PSA to re-enter North America with DS brand?

[Madman]

DS is already marketed in China as a distinct brand, separate from Citroën.  Now PSA wants to take the DS brand global.  And that apparently includes North America.

Will Chinese money be enough to establish an unknown brand in the hyper-competitive US market?


http://europe.autonews.com/article/20141004/COPY/310049994/psa-plots-u-s-re-entry-under-ds-brand?cciid=internal-aneinside-mostright

[12,000 RPM]

Waste of money, if they can't make anything as striking as the SM/DS or groundbreaking as the 2CV. The cars will have to make up for the non-existent dealership network and French car reputation in the US.

[hotrodalex]

Why are companies so obsessed with making new brands for no reason

[AutobahnSHO]

Waste of money, if they can't make anything as striking as the SM/DS or groundbreaking as the 2CV. The cars will have to make up for the non-existent dealership network and French car reputation in the US.

Unless Tesla and they can team up and start selling cars direct to consumers.....

[2o6]

Why are companies so obsessed with making new brands for no reason

To be fair, the DS sub-line is actually selling pretty well.

Waste of money, if they can't make anything as striking as the SM/DS or groundbreaking as the 2CV. The cars will have to make up for the non-existent dealership network and French car reputation in the US.

They have a bigger focus on design, which I think may be the trick that the USA is looking for.

[93JC]

Meh. Citroen's engines are totally inadequate for the North American market. They'd get slaughtered.

[2o6]

Meh. Citroen's engines are totally inadequate for the North American market. They'd get slaughtered.

Haven't they done a lot a shit though? I know they have a super power dense 1.6T

[12,000 RPM]

They have a bigger focus on design, which I think may be the trick that the USA is looking for.

The cars are a little "quirky", but they don't have the eye-popping jaw dropping "i didnt kno i needed this in my life" impact of Citroen's pre-Peugeot cars.

The first company to capture what Audi and BMW tried (and failed) to capture with their A7/4GC respectively, but for American tastes, will have a monster hit. Mainstream and even luxury car design is at a real low right now and needs to be shaken up at a fundamental level.

[2o6]

The cars are a little "quirky", but they don't have the eye-popping jaw dropping "i didnt kno i needed this in my life" impact of Citroen's pre-Peugeot cars.

The first company to capture what Audi and BMW tried (and failed) to capture with their A7/4GC respectively, but for American tastes, will have a monster hit. Mainstream and even luxury car design is at a real low right now and needs to be shaken up at a fundamental level.

I think Citroen's DS line could work as an altenative to Acura or Buick. It's not strong enough to go for BMW Audi, but it was never meant to do that.

Citroen has a really strong emphesis ondesign, I mean, these interiors are probably some of the most stylish things on the market

DS5

[12,000 RPM]

That interior is pretty nice, but they need exteriors to match to rope people in.

The key to success in today's market is positive differentiation... if people see a car and say 'wat is that i want one' it will be a success.

[AutobahnSHO]

That interior is pretty nice, but they need exteriors to match to rope people in.

The key to success in today's market is positive differentiation... if people see a car and say 'wat is that i want one' it will be a success.

Is that the only reason Fiats are selling?.

[12,000 RPM]

Is that the only reason Fiats are selling?.

Thats not an unfair assessment. There's nothing practical a 500 does better than a Fit/Fiesta etc. But it is an escape from the mundane without being completely useless. Thats the balance new entries into any market here have to strike.

[2o6]

That interior is pretty nice, but they need exteriors to match to rope people in.

The key to success in today's market is positive differentiation... if people see a car and say 'wat is that i want one' it will be a success.

I would think they do





The problem is that the cars aren't big enough. The DS5 is only as big as a Focus, DS6 WR is only as big as a GLK/Q3, and they don't really make any executive cars anymore.

[Raza]

I would think they do





The problem is that the cars aren't big enough. The DS5 is only as big as a Focus, DS6 WR is only as big as a GLK/Q3, and they don't really make any executive cars anymore.

I agree, the DS line looks awesome.

[cawimmer430]

 

[cawimmer430]

And for those who think that these cars are "underpowered"...

DS3 Racing...

[12,000 RPM]

Wimmer let it go.

[Yawn]

Specific US markets will do well.. People in California would definitely buy this... I think this would probably sell as well as FIAT with good marketing.

[Galaxy]

I am guessing that this...




... is what they are developing for the US market.

[12,000 RPM]

Oooo thats gonna bomb.

When are manufacturers gonna realize... luxury buyers want Kammback.

[cawimmer430]

Wimmer let it go.

???

[12,000 RPM]

???

"And for those who think that these cars are "underpowered"..."

Nobody said anything about power or performance here

[cawimmer430]

"And for those who think that these cars are "underpowered"..."

Nobody said anything about power or performance here

[2o6]

He wasn't talking about power. He's probably talking about refinement and technology.


IIRC, aside from the 1.6T and the smaller 1.0T and 1.2T, I don't think Peugeot has any larger engines that are worth a damn. Everything else in their lineup is old as shit.

[cawimmer430]

He wasn't talking about power. He's probably talking about refinement and technology.


IIRC, aside from the 1.6T and the smaller 1.0T and 1.2T, I don't think Peugeot has any larger engines that are worth a damn. Everything else in their lineup is old as shit.

Peugeot offers only 4-cylinders in their 508 sedan/wagon, the most powerful of which has 180-horsepower.

Citroen has a gasoline 3.0 V6 with 211-horsepower and two diesel V6s - a 2.7 and 3.0 V6 with 204- and 240-horsepower respectively.

Completely underpowered for America it seems. 

[2o6]

Peugeot offers only 4-cylinders in their 508 sedan/wagon, the most powerful of which has 180-horsepower.

Citroen has a gasoline 3.0 V6 with 211-horsepower and two diesel V6s - a 2.7 and 3.0 V6 with 204- and 240-horsepower respectively.

Completely underpowered for America it seems. 

"Underpowered" isn't the problem. You are mistaking power with technology and refinement. 211HP (on European higher-octane gas, mind you. US  HP would probably be closer to 200HP, which would have been cutting edge back in 1996. In fact, the 1998 Accord I sold had a 3.0L V6 with 200HP). GM's 3.0L V6 makes at least 255HP and up to 280HP depending on the application. And the 3.0L is garbage; the 3.6L is more economical in most applications with a more usable power curve. The DI version of the 3.6L makes a whopping 302 HP. 211HP, most non turbo 4CYL's can make that. (GM's 2.5L can)

[2o6]

I mean fuck, until the latest 208 and 308, PSA was still using essentially a very heavily revised platform from the Citroen ZX.


PSA's got some money issues.

[12,000 RPM]

I imagine those engines are old as fuck too, as inefficient as they are, again setting them back refinement wise. And unlike Nissan/Honda/Toyota, PSA does not have the development budget or talent to keep old engines fresh. The stats show it.

The fact that France is pretty much the only place people seriously still buy PSA cars is telling. The cars suck, the company sucks. The death clock is ticking.

[Raza]

I imagine those engines are old as fuck too, as inefficient as they are, again setting them back refinement wise. And unlike Nissan/Honda/Toyota, PSA does not have the development budget or talent to keep old engines fresh. The stats show it.

The fact that France is pretty much the only place people seriously still buy PSA cars is telling. The cars suck, the company sucks. The death clock is ticking.

Eh, they could always partner with another company for engines.  That's no big deal.  As I recall, the last Mini used a Peugeot engine that was also shared with another car.  Car companies seem to collaborate a lot these days.

[cawimmer430]

"Underpowered" isn't the problem. You are mistaking power with technology and refinement. 211HP (on European higher-octane gas, mind you. US  HP would probably be closer to 200HP, which would have been cutting edge back in 1996. In fact, the 1998 Accord I sold had a 3.0L V6 with 200HP). GM's 3.0L V6 makes at least 255HP and up to 280HP depending on the application. And the 3.0L is garbage; the 3.6L is more economical in most applications with a more usable power curve. The DI version of the 3.6L makes a whopping 302 HP. 211HP, most non turbo 4CYL's can make that. (GM's 2.5L can)

The problem is that there's no need or demand for more powerful engines for these cars in Europe or other markets where they are sold. Hardly anyone buys the V6 versions of the Citroen C5 because the 4-cylinders are adequate. There's really no incentive to develop, tune and/or lease a more powerful V6 from another manufacturer.

Volkswagen offers a 3.6 FSI V6 Passat and nobody, literally nobody, buys them. It's pretty much the same deal with all other mainstream brands in Europe.

I agree that PSA needs to offer more powerful and perhaps newer engines for North America. At the same time, from an everyday performance perspective their current engines are more than adequate. I seriously doubt that the average American will think that a 211-horsepower V6 C5 is "underpowered".