Is Cadillac's real problem the Koreans?

[SVT32V]

Buick is definitely on the same level as Acura, and in terms of interiors, luxury, and NVH, they are far ahead of Acura.

I find it hard to ever argue on Acura's behalf, they have made one good car that was left to languish. However, to say that the the buick badge all of a sudden is on the same level of Acura (a brand that was launched as upscale 30 yrs ago) and has built brand cache only as a luxury automaker only is absurd.

[SVT666]

I find it hard to ever argue on Acura's behalf, they have made one good car that was left to languish. However, to say that the the buick badge all of a sudden is on the same level of Acura (a brand that was launched as upscale 30 yrs ago) and has built brand cache only as a luxury automaker only is absurd.

People are talking about Buick as a car to strive for again.  I've heard them. My boss' wife for one.

[CALL_911]

People are talking about Buick as a car to strive for again.  I've heard them. My boss' wife for one.

I have never heard anything even remotely close to that before. Although I will say, their products are pretty damn good.

[veeman]

I don't think the Escalade has any image problem.  I see lots of them where I live which is a very Waspy area, and they aren't being driven by rappers or athletes.  I agree with 12,000 RPM that something has to fundamentally change with Cadillac and it's sedans/coupes.  I don't think taking Lincoln's route with heavy rebadging is a solution but I don't think trying to emulate the Germans, which is what they've been trying to do, is workable either.  I think they should try a middle road.  Concentrate on beautiful design, class leading interiors both in terms of design and materials, and make the interiors cavernous.  Make something which looks and feels as good and as large as an E or S class Mercedes, put a big engine in it so it can go fast in a straight line, and then significantly undercut the price of the Mercedes.  There's no reason you have to compete with BMW on a track.  That demographic is not interested in your cars.

[Rich]

I'd like Cadillac to go the way of Bently and Buick to go the way of Lexus

[Madman]

I don't think the Escalade has any image problem.  I see lots of them where I live which is a very Waspy area, and they aren't being driven by rappers or athletes.  I agree with 12,000 RPM that something has to fundamentally change with Cadillac and it's sedans/coupes.  I don't think taking Lincoln's route with heavy rebadging is a solution but I don't think trying to emulate the Germans, which is what they've been trying to do, is workable either.  I think they should try a middle road.  Concentrate on beautiful design, class leading interiors both in terms of design and materials, and make the interiors cavernous.  Make something which looks and feels as good and as large as an E or S class Mercedes, put a big engine in it so it can go fast in a straight line, and then significantly undercut the price of the Mercedes.  There's no reason you have to compete with BMW on a track.  That demographic is not interested in your cars.

The need to undercut Mercedes on price is a de facto admission of inferiority on the part of Cadillac.  You're not a legitimate premium brand unless you are able to command premium prices for your product and that's something Cadillac, in its current state, is simply unable to do.  This situation will not change until Cadillac brings the product, the image and the dealership experience up to world-class standards.

I'd like Cadillac to go the way of Bently and Buick to go the way of Lexus

That's sort of the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.  Cadillac needs to make up for the horrors and bad memories of the 1980s and 1990s by taking the brand upmarket and trading on exclusivity.  Until then, it will always be considered nothing more than a cut-price German imitator.

[SJ_GTI]

The need to undercut Mercedes on price is a de facto admission of inferiority on the part of Cadillac.  You're not a legitimate premium brand unless you are able to command premium prices for your product and that's something Cadillac, in its current state, is simply unable to do.  This situation will not change until Cadillac brings the product, the image and the dealership experience up to world-class standards.


That's sort of the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.  Cadillac needs to make up for the horrors and bad memories of the 1980s and 1990s by taking the brand upmarket and trading on exclusivity.  Until then, it will always be considered nothing more than a cut-price German imitator.

I think the bolded part is a legit problem. The only dealership that sells Cadillac near me is actually just a Chevy dealer that happens to sell Cadillac on the side.

If I had to guess, though, GM is restricted in what it can do with dealerships due to franchise laws.

[12,000 RPM]

The need to undercut Mercedes on price is a de facto admission of inferiority on the part of Cadillac.  You're not a legitimate premium brand unless you are able to command premium prices for your product and that's something Cadillac, in its current state, is simply unable to do.  This situation will not change until Cadillac brings the product, the image and the dealership experience up to world-class standards.

That's sort of the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.  Cadillac needs to make up for the horrors and bad memories of the 1980s and 1990s by taking the brand upmarket and trading on exclusivity.  Until then, it will always be considered nothing more than a cut-price German imitator.

I wouldn't say it's inferiority. Let's just be frank- BMW & Mercedes' offerings are better suited to the markets than what Cadillac has brought. Yes, the ATS/CTS prove a lot about GM's capacity to build good cars. But they also prove GM doesn't have a clue what makes the luxury markets tick. Caddy's cars are dynamically sharper, but BMW/MB's cars are roomier, faster, more fuel efficient and easier to operate. What's more relevant to the average person a higher percent of the time?

And where upmarket can they go? The higher up you go in price the more and more the intangibles like brand and H&H matter. Caddy has none. Naw, if they want to maximize profit they should play in that $40-50K range and leverage their hybrid tech. Supposedly the CT6 will be unveiling the PHEV variant they claimed the whole CT6 line would be at the Bejing Auto Show. So they are sort of getting a clue. They need to punch out the back seats and toss CUE in the garbage next. And dial back the anonymity by 100,000%.

[pendyman]

Interesting discussion, in the main. Too many points have been brought up to talk about in any real way, but I do want to remark on one thing said.

My sister and her husband have horses and a boat, and the X5 they had was absolutely not up to the task of pulling either. Just too flimsy and light. They still loved it, but not for towing. They got rid of the X5 and got an amazingly equipped Tahoe, which was terrific for trips, but still not great for towing a trailer with two horses in it. Now they have a huge new Silverado 2500HD, which does the towing. BTW, they also recently got a new Mercedes C class for the family car, and love it. They traded their XTS for it.

One other small point: their boat is a fresh water boat, and they do not want to leave it in the water full time. Too much wear and tear. It still looks new, and they want to keep it that way.

[12,000 RPM]

Yea, shits expensive. My buddy has a boat, that's enough for me.

[SVT666]

Yeah, I can easily pay for a slip for my boat, but for the 5 minutes it takes to drop it in and take out, it doesn't make any sense.  Also, the fact that I can have the boat at home to clean it out after a weekend of waterskiing is priceless.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

Yea, shits expensive. My buddy has a boat, that's enough for me.

The two happiest days in a boat owners life is the day he buys the boat and the day he sells it!

[Laconian]

I'm still trying to talk my SO out of boat ownership.

[12,000 RPM]

Maybe a houseboat the way RE looks over there

Solar powered desalinator I might be on to something

[SVT666]

The two happiest days in a boat owners life is the day he buys the boat and the day he sells it!

I've had one repair in the three years I've had my boat. My parents, on the other hand, had boat trouble on an almost weekly basis.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

I've had one repair in the three years I've had my boat. My parents, on the other hand, had boat trouble on an almost weekly basis.

You've been lucky! Last summer my cousin picked up a brand new boat and that damn thing left us stranded on the lake on back to back days! The first day the boat ran fine! But the second day the ignition switch went bad and the next day the fuel pump died! Each time we had to pull it back to Traverse City MI which is an 1.5 hour drive from my cabin!    I won't go into the head aches our jet ski gives us! 

[SVT666]

You've been lucky! Last summer my cousin picked up a brand new boat and that damn thing left us stranded on the lake on back to back days! The first day the boat ran fine! But the second day the ignition switch went bad and the next day the fuel pump died! Each time we had to pull it back to Traverse City MI which is an 1.5 hour drive from my cabin!    I won't go into the head aches our jet ski gives us! 

I do all the proper maintenance and I always start the boat before I put it in the water so I'm not one of those assholes who didn't know his battery was dead and end up blocking the boat launch for an hour.

Last year my cousin ran into a sand bar that wasn't marked with his boat. Had to rebuilt the bottom of the leg and replace the prop. Luckily there was no other damage.

[12,000 RPM]

Wrong thread