Car Chat

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think car companies should be illegal. Everyone now has to build their own cars. If you can't build one, you can take the bus, bitch.

[CaminoRacer]

Saw a similar clickbait BS article about that on Facebook today. Best to ignore it

[Eye of the Tiger]

Saw a similar clickbait BS article about that on Facebook today. Best to ignore it

But I seriously just thought of that idea. I dont even a facebook

[BimmerM3]

I don't see anything in the article that says this is an actual conversation between Ford and GM...it just sounds like a speculation or for-instance from the author...?

[Galaxy]

So the Cadillac CT4-V got the 2.4 I4 truck engine!? Is that not a replacement for the CTS-V? 

[MX793]

CT5 replaced the CTS.  I believe CT4 is the ATS replacement.  Still, both new V models are a downgrade from their predecessors in the engine department.  CT5 is only 350 hp from a turbo V6 instead of the 600+ hp V8 of the CTS, CT4 is 320 hp from the 2.7 I4 turbo vs the 460 hp turbo V6 in the ATS.  These new V models barely have more power than their predecessors' standard models.  Makes me wonder if there will be some higher trim than V introduced.

[12,000 RPM]

Supposedly V+ is coming

Either way somebody shit the bed. These aren't even as powerful as the old V-Sport models

What I'm really scared of is pricing. If these are priced like the old Vs.... RIP Cadillac. What engines are going to slot under these? Cadillac what are you doing man. We talked about this like 10 times

[AutobahnSHO]

Saw a similar clickbait BS article about that on Facebook today. Best to ignore it

Brilliant! Post an 'opinion piece' that's so crazy people read it. Cash in.

[MX793]

Supposedly V+ is coming

Either way somebody shit the bed. These aren't even as powerful as the old V-Sport models

What I'm really scared of is pricing. If these are priced like the old Vs.... RIP Cadillac. What engines are going to slot under these? Cadillac what are you doing man. We talked about this like 10 times

Base CT5 is a 2.0T.  Optional 335 hp 3.0L V6T (so the V is a lightly breathed on engine upgrade and a handling package).  I'd expect the 2.0T to also be used in the CT4, either in base trim or the mid-trim upgrade.  Maybe a NA 2.4L as a base engine?

[Eye of the Tiger]

What is this shit? Nothing should have a letter V unless it has a Corvette engine.

[12,000 RPM]

Base CT5 is a 2.0T.  Optional 335 hp 3.0L V6T (so the V is a lightly breathed on engine upgrade and a handling package).  I'd expect the 2.0T to also be used in the CT4, either in base trim or the mid-trim upgrade.  Maybe a NA 2.4L as a base engine?

For context the CTS V-Sport made 400HP

And they ditched the 2.5L as the base ATS engine

So they're taking a big step back just as much of the competition has taken a huge step forward. Like... the CT4 V will have a hard time getting away from a base Giulia

[MX793]

For context the CTS V-Sport made 400HP

And they ditched the 2.5L as the base ATS engine

So they're taking a big step back just as much of the competition has taken a huge step forward. Like... the CT4 V will have a hard time getting away from a base Giulia

Yeah, they definitely too a step backwards with the V branding.  Doesn't even live up to the old V-sport line.  Although, as memory serves, there was never a V-sport trim of the ATS.  This feels kind of like what Audi did with their S-series of cars.  RS models were the more hardcore, performance-oriented trims and the S models were basically a higher level trim or sport package applied to the regular line.

Feels like these new models are generally a step down in powertrain across the board.  The old CTS base engine was a 268 hp 2.0T, the CT5 is 238 hp.  The upgrade 3.0T engine is a step above the old 3.6 overall (similar power, much more torque).  The new "V" model is way weaker than even the old V-sport.  No idea what the base engine on the CT4 will be, but I doubt it will be any punchier than the CT5, so best case is a 238 hp 2.0T.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see either a larger NA 4-banger or a smaller turbo motor (1.6T maybe) in the 180-ish HP range as the base engine and then the ~240 hp 2.0T as the upgrade engine.

[FoMoJo]

So, what the heck is this?   The Internet Is Losing Its Mind Over The Giant Wheels on This Lifted Mercedes SLK

[giant_mtb]

If I didn't see the video and that was the only picture of it right there, I might've said it was fake news.

[AutobahnSHO]

So, what the heck is this?   The Internet Is Losing Its Mind Over The Giant Wheels on This Lifted Mercedes SLK

Saw a crown vic today with "28s" (cuz it was painted) that was riding like there was no suspension at all. Every little bump was transmitted to the entire body.

[veeman]

In 2018 Cadillac sold @ 11 thousand CTS and 1300 of those were CTS-V.  In 2018 MB-E class sold @ 45 thousand and I think roughly 10% are AMG versions.  Every year Mercedes sells more and more AMG versions of their cars by expanding the AMG line up.  For the E class you have the AMG E 53 which retails for around 72 thousand versus the AMG E 63 S which retails for around 106 thousand.  The MB C class has 3 AMG variants with the entry level one being the AMG C 43.

Bottom line is that all AMG variants are cash cows.  Expand the AMG line up and you get more people to get that AMG lettering on their Mercedes. 

Cadillac is just expanding their CTS V line up to include cheaper (but still cash cow) versions and hopefully get more people to pay for the CTS V lettering on their cars.

It's a smart move I think but it's like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

In 2018 Cadillac sold @ 11 thousand CTS and 1300 of those were CTS-V.  In 2018 MB-E class sold @ 45 thousand and I think roughly 10% are AMG versions.  Every year Mercedes sells more and more AMG versions of their cars by expanding the AMG line up.  For the E class you have the AMG E 53 which retails for around 72 thousand versus the AMG E 63 S which retails for around 106 thousand.  The MB C class has 3 AMG variants with the entry level one being the AMG C 43.

Bottom line is that all AMG variants are cash cows.  Expand the AMG line up and you get more people to get that AMG lettering on their Mercedes. 

Cadillac is just expanding their CTS V line up to include cheaper (but still cash cow) versions and hopefully get more people to pay for the CTS V lettering on their cars.

It's a smart move I think but it's like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

It's only smart until more people realize the V is watered down bullshit.

[2o6]

They had "v sport".

[veeman]

Disclaimer: I'm making the following numbers up.

Cadillac board meeting:

Chief: so how come Mercedes and BMW continue to kick our ass in car sales?

Minion: well there's a number of factors...

Chief:  yada yada yada, I know the reasons.  What I'm really asking is what can we do to increase our car sales?

Minion: we have to invest in...

Chief: listen guys/gals.  Americans don't buy cars.  They buy SUVs.  Whatever real money we invest, it's going to the Cadillac SUVs.  Did you see the new Lincoln Navigator interior?  What I'm asking is what can we do to increase our sedan sales without investing any real money?

Minions: (silence)

Chief: how much we make per CTS sale?

Minion: about 5 grand.

Chief: why so little?  It's a luxury car.

Minion: they only sell with a lot of incentives.

Chief:  what about the V version.  How much we make on those?

Minion:  about 12 grand.

Chief:  what percentage of CTS sales are V sales?

Minion: 10%

Chief:  we need to sell more Vs.  A lot more Vs.

Minion:  Vs are much more expensive.  They're really track sports cars disguised as a sedan.  They have Corvette parts.

Chief:  well we need more sales.  More profit per sale too. 

Minion:  we can make different model Vs.  Thats what AMG does.

Chief:  I would give my right leg to get AMG sales.  My neighbor has two of them. 

Minion:  we can make a new V which is slightly better than a base CTS and charge 7 or 8 thousand more for than a base CTS, and also keep the old V but call it V S or V sport or something like that.  Get more people in the V fold.

Chief:  i like it.  People, let's get this done.  I'm meeting with Barra tomorrow and anything to soften her grip on my testicles is a good thing.

Minion:  won't this water down what V stands for?  We could lose brand equity.

Chief:  it's all about the numbers.  I hate to break this to you but if we don't get more profitable on our cars, we're going to go where Ford already has gone.  Just get rid of them.  That would be a real shame because I quite like our cars.  We just need to be smarter about marketing and squeezing more sales, more profit, etc.  It's what the Germans do.  BMW will put an M on anything, even their turds, because they make money doing that.  Porsche puts an S on everything.  People like letters which signify what they have is special.  It's a psychological thing.  We need more Vs and we need them at a cheaper price point.

(Meeting adjourned)

One minion whispering to another minion:  we're so fucked.  This is not going to go down well in the automotive press.

The other minion whispering back:  who cares.  It's like moving chairs on the Titanic.  My wife is threatening to divorce me if I don't buy her a Tesla. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

They had "v sport".

Confusing marketing bullshit. Pick a different letter.

If U want your base model CTS to look like the really cool, top level, high performance CTS-V, but U don't want to pay for it and U're scared of driving, then we have the CTS for U! Introducing the new CTS-U! It's got the same underwhelming stock drivetrain and chassis as the base model, but with a useless body kit that is sure to hang up on a curb, extra large chrome badges to polish, a premium ipad stereo thing so you don't have to listen to that sorry engine, and unnecessarily large wheels because the brakes are still the same except the calipers are now painted a bright colour! CTS-U ... it's what U really want! Cadillac ... Cadillac ... Cadillac style.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Disclaimer: I'm making the following numbers up.

Cadillac board meeting:

Chief: so how come Mercedes and BMW continue to kick our ass in car sales?

Minion: well there's a number of factors...

Chief:  yada yada yada, I know the reasons.  What I'm really asking is what can we do to increase our car sales?

Minion: we have to invest in...

Chief: listen guys/gals.  Americans don't buy cars.  They buy SUVs.  Whatever real money we invest, it's going to the Cadillac SUVs.  Did you see the new Lincoln Navigator interior?  What I'm asking is what can we do to increase our sedan sales without investing any real money?

Minions: (silence)

Chief: how much we make per CTS sale?

Minion: about 5 grand.

Chief: why so little?  It's a luxury car.

Minion: they only sell with a lot of incentives.

Chief:  what about the V version.  How much we make on those?

Minion:  about 12 grand.

Chief:  what percentage of CTS sales are V sales?

Minion: 10%

Chief:  we need to sell more Vs.  A lot more Vs.

Minion:  Vs are much more expensive.  They're really track sports cars disguised as a sedan.  They have Corvette parts.

Chief:  well we need more sales.  More profit per sale too. 

Minion:  we can make different model Vs.  Thats what AMG does.

Chief:  I would give my right leg to get AMG sales.  My neighbor has two of them. 

Minion:  we can make a new V which is slightly better than a base CTS and charge 7 or 8 thousand more for than a base CTS, and also keep the old V but call it V S or V sport or something like that.  Get more people in the V fold.

Chief:  i like it.  People, let's get this done.  I'm meeting with Barra tomorrow and anything to soften her grip on my testicles is a good thing.

Minion:  won't this water down what V stands for?  We could lose brand equity.

Chief:  it's all about the numbers.  I hate to break this to you but if we don't get more profitable on our cars, we're going to go where Ford already has gone.  Just get rid of them.  That would be a real shame because I quite like our cars.  We just need to be smarter about marketing and squeezing more sales, more profit, etc.  It's what the Germans do.  BMW will put an M on anything, even their turds, because they make money doing that.  Porsche puts an S on everything.  People like letters which signify what they have is special.  It's a psychological thing.  We need more Vs and we need them at a cheaper price point.

(Meeting adjourned)

One minion whispering to another minion:  we're so fucked.  This is not going to go down well in the automotive press.

The other minion whispering back:  who cares.  It's like moving chairs on the Titanic.  My wife is threatening to divorce me if I don't buy her a Tesla.

Tell me again how to find my assigned deck chair on the Titanic.

[veeman]

Well I'm sitting next to these guys 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8wwtbQXTugo

[MX793]

Disclaimer: I'm making the following numbers up.

Cadillac board meeting:

Chief: so how come Mercedes and BMW continue to kick our ass in car sales?

Minion: well there's a number of factors...

Chief:  yada yada yada, I know the reasons.  What I'm really asking is what can we do to increase our car sales?

Minion: we have to invest in...

Chief: listen guys/gals.  Americans don't buy cars.  They buy SUVs.  Whatever real money we invest, it's going to the Cadillac SUVs.  Did you see the new Lincoln Navigator interior?  What I'm asking is what can we do to increase our sedan sales without investing any real money?

Minions: (silence)

Chief: how much we make per CTS sale?

Minion: about 5 grand.

Chief: why so little?  It's a luxury car.

Minion: they only sell with a lot of incentives.

Chief:  what about the V version.  How much we make on those?

Minion:  about 12 grand.

Chief:  what percentage of CTS sales are V sales?

Minion: 10%

Chief:  we need to sell more Vs.  A lot more Vs.

Minion:  Vs are much more expensive.  They're really track sports cars disguised as a sedan.  They have Corvette parts.

Chief:  well we need more sales.  More profit per sale too. 

Minion:  we can make different model Vs.  Thats what AMG does.

Chief:  I would give my right leg to get AMG sales.  My neighbor has two of them. 

Minion:  we can make a new V which is slightly better than a base CTS and charge 7 or 8 thousand more for than a base CTS, and also keep the old V but call it V S or V sport or something like that.  Get more people in the V fold.

Chief:  i like it.  People, let's get this done.  I'm meeting with Barra tomorrow and anything to soften her grip on my testicles is a good thing.

Minion:  won't this water down what V stands for?  We could lose brand equity.

Chief:  it's all about the numbers.  I hate to break this to you but if we don't get more profitable on our cars, we're going to go where Ford already has gone.  Just get rid of them.  That would be a real shame because I quite like our cars.  We just need to be smarter about marketing and squeezing more sales, more profit, etc.  It's what the Germans do.  BMW will put an M on anything, even their turds, because they make money doing that.  Porsche puts an S on everything.  People like letters which signify what they have is special.  It's a psychological thing.  We need more Vs and we need them at a cheaper price point.

(Meeting adjourned)

One minion whispering to another minion:  we're so fucked.  This is not going to go down well in the automotive press.

The other minion whispering back:  who cares.  It's like moving chairs on the Titanic.  My wife is threatening to divorce me if I don't buy her a Tesla. 

Caddy already had the "V Sport" line, which was a higher tier (performance and price) than the standard line but not full blown V.  Similar to the BMW M-sport models, the Audi S series, and the M-B Mercedes-AMG (formerly AMG Sport) series of cars.  These new Caddy models should have been V-Sport models.  Even then, the CT5 "V" is a big step backwards from the CTS V-sport, but it's more palatable than calling it the full blown V model.  What Caddy has done would be the same as BMW ditching the M3 and renaming the 340i the "M3".

[2o6]

V label aside, both of those cars look whack.

[FoMoJo]

V label aside, both of those cars look whack.

Is whack good or bad?  Never liked the style myself.

[shp4man]

So Cadillac is sinking? I don't really keep up with that sort of thing. Why can't they build a cutting edge, dependable, beautiful, powerful, smooth riding, quiet as a whisper, quality vehicle like they used to?
Fucking corporate bean counter, trend following morons that run it?

[Eye of the Tiger]

So Cadillac is sinking? I don't really keep up with that sort of thing. Why can't they build a cutting edge, dependable, beautiful, powerful, smooth riding, quiet as a whisper, quality vehicle like they used to?
Fucking corporate bean counter, trend following morons that run it?

"Like they used to"



what an utter pile of crap

[CaminoRacer]

CT4 and CT5 look great IMO

[shp4man]

"Like they used to"



what an utter pile of crap

Yep, that's ^^^ a POS of the highest magnitude. Agreed, and one of the reasons their numbers suck. And below, real Caddy..



I don't want them to build that '64^^^ again. Just a modern version with the same attributes.

[12,000 RPM]

Yep, that's ^^^ a POS of the highest magnitude. Agreed, and one of the reasons their numbers suck. And below, real Caddy..



I don't want them to build that '64^^^ again. Just a modern version with the same attributes.

Agreed. Market needs more real luxury cars instead of BMW clones.