The Official Sixth Gen Camaro Thread!

[MX793]

The LS7 peaks at 6300 rpm and torque is dropping pretty rapidly by that point.  Being able to rev to 7000 or 8000 or more RPM doesn't mean a motor necessarily makes good power at those RPMs.  Give an LS7 the cam required to make power out to 8000 rpm (the valvetrain can reportedly handle it) and it's bottom end power production will take a hit.

[12,000 RPM]

It also won't be able to meet emissions regs. If Chevy could have got any more EPA compliant power out of the LS I promise you the LT would not have happened.

Not to say Ford's approach is optimal at all.... those valves and cam gear parts all add up quickly. However I think Ford has room to play. Cylinder walls on N/A motors can get thin and they are nowhere near the 100mm bore centers. But it would have been cool for them to continue to develop the Windsor block.

[Char]

Car wasn't built to run 0-60 or 1/4 mile.  It's geared for road racing.  It also doesn't have the low end grunt of the larger LT motor.  That flat plane crank and those big multi-valve heads are all about mid to top end breathing, and it came at the cost of the bottom end power since it doesn't have VVL.  The 5.0 Coyote makes more low-end grunt.  A regular Mustang GT will walk from a GT350 in a 30-70 top gear roll-on by ~4.5 seconds.  And the GT350 has a [very] slightly shorter 6th gear.

Intake manifold and the high lift camshafts are really what are hurting low speed velocity and power. But I think better exhaust manifolds or a BMW/Infiniti like Variable Lift Camshaft could have helped.

[12,000 RPM]

Man that motor would have been huge with VVL and a VIM

Wouldn't hurt though. Maybe for the next Rustang

[CaminoRacer]

It also won't be able to meet emissions regs. If Chevy could have got any more EPA compliant power out of the LS I promise you the LT would not have happened.

Not to say Ford's approach is optimal at all.... those valves and cam gear parts all add up quickly. However I think Ford has room to play. Cylinder walls on N/A motors can get thin and they are nowhere near the 100mm bore centers. But it would have been cool for them to continue to develop the Windsor block.

The LT is just the natural progression of the LS. It got a new name for the generation, but it's just an LS with some tweaks and new tech.

[GoCougs]

Actually, GM stated that the LT1 was the most significant redesign in the ~60 year history of the Chevy small block - it only shares some basic dimensions and firing order with the LS3 - most everything else is new, esp. heads.

The LS3 had roots back to the '97 LS1. Chevy did a good job of advancing the motor but it wasn't with tech - a bit more displacement here, a bit more CR there, and that was about it, save for VVT in some applications. The LT and its tech was definitely needed to keep pace with the times.

[CaminoRacer]

But it's not a ground-up design. It was taking the LS and saying "what changes do we need to make to do xyz"

[GoCougs]

Yes, new ground up design. The LT1 upended the aftermarket community quite a bit since major performance upgrade items (esp. heads and cam) are not compatible between the LT1 and LSx.

[CaminoRacer]

I guess. I don't really want to argue semantics. I consider it a major evolution but it's still a small block Chevy. They just threw a LOT of changes at it this go-around instead of doing it bit-by-bit (which makes sense, since the past decade has seen a lot of advancement in tech)

[Char]

I guess that intake manifold isn't a detriment afterall:

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40739



and

[12,000 RPM]

Kind of begs the question of what the purpose of the Voodoo motor is.... that's basically Voodoo power with less revs

[MX793]

Yes, new ground up design. The LT1 upended the aftermarket community quite a bit since major performance upgrade items (esp. heads and cam) are not compatible between the LT1 and LSx.

An all-new head does not mean a ground-up new design.  Unless you think the SOHC 4.0 Cologne V6 was a brand new motor compared to the 4.0L OHV Cologne.  Or the 3V Ford 4.6Mod vs the older 2-valve version.

Likewise, one very simple and small change can make it such that cams are not backwards/forwards compatible.  A simple change to the size of the cam bearings will do that.  Again, doesn't make it a ground-up new design.

[GoCougs]

Guys, save for some basic dimensions every facet of the LT1 is a ground-up all new design over the LS3 - it's all different and nothing is backwards compatible.

[12,000 RPM]

There are VQs between which no parts are compatible.... they are still based on the same architecture. LS and LT still have the same bore spacing for example, just like all the VQs

[GoCougs]

Hmmmm. Scuttlebutt is the 580 hp LSA from the previous ZL1 could be powering the new Z/28.

That would make me sad, and really, it doesn't make sense. It's not materially cheaper to produce or lighter than the LT4. At that point I'd rather have the LS7.

[68_427]

I'd be shocked

[MX793]

Latest C&D has Camaro V6 vs Mustang EcoPoops.  Camaro took the win, mostly because of the engine.  Over half of the very brief overview of the Mustang delved into how much the editors disliked the engine.  Poor NVH, unpleasant exhaust note, doesn't like to rev...  They liked the rest of the package (ergonomics, ride/handling balance, shifter, etc).  Takeaway was that if they bought the V6 Camaro, they probably wouldn't regret not getting the V8 whereas with the EB Mustang, they always would.

As I was glancing through the specs for the test cars, my jaw just about hit the floor when I saw the price for the Camaro.  As-test price on the Chevy was over $38,000.  The Mustang was $32K and change.

[Xer0]

What test is this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MX793]

What test is this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

June issue.  Not online yet.

[afty]

The C&D issue is about turbo vs. NA.  Camaro V6 vs. Mustang Ecoboost is one of the articles, but there's are a bunch of others and they are all interesting.

[Xer0]

Yikes, 6k difference is a lot of money.

[Laconian]

$38k? Um, what?

[FlatBlackCaddy]

38K is fine.

The Camaro is a Premium offering from a Premium Brand....


/Fanboy Test

[MX793]

The C&D issue is about turbo vs. NA.  Camaro V6 vs. Mustang Ecoboost is one of the articles, but there's are a bunch of others and they are all interesting.

That explains the emphasis on the engine character.  I didn't read the whole issue.  Saw it on the magazine rack at the supermarket and quickly skimmed the Mustang vs Camaro piece.  Didn't realize the whole issue was turbo vs NA themed.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

That explains the emphasis on the engine character.  I didn't read the whole issue.  Saw it on the magazine rack at the supermarket and quickly skimmed the Mustang vs Camaro piece.  Didn't realize the whole issue was turbo vs NA themed.

Yeah! The V8 F-150 vs. Eco F-150 article was a shocker too.....

[MX793]

Yeah! The V8 F-150 vs. Eco F-150 article was a shocker too.....

I think I saw that on the web (though I can't find it now).  Not surprised the 3.5TT is the quicker motor.  My brother has the last generation F-150 (the last year of the steel body) with that motor and it has some punch.  He gets decent mileage with it, too.  He gets like 20-21 on the highway.  His last F-150, with the 5.4L Triton, only got like 16-17 on the highway and had a lot less grunt.

[MX793]

Camaro posts the worst May monthly sales since the 5th generation debuted (by ~36%), and down 40% from a year ago and down 21% from last month, which was the best month for the Gen6 to date.  It was the slowest selling of the 3 pony cars last month.  Car sales were down across the board this May, with Mustang dropping 24% and Challenger falling only 10% compared to last May.

Seems GM has seriously misread the segment.  A fresh new model selling that far off the pace from the outgoing model after 7-8 months on the market is not a good sign.

[MrH]

Come onnnnn cheap V8 SS Camaros

Let's pray for some Chrysler 200 level incentives.

[GoCougs]

It's one of the best cars on sale today at any price, and 1-2 generations ahead of the class, but it's still relatively very pricey. Ford is also hitting fleet sales hard whereas GM has backed off quite a bit.

[FoMoJo]

It's one of the best cars on sale today at any price, and 1-2 generations ahead of the class, but it's still relatively very pricey. Ford is also hitting fleet sales hard whereas GM has backed off quite a bit.