The Official Sixth Gen Camaro Thread!

[SVT666]

I personally think power on the GT is more than enough, though they'll need a little more if they want to outrun the SS.  As to handling, there's more to it than outright grip.  Lateral grip doesn't take into account directional transitions and composure, which is an area where the Camaro is reportedly better.

And I guarantee that on the street, these cars can never get pushed hard enough to really notice a difference.  Leave supercar performance to the Shelby GT350 and GT500 and Z28, and leave the GT and SS as everyman V8 performance cars.  The Mustang and Camaro are world beaters in many ways, but they don't need to be.  I like how the Fox body Stangs were a handful and they only had 225 hp.  The charm of the Mustang and Camaro used to be that their chassis were overwhelmed by the engines, but now they need damn near 500 hp just to be in the chassis's sweet spot.  I think they lost their focus.  They were never supposed to be world beating sports cars.  They were supposed to be muscle cars.

[Laconian]

Too much power.  I want to be able to enjoy winding it out between shifts at full throttle without hitting the speed limit in 4 seconds.  IT's one reason I love the little guy I drive now.  Just getting up to the speed limit, I get time to enjoy the sound and feel of winding it out.  It's not over in a blink of an eye.

I feel the same way about my G37. It makes a great sound when it's accelerating hard, but I can't do it for more than just a few seconds at a time. :\

[MrH]

ND Miata.  Always the answer.

[Payman]

ND Miata.  Always the answer.

Yes, but ALL Miatas. I loved revving my 116 hp NA through the gears before reaching illegal speeds.

[CaminoRacer]

I feel the same way about my G37. It makes a great sound when it's accelerating hard, but I can't do it for more than just a few seconds at a time. :\

Part of that is also the gearing. Bazillion speed auto gear boxes are one of the main reasons that 0-60 times are decreasing like crazy.

[12,000 RPM]

I think both cars are getting too expensive and too capable. The GT and SS are no longer affordable for most people and their performance levels are way beyond anything most people could ever come close to achieving even on a track. Since when is 435 hp and 1g cornering not enough?

And I guarantee that on the street, these cars can never get pushed hard enough to really notice a difference.  Leave supercar performance to the Shelby GT350 and GT500 and Z28, and leave the GT and SS as everyman V8 performance cars.  The Mustang and Camaro are world beaters in many ways, but they don't need to be.  I like how the Fox body Stangs were a handful and they only had 225 hp.  The charm of the Mustang and Camaro used to be that their chassis were overwhelmed by the engines, but now they need damn near 500 hp just to be in the chassis's sweet spot.  I think they lost their focus.  They were never supposed to be world beating sports cars.  They were supposed to be muscle cars.

No swipes, no swipes, but when I said this about the F-Type R you said I was nuts. I am OK with being nuts but I was on the money with the V8 F-Type. It is overkill, along with any other 400+ HP street car.

Unfortunately dudes like Cougs need to have the fastest and the baddest so the prospect of a pony car with less performance can only come from the bitch slap of the govt. Next Camaro SS will have 500HP, next will prob have 550 etc etc.

[CaminoRacer]

If your HP number starts with a 4, I don't consider it overkill. In the 500s, yes. 600+ definitely is and is even getting to be overkill on a track (would be better to lose weight than gain HP at that point)

[SVT666]

No swipes, no swipes, but when I said this about the F-Type R you said I was nuts. I am OK with being nuts but I was on the money with the V8 F-Type. It is overkill, along with any other 400+ HP street car.

Unfortunately dudes like Cougs need to have the fastest and the baddest so the prospect of a pony car with less performance can only come from the bitch slap of the govt. Next Camaro SS will have 500HP, next will prob have 550 etc etc.

F-Type R weighs 4100 lbs and has AWD.  It's also $112K and expected to compete with the Porsche 911.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

And I guarantee that on the street, these cars can never get pushed hard enough to really notice a difference.  Leave supercar performance to the Shelby GT350 and GT500 and Z28, and leave the GT and SS as everyman V8 performance cars. The Mustang and Camaro are world beaters in many ways, but they don't need to be.  I like how the Fox body Stangs were a handful and they only had 225 hp. The charm of the Mustang and Camaro used to be that their chassis were overwhelmed by the engines, but now they need damn near 500 hp just to be in the chassis's sweet spot.  I think they lost their focus.  They were never supposed to be world beating sports cars.  They were supposed to be muscle cars.

I've owned both and I'm happy with the progress. Especially in a day and age where mainstream sedans have 250-300hp.......

[12,000 RPM]

F-Type R weighs 4100 lbs and has AWD.  It's also $112K and expected to compete with the Porsche 911.

It's just as over the top as these pony cars

[SVT666]

It's just as over the top as these pony cars

In a segment where it is expected to compete with the 911.

[giant_mtb]

Too much power.  I want to be able to enjoy winding it out between shifts at full throttle without hitting the speed limit in 4 seconds.  IT's one reason I love the little guy I drive now.  Just getting up to the speed limit, I get time to enjoy the sound and feel of winding it out.  It's not over in a blink of an eye.

I get that. I really liked my A4 for that reason. It was by no means fast, but it was a manual, made turbo noises, and could get me to speed faster than most vehicles. Quick is more fun than fast on the street. More room to play.

[12,000 RPM]

In a segment where it is expected to compete with the 911.

There are cars in the 911's segment that aren't over the top to the point that they are damn near undrivable. Case in point.... the benchmark 911; V8 Vantage; AMG GT (borderline); C7 Stingray etc. Jag F-Type was damn near GT500esque, and now with AWD it weighs as much as an XJ and has a nose heavy balance. You are blinded by its gorgeous looks and exhaust note.

[12,000 RPM]

I get that. I really liked my A4 for that reason. It was by no means fast, but it was a manual, made turbo noises, and could get me to speed faster than most vehicles. Quick is more fun than fast on the street. More room to play.

The ability to use 100% of a car's anything- throttle, traction, brakes- on the street is criminally underrated. Talk of "Miataness" has become cliche but 500+ HP on the street is like a 2 foot dick.

Not to mention you get used to everything.... 400, 500, 600, 700 HP.... doesn't necessarily make a car fun to drive. It can get old or even annoying

[GoCougs]

There are cars in the 911's segment that aren't over the top to the point that they are damn near undrivable. Case in point.... the benchmark 911; V8 Vantage; AMG GT (borderline); C7 Stingray etc. Jag F-Type was damn near GT500esque, and now with AWD it weighs as much as an XJ and has a nose heavy balance. You are blinded by its gorgeous looks and exhaust note.

How many of those cars have you driven?

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

The ability to use 100% of a car's anything- throttle, traction, brakes- on the street is criminally underrated. Talk of "Miataness" has become cliche but 500+ HP on the street is like a 2 foot dick.

Not to mention you get used to everything.... 400, 500, 600, 700 HP.... doesn't necessarily make a car fun to drive. It can get old or even annoying

Just because you have 400 or 500 HP (in a well sorted car not some modified POS) doesn't mean you have to use it every time you drive to the corner store! I rarely use all of the 360 HP I have but when I do I LOVE IT!

[CaminoRacer]

Just because you have 400 or 500 HP (in a well sorted car not some modified POS) doesn't mean you have to use it every time you drive to the corner store! I rarely use all of the 360 HP I have but when I do I LOVE IT!

Got that right!

[SJ_GTI]

Just because you have 400 or 500 HP (in a well sorted car not some modified POS) doesn't mean you have to use it every time you drive to the corner store! I rarely use all of the 360 HP I have but when I do I LOVE IT!

This is true, but I can kind of understand his point.

My lowly 330 HP in a ~4,000lb pig of a car goes like absolute stink when I mash the pedal, so the impact is that I rarely ever go full out (because there usually isn't enough road). Would 400 HP be nice? Yeah sure...but I would be able to use 400HP even less frequently than 330 HP. The main advantage is that the power I do use will be a little more readily available (likely lower in the RPM range). Like all things there are diminishing returns the more you get. For me 330 HP was a Huge Improvement over my prior car's 200 HP, which itself felt like a huge improvement over the prior car's 170 HP.

500 HP would be nice to have, but I don't think it would be as useful as it was going from 200 HP to 330 HP (which itself didn't feel like as much as a day-to-day upgrade from 170 HP to 200 HP).

[CaminoRacer]

Having a 500 hp turbo engine vs. N/A is a big difference as well. Making huge levels of lower RPM power is going to be less fun on the street. A 500 hp N/A that builds power above 4000 rpm allows you to play around a bit more.

[12,000 RPM]

Having a 500 hp turbo engine vs. N/A is a big difference as well. Making huge levels of lower RPM power is going to be less fun on the street. A 500 hp N/A that builds power above 4000 rpm allows you to play around a bit more.

IDK man. On the street I feel like midrange is king. Especially with the right gearing. If you have 500HP you have to commit to to get I hope you have a lot of long, empty, cop-free roads. Otherwise it's risky and a bit reckless. On the flipside... with me on it my bike has about the same power to weight ratio as a 997 Carrera. Thing is the way the power and aero work on it, it feels like twice that below 50 MPH or so and maybe like 1/2-2/3 that above. So on surface streets it makes me giggle. From a stoplight it is a rocket. Feels like much faster than a 12 second ride. And traction from a launch is not an issue, unlike with a hi po RWD car... and I can get a pretty nasty launch without driveline fears like an AWD car. On the track, OK, it's not bad to have to wind it out as you are up there anyway. But on the street I want my HP right now.

[CaminoRacer]

IDK man. On the street I feel like midrange is king. Especially with the right gearing. If you have 500HP you have to commit to to get I hope you have a lot of long, empty, cop-free roads. Otherwise it's risky and a bit reckless. On the flipside... with me on it my bike has about the same power to weight ratio as a 997 Carrera. Thing is the way the power and aero work on it, it feels like twice that below 50 MPH or so and maybe like 1/2-2/3 that above. So on surface streets it makes me giggle. From a stoplight it is a rocket. Feels like much faster than a 12 second ride. And traction from a launch is not an issue, unlike with a hi po RWD car... and I can get a pretty nasty launch without driveline fears like an AWD car. On the track, OK, it's not bad to have to wind it out as you are up there anyway. But on the street I want my HP right now.

See, but with 500 HP you're gonna say it's too much if you have it down low. Having it up high means that you can have 300 HP in normal driving and then when you're first at the stoplight, you can blast off.

[Cookie Monster]

See, but with 500 HP you're gonna say it's too much if you have it down low. Having it up high means that you can have 300 HP in normal driving and then when you're first at the stoplight, you can blast off.

I agree. I like peaky powerbands when you don't HAVE to rev the shit out of it to drive it normally.

For example, my ~100 HP CBR600F4i was peaky as fuck. Started pulling only after 8k or so and pulled hard after 10k all the way up to 14k. It was super docile and easy to ride on the streets at around 3-6k, and on the highway it had enough power cruising at 6k to pass cars without downshifting, but wouldn't rocket you forward.

My ~115 HP FJ-09, on the other hand, pulls like a train from 2-3k. The midrange is crazy on that bike, and on the highway, cruising at 5-6k RPM, even a little throttle will surge you forward if you're not used to it, which is partly how I got my ticket. I wasn't paying attention to the speed and that thing picks up way faster from a roll than the F4i did.

[12,000 RPM]

See, but with 500 HP you're gonna say it's too much if you have it down low. Having it up high means that you can have 300 HP in normal driving and then when you're first at the stoplight, you can blast off.

If you can get traction it's never too much. That's really the only problem with a lot of power down low. But when you are just trying to stay with traffic too much power in general can become a hindrance. And putting power up top blunts response down low and in the middle where you spend 90% of time on the road. I would rather a car be excellent where I am forced to keep the RPMs most of the time and just OK elsewhere.

[SVT666]

There are cars in the 911's segment that aren't over the top to the point that they are damn near undrivable. Case in point.... the benchmark 911; V8 Vantage; AMG GT (borderline); C7 Stingray etc. Jag F-Type was damn near GT500esque, and now with AWD it weighs as much as an XJ and has a nose heavy balance. You are blinded by its gorgeous looks and exhaust note.

If anything the AWD has really tamed those 550 horses and the last review I read said it was actually a really nice drive now.

[CaminoRacer]

If you can get traction it's never too much. That's really the only problem with a lot of power down low. But when you are just trying to stay with traffic too much power in general can become a hindrance. And putting power up top blunts response down low and in the middle where you spend 90% of time on the road. I would rather a car be excellent where I am forced to keep the RPMs most of the time and just OK elsewhere.

A 500 HP LS3 tuned for ~500 HP at 7000 rpm redline is gonna be great at 3000 rpm and fantastic at 4-7k.

[MX793]

If you can get traction it's never too much. That's really the only problem with a lot of power down low. But when you are just trying to stay with traffic too much power in general can become a hindrance. And putting power up top blunts response down low and in the middle where you spend 90% of time on the road. I would rather a car be excellent where I am forced to keep the RPMs most of the time and just OK elsewhere.

Having good top-end power doesn't mean you have to sacrifice low and midrange power.  My V6 Mustang made good power everywhere.  Torque curve was pretty much flat from 2000 RPM on up to about 800 RPM short of redline and rolled off gradually enough that it didn't feel like it had fallen on its face before redline.  My 5.0 makes good power everywhere, though the bottom may be a little soft when compared to the mid range and top end (torque curve isn't quite as flat as the V6).  Both motors hit peak power a few hundred RPM short of redline.  In contrast, my 240SX made decent low and midrange power (for its engine size) but fell off sharply about 1000 RPM short of redline.  Bad enough that I think you were actually better off shifting before redline.  As I recall, the power peak on that motor was about 1200 RPM before redline.  My Mazda, with a similarly sized engine, felt a little softer in the bottom, similar in the midrange, and was still pulling well at rev limiter.  That car hit peak power at redline.

[CaminoRacer]

My car starts to fall off at 4700-4800. Kind of unfortunate, because the noise it makes at 5000 rpm is orgasmic.

[GoCougs]

The only problem with too much power is putting it in cars that can't handle it, and the kissing cousin to that, using aids (AWD, aggressive SC/TC - like the E63, RS7 and M5 (yes, the new M5 is going AWD)) to make the car accessible on public roads. 

Haven't driven the new Camaro, but I'd bet a princely sum that despite much more performance/power it's both a better drive and the performance is more accessible than the 5th gen Camaro; ditto for 5th gen vs. 4th gen and 4th gen vs. 3rd gen (things get murkier after than owing to the Detroit malaise whereby cars changed but they didn't necessarily get better).

[12,000 RPM]

There are different avenues/measures of accessibility. 6th gen SS might be able to put the power down better than the 5th gen, but I feel like you are going to have trouble finding anywhere to deploy it in either

[MX793]

Getting back to the Camaro, I'd just like to say that the flat black hood on the black SS1LE show car looked awful.