[Tave]

It's just slower period. It's also slower and barely gets better mileage than the Mazda 3.

Again, I wasn't that concerned with power. If I had been, I would have bought the TSI, which is faster than the 2.0 Mazda and faster than the Accord while being cheaper too. However:

Motor Trend clocks the Accord at 7.6 seconds
US News reports Edmunds Accord test: 7.8 seconds
Motor Trend tests 2013 TDI at 8 seconds flat
Motor Trend tests the 2014 Mazda 3 at 7.8 seconds

I really don't see a meaningful difference there, note too that the reviewers predicted the DSG would improve the TDI's acceleration numbers. Back to my other point, 0-60 is more about traction, gearing, and engine characteristics off the line than it is useable power. Go out and give the TDI a whirl, it doesn't feel anemic at all. It's a hoot of a mill.

There is literally SO many other cars that can do what it does better - WHY? I need to understand it.

What's to understand? You've mentioned 2 cars: Accord and Mazda 3. I didn't want another Accord (as much as I love it) and the Mazda3 was too small. 

[Tave]

Don't waste your time with that clown.

Because we all have to agree on the Internet?

Char keeps things more interesting than everybody just nodding.

Yeah I don't mind humoring the guy he's fine. I am worried that he's going to develop hypertension within 5 years, but we can work on that.

[Char]

Again, I wasn't that concerned with power. If I had been, I would have bought the TSI, which is faster than the 2.0 Mazda and faster than the Accord while being cheaper too. However:

Motor Trend clocks the Accord at 7.6 seconds
US News reports Edmunds Accord test: 7.8 seconds
Motor Trend tests 2013 TDI at 8 seconds flat
Motor Trend tests the 2014 Mazda 3 at 7.8 seconds

I really don't see a meaningful difference there, note too that the reviewers predicted the DSG would improve the TDI's acceleration numbers. Back to my other point, 0-60 is more about traction, gearing, and engine characteristics off the line than it is useable power. Go out and give the TDI a whirl, it doesn't feel anemic at all. It's a hoot of a mill.

What's to understand? You've mentioned 2 cars: Accord and Mazda 3. I didn't want another Accord (as much as I love it) and the Mazda3 was too small. 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sport-24-long-term-update-review-long-term-intro-page-3
6.6 to 60 and no timing belts
the Mazda 3 Sedan with the 2.5 and manual haven't been tested as far as I know.

Also note the Accord is a full second and a half quicker through the 1/4mile and has a substantially higher trap speed. So does the heavier (automatic) more powerfule 2.5 Mazda 3.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1312_2014_mazda3_i_sedan_s_hatch_first_test/
I mean, I know it's a choice and I know your happy, but the VW really didn't do anything better besides being quirky. Is that enough?

[MexicoCityM3]

Even if I don't ever make up the difference in fuel costs, I am attracted to the idea of the much longer range in a diesel. Less stopping for fuel is cool.

[Char]

Even if I don't ever make up the difference in fuel costs, I am attracted to the idea of the much longer range in a diesel. Less stopping for fuel is cool.

Real world mileage isn't that impressive from what I've seen (compared to gas powered cars) slower, heavier and cost more. It's a hard case to make for me.

[Tave]

Right now I'm seeing 30-35 around town and 40-43 on the highway. Do yourself a favor and drive one. It doesn't like to jump from a standstill so it won't win many stoplight wars, but it absolutely rips at speed.

I love it, reminds me of my grandma's 850.

[CJ]

Right now I'm seeing 30-35 around town and 40-43 on the highway. Do yourself a favor and drive one. It doesn't like to jump from a standstill so it won't win many stoplight wars, but it absolutely rips at speed.

I love it, reminds me of my grandma's 850.

That's about exactly what we get on the highway, but your city MPG will improve.


Your grandma has an 850?

[MexicoCityM3]

I am getting 13 MPG in the city. 35 MPG city I have enever experienced. Ever. In any car.

[MrH]

I am getting 13 MPG in the city. 35 MPG city I have enever experienced. Ever. In any car.

That means you're doing it right

[Rupert]

Nice, Tave.

[12,000 RPM]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sport-24-long-term-update-review-long-term-intro-page-3
6.6 to 60 and no timing belts
the Mazda 3 Sedan with the 2.5 and manual haven't been tested as far as I know.

Also note the Accord is a full second and a half quicker through the 1/4mile and has a substantially higher trap speed. So does the heavier (automatic) more powerfule 2.5 Mazda 3.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1312_2014_mazda3_i_sedan_s_hatch_first_test/
I mean, I know it's a choice and I know your happy, but the VW really didn't do anything better besides being quirky. Is that enough?

Lol, stickshift Accord to automatic Jetta... by Char standards an unbiased apples to apples comparison

Why not? Gives me something to do.

Maybe you should hang out with real people, or get laid, or something lol. That NOT convincing some strangers on the internet that VW is the devil's incarnate = the highlight of your day = pretty damn depressing.

[Char]

Lol, stickshift Accord to automatic Jetta... by Char standards an unbiased apples to apples comparison
Maybe you should hang out with real people, or get laid, or something lol. That NOT convincing some strangers on the internet that VW is the devil's incarnate = the highlight of your day = pretty damn depressing.

TDI is still slow. I don't see how mid range torque that allows you to accelerate no quicker than cars with half as much power is impressive, but I guess that's my fault.

[Tave]

That's about exactly what we get on the highway, but your city MPG will improve.


Your grandma has an 850?

Kind of. She's in a nursing home right now, the car is back at her house.

[Tave]

TDI is still slow. I don't see how mid range torque that allows you to accelerate no quicker than cars with half as much power is impressive, but I guess that's my fault.

Sheeat pilgrim, and I got the sunroof and extra speakers too. It must be slow as molasses.

[Madman]

Honda hasn't made a desirable Accord since the 1990s.  The current one is the very definition of "Meh".

[CALL_911]

Your opinion is hereby invalid