Cadillac CT6 Flagship to Make Debut: March 31st 2015 at NYIAS / Latest Caddy Updates

[12,000 RPM]

Neither. It is supposed to cannibalize the CTS and XTS.

[12,000 RPM]

Looks better on the road, but I just don't know if it's enough, or if it sends the right message. Remember when Johan de Nysschen said Cadillac would not try to compete on price?

[SJ_GTI]

This is probably a stupid question, but what is this supposed to compete with? 7-series or 5-series?

IIRC it is 7-series sized but at a 5-series price.

Some quick googling (Wikipedia) shows the following lengths...

5-series: 193.2"
7-Series: 200.7" to 206.2"

CT6: 204"
edit to add CTS: 195.5"

[SJ_GTI]

Neither. It is supposed to cannibalize the CTS and XTS.

FWIW, according to specs it is a good ~9 inches longer than the CTS. It is about the same size as the XTS (slightly larger), but there you are talking FWD versus RWD.

[12,000 RPM]

FWIW, according to specs it is a good ~9 inches longer than the CTS. It is about the same size as the XTS (slightly larger), but there you are talking FWD versus RWD.

From what I remember, the cars all cost about the same with the same engines. 3 ~$50-70K sedans (in 3 shrinking segments), 1 CUV, and that CUV isn't even in the hottest segment lol.

[SJ_GTI]

From what I remember, the cars all cost about the same with the same engines. 3 ~$50-70K sedans (in 3 shrinking segments), 1 CUV, and that CUV isn't even in the hottest segment lol.

Google can be your friend.

CTS Starting Price: 45,560
CT6 Starting Price: 54,490

A 9k price spread seems like a reasonable differentiation to me.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Need more Eldorado.

[TBR]

Did not realize it was so big. Makes the price easier to swallow.

Pretty sure the XTS is on the chopping block?

[2o6]

Yeah, XTS is on its way out, and GM has two SUV's coming out for Cadillac - the XT5 compact crossover, and the forthcoming (XT7?) based on the longer GM LAMBDA.


And possibly an XT3

[Cookie Monster]

This is probably a stupid question, but what is this supposed to compete with? 7-series or 5-series?

I think the 5-series since they're saying it's not the flagship sedan for Cadillac.

I like it though. That twin turbo V6 sounds nice, though $65k to get a CT6 with that engine seems spendy.

[12,000 RPM]

Google can be your friend.

CTS Starting Price: 45,560
CT6 Starting Price: 54,490

A 9k price spread seems like a reasonable differentiation to me.

It is your friend too

CTS 3.6: $54,280
CT6 3.6: $56,490
XTS 3.6: $45,655

CTS V-Sport: $60,950
CT6 3.6TT: $65,390
XTS V-Sport: $63,730

I would not be surprised if the CT6 were better equipped for the $$$ too... i.e. the gap is even smaller. We will see when the True Delta comparisons are available

But for the $$$ I cannot see why anyone would buy a CTS over a CT6. Or an XTS V sport for that matter. JdN will leave Cadillac this year.

[2o6]

CTS is disappearing after it's model cycle. I wouldn't be surprised if ATS gets bigger, then there's a hole that Cadillac has hinted at filling.

[12,000 RPM]

That is kind of funny. So the ATS will become the CTS, and the CT6 will play the role of the STS+. Kind of like they had going..... 10 years ago lmao.

[CaminoRacer]

CTS is still the best because CTS-V.

Cadillac can make sweet cars, they just need better branding direction. Make a plan and stick with it, instead of coming out with 1/3rd of a plan and then switching.

[SJ_GTI]

It is your friend too

CTS 3.6: $54,280
CT6 3.6: $56,490
XTS 3.6: $45,655

CTS V-Sport: $60,950
CT6 3.6TT: $65,390
XTS V-Sport: $63,730

I would not be surprised if the CT6 were better equipped for the $$$ too... i.e. the gap is even smaller. We will see when the True Delta comparisons are available

But for the $$$ I cannot see why anyone would buy a CTS over a CT6. Or an XTS V sport for that matter. JdN will leave Cadillac this year.

I didn't claim there was no overlap.

CTS is a smaller, less expensive car though. Not sure what problem you see.

ATS is about the same size as the 3-series/C-Class/A4 and runs a bit less expensive (for similar engines).
CTS is about the same size as a 5-series/E-Class/A6 sized and runs a bit less expensive (for similar engines).
CT6 is 7-series/S-Class/A8 sized and runs even less expensive than the other ones, so at worst this is potentially a sign that Cadillac is trying to compete more on price.

Considering sales of the ATS and CTS have no been great, I don't see the harm in them giving it a go. The CTS's initial success was largely built on competing up a size but at a price that was down a size (ie: they sold a 5-series competitor for a 3-series price). If Caddy moves back in that direction I would applaud them.

I am not a fan of the new naming scheme but at the end of the day the cars will be judged on their own merits.

[Submariner]

Nothing says "flag bearer" quite like a 2.0 Turbo 4.

But this is the same company that thought Merc was going to half-ass it with the current S-class, developed the CT6 with that in mind, then realized that the S-class was in fact just as good as every other brand and buyer thought it would be.  Thus, the CT6 was quietly demoted in place of a (possible) future executive saloon that will have to command the same prices as the Germans when Cadillac has proven with the ATS and CTS that they can't even compete on price and generate half-decent sales. 

And where is the CT6 going to sit in the lineup if a flagship does indeed materializes?  The CT6 is already the size of the LWB S-Class, 7 Series, A8 and XJ.  Are they going to make a Maybach competitor?  Why not just make a LWB CT6 instead?  At least that way they can differentiate it from the other similarly sized vehicle in their range, the XTS. 

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

When Caddy says "There's Room Above It (as a flagship)" I assumed a more expensive Coupe/Drop Top was in the works.......

[GoCougs]

The new CTS-V, and to a lesser extent, the CTS Vsport, shows Cadillac can best the Germans at their own game.

[SJ_GTI]

Nothing says "flag bearer" quite like a 2.0 Turbo 4.

But this is the same company that thought Merc was going to half-ass it with the current S-class, developed the CT6 with that in mind, then realized that the S-class was in fact just as good as every other brand and buyer thought it would be.  Thus, the CT6 was quietly demoted in place of a (possible) future executive saloon that will have to command the same prices as the Germans when Cadillac has proven with the ATS and CTS that they can't even compete on price and generate half-decent sales. 

And where is the CT6 going to sit in the lineup if a flagship does indeed materializes?  The CT6 is already the size of the LWB S-Class, 7 Series, A8 and XJ.  Are they going to make a Maybach competitor?  Why not just make a LWB CT6 instead?  At least that way they can differentiate it from the other similarly sized vehicle in their range, the XTS.

Its the entry level engine. It also offers 400 HP twin turbo V6 and there is a turbo V8 on the way.

I am not sure what you and 12,000 criticism really is.

It should have been more expensive?

Personally I don't think it is going to be a huge success or anything. Its not a particularly vibrant sector of the market anyway, and Cadillac's only differentiator right now is that it is cheaper than the Germans. Will that being enough for it to be profitable? Who knows, but at least they're trying. 

[Submariner]

Its the entry level engine. It also offers 400 HP twin turbo V6 and there is a turbo V8 on the way.

Base or no base, it doesn't speak well to the caliber of the car when the entry level engine is a 2.0 4-pot.

"So what can I get for $55k?"

"Cadillac signature headlights, an awful infotainment system, and a 2.0L 4-banger"

"You mean the kind of engine my son has in his Cobalt?"

Want to bet the salesmen are instructed to say as little as possible about the base power plant?

I am not sure what you and 12,000 criticism really is.

It should have been more expensive?

It should have been done right from the onset. 

The Frenchman openly admitted that he was shocked how good the S-class turned out to be.  He managed to underestimate the decades-long leader of the executive saloon segment, an absolutely absurd failure for anyone even casually interested in the car industry, then pretended that their German-flagship fighter was always intended to be a stopgap before the real flagship was ready.  He is implicitly saying "the CT6 isn't as good as it should be."  Maybe they can use that line for their 10th slogan change in what seems like a 5 year period.   

Which leaves Cadillac with a FWD full size luxo-barge, a same size RWD luxo-barge (sounds familiar?) and a flagship that will have to be larger in size and higher in price to top the CT6 and compete with the Germans, meaning the only thing Cadillac really can compete on (price) is no longer as big of an advantage for them.

Cadillac can't move their 3/C/A4 and 5/E/A6 fighters at substantially lower prices.  They're going to have a doubly hard time moving a class of car that depends even more on prestige and image. 

[2o6]

The 528i has a 4cylinder, and a great deal of people don't even fucking notice.

[SVT666]

The 528i has a 4cylinder, and a great deal of people don't even fucking notice.

Does the 7 Series? That's what this is competing against.

[2o6]

Does the 7 Series? That's what this is competing against.

Not in this market, no - but in the same way that BMW put its 4 cyl in cars to showcase how refined and powerful it is, Cadillac is here.

[Submariner]

Not in this market, no

No one cares if it's smooth.  They care if it's the same engine found in a Mazda 3.

Why do you think Merc, BMW and Audi all have 12 cylinder engines in their cars when turbo V8's make just as much power and consume less fuel?  Prestige. 

but in the same way that BMW put its 4 cyl in cars to showcase how refined and powerful it is, Cadillac is here.

Nah.  Cadillac fucked up and they know it.  They have implicitly and explicitly admitted as much, which is why they coyly call the CT6 a "flag bearer" (instead of "flagship, which it actually is) while saddling it with a 4-pot, and a more powerful V6 for just 2k more. 

[2o6]

I'd say that most buy the 8 cylinders - I know when I worked at BMW there were far more 7 series 6cyl and V8 and 7 series Active Hybrids than the 12 cylinder models. The 12 cylinder models are notorious for being problematic and eating far more fluids than they should. Hell, BMW doesn't even make a 12 cylinder 7 series now.



I think you're putting far more on cylinder count than most luxury car makers actually care about. It's not relevant.

[2o6]

Also arguably, this class of car no longer is the brands symbol of prestige.


Most people who have cash like that would rather have cars like the X6.


I heard at least twice a day "Why doesn't BMW make an X7?" (Since the X5 is undersized for towing and is actually closer to a Grand Cherokee inside rather than a Tahoe or Suburban)



A great deal of these cars (s class and A8 and 7 series) are livery vehicles in their home market, where people who have money now drive SUV's

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Gm doesn't know how to run a luxury brand.

[2o6]

Gm doesn't know how to run a luxury brand.

Yes

[Eye of the Tiger]

Yes

[12,000 RPM]

The new CTS-V, and to a lesser extent, the CTS Vsport, shows Cadillac can best the Germans at their own game.

Maybe if it was the 90s, when "halo cars" and magazine comparo wins sold cars. As the sharp sales decline of everything Caddy + Alpha shows compared to the Germans it's pretty clear Caddy and the Germans are not playing the same game.

"Nobody CARES about BREMBO BRAKES & RING TIMES when you're STUCK IN TRAFFIC" - some TTAC looney tune