***2013 Jaguar F-Type Premiere at Avalon Cars, Munich***

[SVT666]

Auto Express review of all three F-Types

[MexicoCityM3]

The reviews I've seen say it drives pretty well, though the V6 is better than the V8, and it's much more GT than sports car.

Pretty well but falls behind any of the competitive Porsches.

[SVT666]

Tiff Needell liked the car too, but said it doesn't come close to matching the experience one gets in a 911.  He still said it was just as much fun as the Porsche, but not as fast around a track....big deal.  I dig this car a lot.

[SVT666]

Pretty well but falls behind any of the competitive Porsches.

What's your point?  Let's be honest here, pretty much everything falls behind the Porsches.

[MexicoCityM3]

What's your point?  Let's be honest here, pretty much everything falls behind the Porsches.

Well, this is more expensive than the equivalent Porsches. Something like a 1M falls behind (a bit) but it's a lot cheaper. Something like an R8 doesn't fall behind at all.

This was supposed to be a fantastic sports car and it falls short. The original E-Type destroyed everything in its class way back when. So to me, this car is a bit of a dissapointment. I am sure it's good, but I was expecting it'd be a car I'd be dying to get. And it isn't.

[MrH]

So now, a step behind a Porsche dynamically = a flop and disappointment?

Tough crowd.  There sure are a ton of disappointing vehicles out there then.

[SVT666]

Well, this is more expensive than the equivalent Porsches. Something like a 1M falls behind (a bit) but it's a lot cheaper. Something like an R8 doesn't fall behind at all.

This was supposed to be a fantastic sports car and it falls short. The original E-Type destroyed everything in its class way back when. So to me, this car is a bit of a dissapointment. I am sure it's good, but I was expecting it'd be a car I'd be dying to get. And it isn't.

So now, a step behind a Porsche dynamically = a flop and disappointment?

Tough crowd.  There sure are a ton of disappointing vehicles out there then.

No shit.  "It should dominate everything like the E-Type did.  POS."  Give me a break.  Cars are so good today that it's extremely difficult to build a world beater anymore.  Only a couple companies are capable.  I love this car, and I would seriously look at one on the used market a few years from now.

[12,000 RPM]

Wow, how did you get a test drive so quickly?  Were you one of the winners for that test drive an F type promotion they were running?

Also, Chris Harris disagrees.  I'm more inclined to believe him

Chris Harris makes for good video but he's a shill. Hasn't found a Porsche w/anything not to like, even the Cayenne diesel

So now, a step behind a Porsche dynamically = a flop and disappointment?

Yes, when its marketed as a sports car, developed with an all new bespoke aluminum chassis, and priced higher than a Boxster w/a 6 cylinder engine.

Barring looks (and cars don't have to be expensive to look good), it has missed the mark. Since we are throwing out journalists we trust, here's my boy Tiff agreeing with me

Jaguar F-type vs Porsche 911 Cabriolet - Tiff Track Battle

as well as the big homie Steve Sutcliffe

Jaguar F-type vs Porsche 911 - autocar.co.uk

F-Type is gorgeous for sure and if that's your priority it's obv the right buy, but it's no Porsche killer, which is what they set out to do

[MrH]

Who said that was the goal?  And who said that if the car wasn't dynamically superior than a 911, it was a failure?

I think it's absolutely hilarious how you criticize Chris Harris for his take on cars you haven't even touched.  You talk like you've put miles upon miles on it and came to the conclusion it fell short.  I guarantee just about any of us would think the F-type is a dynamic masterpiece if we had chance to drive one.

You're taking nit picking from people who drive super cars for a living (when being compared to the benchmark of the class, mind you) and extrapolating that into it being a failure.

[MexicoCityM3]

So now, a step behind a Porsche dynamically = a flop and disappointment?

Tough crowd.  There sure are a ton of disappointing vehicles out there then.

No shit.  "It should dominate everything like the E-Type did.  POS."  Give me a break.  Cars are so good today that it's extremely difficult to build a world beater anymore.  Only a couple companies are capable.  I love this car, and I would seriously look at one on the used market a few years from now.

Like hyperbole much?

So to me, this car is a bit of a dissapointment. I am sure it's good, but I was expecting it'd be a car I'd be dying to get. And it isn't.

[12,000 RPM]

Who said that was the goal?  And who said that if the car wasn't dynamically superior than a 911, it was a failure?

I think it's absolutely hilarious how you criticize Chris Harris for his take on cars you haven't even touched.  You talk like you've put miles upon miles on it and came to the conclusion it fell short.  I guarantee just about any of us would think the F-type is a dynamic masterpiece if we had chance to drive one.

You're taking nit picking from people who drive super cars for a living (when being compared to the benchmark of the class, mind you) and extrapolating that into it being a failure.

Like I said Im sure the car is great

But it seems weird to put all this money into a new sports car so far off the mark from its class benchmarks... w/so many tools and so much money on hand. Especially with it being so close in price, size, and weight to the only other coupe in Jag's lineup

I just kinda dont see the point. This could have easily been the new XK. Maybe it should have been

[MrH]

Like I said Im sure the car is great

But it seems weird to put all this money into a new sports car so far off the mark from its class benchmarks... w/so many tools and so much money on hand. Especially with it being so close in price, size, and weight to the only other coupe in Jag's lineup

I just kinda dont see the point. This could have easily been the new XK. Maybe it should have been

Who said it was far off from the Porsche?  Sounds like it was pretty close to me.  And so much money at hand?  Any reason why you think Jaguar had an extraordinarily large amount of money to work with on this particular vehicle?

And now it went from falling short dynamically (because it isn't quite as sharp as the best in class), to overlapping too much with the XK?

I didn't hear anyone bitching and moaning about what a failure the XK was when it came out...

If we're going to use this rationale, the M6, Mercedes SL series, Z4, TT convertible, all failures.  Aston Martin represents the pinnacle of failure, because it's probably dead last in driving dynamics across the board compared to its competitors.

[12,000 RPM]

Who said it was far off from the Porsche?  Sounds like it was pretty close to me.  And so much money at hand?  Any reason why you think Jaguar had an extraordinarily large amount of money to work with on this particular vehicle?

They made a brand new chassis/platform for it?

And now it went from falling short dynamically (because it isn't quite as sharp as the best in class), to overlapping too much with the XK?

I said that in my first post in this thread.

I didn't hear anyone bitching and moaning about what a failure the XK was when it came out...

Because the XK is not a sports car?

If we're going to use this rationale, the M6, Mercedes SL series, Z4, TT convertible, all failures.  Aston Martin represents the pinnacle of failure, because it's probably dead last in driving dynamics across the board compared to its competitors.

None of these, barring the Z4 and the baby Aston, are sports cars or compete with the 911/Boxster. And the Z4 was a good $10K cheaper than a comparable Boxster.

[MrH]

So Jaguar just drew the short straw of being named Porsche's only competitor, and therefore, a failure for not being as sharp dynamically?

[Laconian]

It looks breathtaking and its abilities are still 200% beyond what most car owners demand.

[Raza]

The M6 is definitely a 911 competitor.

[Byteme]

No shit.  "It should dominate everything like the E-Type did.  POS."  Give me a break.  Cars are so good today that it's extremely difficult to build a world beater anymore.  Only a couple companies are capable.  I love this car, and I would seriously look at one on the used market a few years from now.

For the price of a new F-type I'd rather buy a well sorted Series II E-Type OTS.

[SVT666]

For the price of a new F-type I'd rather buy a well sorted Series II E-Type OTS.

That's a ridiculous statement.

[12,000 RPM]

The M6 is definitely a 911 competitor.

You could park a 911 in an M6

That's a ridiculous statement.

Why?

[SVT666]

Why?

Because you could say that about any new car versus a classic.  The F-Type isn't competing with the E-Type for sales.  It's like saying, "For the price of a LaFerrari I would rather get a GTO." 

[veeman]

why is this car so expensive?  are they trying to claim jaguar has as much cache as aston martin or maserati?  i'm sorry but that degree of prestige left jaguar about when they created the x-type.  Beautiful car yes.  I don't see people dropping that kind of coin for one. 

[Raza]

You could park a 911 in an M6

Bigger or not, they compete. 

[Raza]

why is this car so expensive?  are they trying to claim jaguar has as much cache as aston martin or maserati?  i'm sorry but that degree of prestige left jaguar about when they created the x-type.  Beautiful car yes.  I don't see people dropping that kind of coin for one.

Cheapest Aston Martin (V8 Vantage):  $118,650
Cheapest Maserati (GranTurismo):  $123,000
Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe:  $82,100 (cabriolet $93,700)

Jaguar F-Type:  $69,000

Where do Aston and Maserati come into the picture?

[SVT666]

Driving is about enjoyment.  It's about fun, and it's about putting a smile on my face.  Every video on YouTube of reviewers driving this car show the drivers with big grins and sometimes giggling.  To me, that says they didn't miss the mark...at least not by much.

[TurboDan]

I just checked the prices for Mexico. Outrageous.

Check a '14 model in three years. You'll be able to put it on your AMEX card and get some frequent flyer miles to boot. 

I'd need to see 10 more years of this before I changed my opinion of the brand. Love looking at them, but they won't get my money.

Eh, come on. There is NO modern car I would be hesitant to buy in 2013. There are no bad cars from major manufacturers at this point. Even if this is eventually ranked as the least reliable car in its class, it won't be particularly different from the most reliable in its class. The gap is insanely small these days. JLR, in particular, has come a very long way. I would not hesitate to buy another Land Rover, nor would I hesitate to buy this if I had the coin.

It looks breathtaking and its abilities are still 200% beyond what most car owners demand.

This will be an excellent deal on the used market in a few years due to stubborn ol' codgers who think Jags are still the same way they were in the '80s and '90s. It'll be to anyone's benefit who picks one up for a great price. 

[veeman]

Base model starts at 69 thousand.  Type S starts in the low 80s and v8 starts in the low 90s.  Are they competing with boxster buyers or carrera buyers?  They've priced it at least 10 thousand dollars too high.  The brand name is not worth that much anymore.  Everyone will say how beautiful this car is and very few will buy it.  In addition, unlike porsche and corvette, no one has any brand loyalty to jaguar.  Those that did are all dead.  Jaguar is trying to reintroduce itself to german luxury car buyers.  They will not be successful at these prices. 

[SVT666]

Base model starts at 69 thousand.  Type S starts in the low 80s and v8 starts in the low 90s.  Are they competing with boxster buyers or carrera buyers?  They've priced it at least 10 thousand dollars too high.  The brand name is not worth that much anymore.  Everyone will say how beautiful this car is and very few will buy it.  In addition, unlike porsche and corvette, no one has any brand loyalty to jaguar.  Those that did are all dead.  Jaguar is trying to reintroduce itself to german luxury car buyers.  They will not be successful at these prices.

Really?


Jaguar F-Type already halfway to being sold out
By Drew Johnson

The order books for the Jaguar F-Type have only been open for a few weeks, but the British automaker says the all-new sports car is already a rousing success.

"Half of the first year's production of the F-Type is already sold," Jaguar global brand director Adrian Hallmark told Automotive News. Hallmark added that anyone just ordering the F-Type will have to wait until at least the end of the year to take delivery.

Jaguar hasn't announced an official sales target for the F-Type, but the British automaker says the sports car will account for about 15-20 percent of its 60,000 annual sales. That means we can expect somewhere between 9,000 and 12,000 units to be sold this year.

Jaguar says most F-Types will end up in the United States, Great Britain and Germany. China will also be an important market for the drop top where, Jaguar says, "the average millionaire is 38 years old and likes to show wealth."

Offered in three different trim levels, F-Type pricing ranges from about $70,000 to $93,000. The car is currently offered exclusively as a convertible, but a coupe variant is expected to join the range sometime next year.

[MrH]

Trololololo   

[MX793]

It's great if they can meet their sales targets, but I would point out that Porsche sells over 8000 911s a year in the US alone.

Also, first year model sales of a hot new car are not indicative of how it will do in the long run.  Just look at the retro T-bird.  Sales were strong initially (though they fell a bit short of sales targets even in the first year), but it had no staying power.  Pretty much everybody who wanted one bought it in the first two years and sales dropped like a stone.  Wait and see how sales are doing 2-3 years from now.

[MrH]

It's great if they can meet their sales targets, but I would point out that Porsche sells over 8000 911s a year in the US alone.

Also, first year model sales of a hot new car are not indicative of how it will do in the long run.  Just look at the retro T-bird.  Sales were strong initially (though they fell a bit short of sales targets even in the first year), but it had no staying power.  Pretty much everybody who wanted one bought it in the first two years and sales dropped like a stone.  Wait and see how sales are doing 2-3 years from now.

Yeah, but the Boxster is only projected to sell 16k next year.  You can't point to 911 sales and say the f-type is a failure because it doesn't live up to it.

All projections I'm seeing for the F-type has it over 10k/year into 2020.