Ford to invest $5 billion in Lincoln

[Mustangfan2003]

It includes rwd cars in the future.  It seems like a pretty big risk to me but if they want the brand to move forward they need to do this.  About 10 years too late. 

http://wot.motortrend.com/1410_ford_to_rejuvenate_lincoln_with_5_billion_investment_new_platform.html

[SVT666]

It includes rwd cars in the future.  It seems like a pretty big risk to me but if they want the brand to move forward they need to do this.  About 10 years too late. 

http://wot.motortrend.com/1410_ford_to_rejuvenate_lincoln_with_5_billion_investment_new_platform.html

15 years

[280Z Turbo]

They should make a Tesla S competitor. It would be a great way to distinguish themselves.

[Mustangfan2003]

That would be neat since Cadillac fucked up with the ELR. 

[280Z Turbo]

That would be neat since Cadillac fucked up with the ELR. 

Well, you can't take a $34,000 car, double the price, take away 2 doors, and expect good things to happen.

[Laconian]

Don't forget the ridiculous trunk.

[Mustangfan2003]

I do kinda wonder where Lincoln could be if they never bothered buying Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover, and Aston Martin. 

[Submariner]

They should have kept Jaguar and mirrored history a bit closer with regards to Lincoln...

[Rich]

Dear Engineerds,

How can an automaker develop a platform that is FWD and RWD? 

Thank you,

Rich

[Soup DeVille]

Dear Engineerds,

How can an automaker develop a platform that is FWD and RWD? 

Thank you,

Rich

Longitudinal engines, mang.

[12,000 RPM]

[MX793]

The RWD Chrysler LX platform actually evolved and borrowed from the FWD LH platform, as memory serves.  LH used longitudinally mounted engines.

[12,000 RPM]

Ford doesnt have any modern longitudinal platforms that would be appropriate. Luxury segment won't stand for Mustang's tiny rear seat accommodations in something 5 series sized.

They would do better to go all in on style. Just take their basic platforms and make em look sexier. They dont have hybrid tech and luxury segment doesnt care about RWD or 10/10ths dynamics. People are starving for style though.

[MX793]

Ford doesnt have any modern longitudinal platforms that would be appropriate. Luxury segment won't stand for Mustang's tiny rear seat accommodations in something 5 series sized.

[SVT666]

Ford doesnt have any modern longitudinal platforms that would be appropriate. Luxury segment won't stand for Mustang's tiny rear seat accommodations in something 5 series sized.

They would do better to go all in on style. Just take their basic platforms and make em look sexier. They dont have hybrid tech and luxury segment doesnt care about RWD or 10/10ths dynamics. People are starving for style though.

The new MKZ is doing really well.  I see all kinds of them on the road, and it's a great looking car.

[GoCougs]

Huh? The current 5er is a much bigger car than the Mustang.

[12,000 RPM]

Huh? The current 5er is a much bigger car than the Mustang.

Not really

5 is 5" longer, 3" taller, but 2" narrower. 5 has a 10" longer wheelbase which obviously helps... but the 4 coupe has a ~4" longer wheelbase despite being half a foot shorter. 4 has more leg room and rear head room too. Mustang is a packaging/space efficiency disaster (Im sure the Camaro is no different)... its platform would be no good for luxury sedans

[2o6]

Not really

5 is 5" longer, 3" taller, but 2" narrower. 5 has a 10" longer wheelbase which obviously helps... but the 4 coupe has a ~4" longer wheelbase despite being half a foot shorter. 4 has more leg room and rear head room too. Mustang is a packaging/space efficiency disaster (Im sure the Camaro is no different)... its platform would be no good for luxury sedans

Styling dictates packaging a lot on these cars. And besides, luxury cars aren't packaged all that well, either. The 5-series isn't exactly brimming with an extreme interior room.

[MX793]

Not really

5 is 5" longer, 3" taller, but 2" narrower. 5 has a 10" longer wheelbase which obviously helps... but the 4 coupe has a ~4" longer wheelbase despite being half a foot shorter. 4 has more leg room and rear head room too. Mustang is a packaging/space efficiency disaster (Im sure the Camaro is no different)... its platform would be no good for luxury sedans

So what's to stop Ford from stretching the wheelbase?  The DEW98 cars were ~5" longer than the S197 and had ~7.5" more wheelbase.  While not exactly the same platform, the floorpans were related designs.  I've read S550 also uses a DEW98 derived floorpan.  And the retro T-bird, which was DEW98 based, had very similar length and wheelbase to both S197 and S550.

[12,000 RPM]

So what's to stop Ford from stretching the wheelbase?  The DEW98 cars were ~5" longer than the S197 and had ~7.5" more wheelbase.  While not exactly the same platform, the floorpans were related designs.  I've read S550 also uses a DEW98 derived floorpan.  And the retro T-bird, which was DEW98 based, had very similar length and wheelbase to both S197 and S550.

I'm surprised they didn't for this Mustang... the Camaro has a 5" longer wheelbase (but has even less interior room )...

But the Mustang seems to have a lot of overhang. If that is an unavoidable consequence of the S550 platform, a Lincoln derivative will be much bigger than any of its competitors in its respective classes, putting it at an immediate disadvantage in this fuel-economy driven hypercompetitive market. So I stand by my statement- I don't think the S550 platform is what Lincoln should bet its resurgence on. I don't think they need a RWD platform at all, actually... the market has moved on from the mindstate of stuff like RWD mattering in a luxury car.

[2o6]

Styling dictates packaging on cars like these.



The G8/Caprice also is Zeta based, but are far roomier inside than the Camaro.

[MX793]

I'm surprised they didn't for this Mustang... the Camaro has a 5" longer wheelbase (but has even less interior room )...

But the Mustang seems to have a lot of overhang. If that is an unavoidable consequence of the S550 platform, a Lincoln derivative will be much bigger than any of its competitors in its respective classes, putting it at an immediate disadvantage in this fuel-economy driven hypercompetitive market. So I stand by my statement- I don't think the S550 platform is what Lincoln should bet its resurgence on. I don't think they need a RWD platform at all, actually... the market has moved on from the mindstate of stuff like RWD mattering in a luxury car.

The wheelbase and overhangs aren't necessarily inherent to the platform.  They are products of styling decisions.  The Malibu and Impala are on the same platform.  The Impala is the LWB version of Epsilon II.  It has 3.3" more wheelbase, but 10" more overall length (so half a foot more combined overhang).  Ford could have trimmed the overhangs, but that would have come at the expense of the car's proportions, as well as trunk volume (in the case of rear overhang).  The Mustang is space inefficient because space efficiency isn't a priority with this type of car.  It's not a 2-door sedan like the 4-series.  It's not as cab-forward as the BMW and it's roofline is much faster, the latter being purely aesthetic.

It's like comparing a 3rd gen Prelude to a 3rd gen Accord coupe.  Wheelbase is only ~1" less on the Prelude, but it's several inches shorter thanks to shorter overhangs.  The Prelude is also far less roomy inside.  One had the body of the 2-door version of a sedan, the other had a more sporting 2+2 design and proportions.  And those two are on related platforms.

The Lincoln LS (and current Jag XF) was the same footprint as the current 5er, but with a slightly shorter wheelbase.  Rear seat space is/was class appropriate/competitive.  The Retro-Bird was the same approximate footprint and wheelbase as the Mustang, and didn't even have a rear seat.  You can't base what a platform can or can't do, interior space-wise, on one car built for a market segment that generally doesn't give a damn about space efficiency.

[2o6]

The wheelbase and overhangs aren't necessarily inherent to the platform.  They are products of styling decisions.  The Malibu and Impala are on the same platform.  The Impala is the LWB version of Sigma II.  It has 3.3" more wheelbase, but 10" more overall length (so half a foot more combined overhang).  Ford could have trimmed the overhangs, but that would have come at the expense of the car's proportions, as well as trunk volume (in the case of rear overhang).  The Mustang is space inefficient because space efficiency isn't a priority with this type of car.  It's not a 2-door sedan like the 4-series.  It's not as cab-forward as the BMW and it's roofline is much faster, the latter being purely aesthetic.

It's like comparing a 3rd gen Prelude to a 3rd gen Accord coupe.  Wheelbase is only ~1" less on the Prelude, but it's several inches shorter thanks to shorter overhangs.  The Prelude is also far less roomy inside.  One had the body of the 2-door version of a sedan, the other had a more sporting 2+2 design and proportions.  And those two are on related platforms.

The Lincoln LS (and current Jag XF) was the same footprint as the current 5er, but with a slightly shorter wheelbase.  Rear seat space is/was class appropriate/competitive.  The Retro-Bird was the same approximate footprint and wheelbase as the Mustang, and didn't even have a rear seat.  You can't base what a platform can or can't do, interior space-wise, on one car built for a market segment that generally doesn't give a damn about space efficiency.

You mean Epsilon. Sigma is CTS

[Atomic]

A great share and a good thing for Lincoln. This is a major turn around from Ford's initial plan announced easily this year. It makes perfect sense.

[ifcar]

They would do better to go all in on style. Just take their basic platforms and make em look sexier. They dont have hybrid tech and luxury segment doesnt care about RWD or 10/10ths dynamics. People are starving for style though.

There is MKZ Hybrid; it's already in its second generation.

[thewizard16]

They're probably just going to give half of it to Matthew McConaughey to keep pushing their mildly appealing cars.

[Madman]

If Ford had Kept either Jaguar or Volvo, there would be no need to dump $5 Billion into a lost cause like Lincoln.

[GoCougs]

Not really

5 is 5" longer, 3" taller, but 2" narrower. 5 has a 10" longer wheelbase which obviously helps... but the 4 coupe has a ~4" longer wheelbase despite being half a foot shorter. 4 has more leg room and rear head room too. Mustang is a packaging/space efficiency disaster (Im sure the Camaro is no different)... its platform would be no good for luxury sedans

Which means the 5er is a much bigger car than the Mustang.

[ifcar]

If Ford had Kept either Jaguar or Volvo, there would be no need to dump $5 Billion into a lost cause like Lincoln.

Right, Ford would be spreading that money around among multiple lost causes.

[Rich]

Why would they use the same floorpan for a FWD car as a RWD car, which would leave a large central tunnel digging in on legroom and hip room?  Unless by platform they mean components like engine, wiring, suspension, and brakes, leaving out the structure.