EPA Going after VW...

[MrH]

On Twitter right now:



Yikes. Now starts the dogpile on VW.

[2o6]

Lincoln is talking shit because more of their lineup is lame as shit and Audi has been kicking their ass everywhere for the past 20 years.

[MrH]

Have you driven a Lincoln MKC by any chance?

I really haven't heard anything about Lincoln's in a long time. Then out of no where, I was watching one of Doug Demuro's what car would you buy videos, and everybody on there was talking about it being a class leader. They all loved the thing and were saying it was the best pick around $35k. It was weird.

[CALL_911]

The trouble with the MKC is how nice the Escape Titanium is

[MrH]

The problem with the escape is the interior looks like Vader's helmet. All black, glossy in a lot of places. Just miserable.

[2o6]

Also the back seat is too low.


Lexus NX, plz

[CALL_911]

The problem with the escape is the interior looks like Vader's helmet. All black, glossy in a lot of places. Just miserable.

I don't know, I like it. I also like Sync. Actually, I don't think there's anything about the Escape I didn't like.

[Raza]

Have you driven a Lincoln MKC by any chance?

I really haven't heard anything about Lincoln's in a long time. Then out of no where, I was watching one of Doug Demuro's what car would you buy videos, and everybody on there was talking about it being a class leader. They all loved the thing and were saying it was the best pick around $35k. It was weird.

They're nice as Ubers.

[Payman]

Update: This morning Volkswagen Canada also announced they were halting sales of TDI models. The CBC reports Environment Canada is in talks with the EPA "to further examine this issue and assess potential implications for Canada."

VW stock is down 20% this morning.

[BENZ BOY15]

You wonder if they'll ever recover.

[giant_mtb]

Of course they will. People still buy Toyotas and Chevys, and those things supposedly killed people!

[12,000 RPM]

You wonder if they'll ever recover.

The German auto industry survived the late 90s

This is a blip

[BENZ BOY15]

Of course they will. People still buy Toyotas and Chevys, and those things supposedly killed people!

Yeah I suppose the GM thing was a lot worse.

But when it comes to their diesel cars, that's the question. They'd have to figure out a way to make them pass the EPA requirements and I kinda wonder why they didn't just figure it out in the first place. Surely the Germans, some of the most innovative and capable car engineers on the planet, would be able to figure out a way. Maybe they could, it was too expensive and they decided to cheat.

Either way, I'm sure they regret the course of action they took. It's a shame too because diesels are a good alternative and, at least around here, diesel is much cheaper than regular gas.

[2o6]

They do pass the EPA requirements.


I feel like the circumvention of the DPF is more of an emissions parts longevity thing rather than a large performance issue.



Also, I would not be surprised if for 2017+ these cars switch to Urea-based after-exhaust treatment.

[Payman]

They do pass the EPA requirements.


I feel like the circumvention of the DPF is more of an emissions parts longevity thing rather than a large performance issue.



Also, I would not be surprised if for 2017+ these cars switch to Urea-based after-exhaust treatment.

I thought they changed to an AdBlue system for MY2016.

[MX793]

I thought they changed to an AdBlue system for MY2016.

On the 2.0?  I thought urea injection was only on the larger engines.

[MexicoCityM3]

The German auto industry survived the late 90s

This is a blip

This is intentional, premeditated circumventing of the rules + cover up. Not some engineering screw-up with a later cover up effort (like at GM or Takata). I think the planning and intentionality of it all makes a big difference. VW is in deep.

[12,000 RPM]

Anyone think Peich's exit is tied to this

[AutobahnSHO]

This is intentional, premeditated circumventing of the rules + cover up. Not some engineering screw-up with a later cover up effort (like at GM or Takata). I think the planning and intentionality of it all makes a big difference. VW is in deep.

Yeah, but Brady was playing again this weekend. 'Murricans will forgive a cheater if it works for them....

[Rich]

Anyone think Peich's exit is tied to this

I thought peich was already out and replaced by winterkorn

[MrH]

VW stock is tanking.  Time to buy!

[Galaxy]

VW stock is tanking.  Time to buy!

Not much to buy, the company is mostly private.

Anyone think Peich's exit is tied to this

I was thinking that as well. I am not sure in which constellation. Either Piëch was responsible for this and had to go, or he found out that Winterkorn did this and tried (failed) to slaughter him.

[93JC]

On the 2.0?  I thought urea injection was only on the larger engines.

The Passat uses the 2.0 L engine with urea injection; it is among the models that contained the programming to fib its way through the EPA emissions testing and was found by the researchers who discovered the "defeat device" to have 5-20x the allowable NOx, even with the urea injection.

[280Z Turbo]

I don't like this idea of unlimited liability when it comes to automakers. If the EPA's test is not realistic, then the problem is their test.

If you own a TDI who's going to make you go in and have it detuned?

[93JC]

I don't like this idea of unlimited liability when it comes to automakers. If the EPA's test is not realistic, then the problem is their test.

It's not a matter of the EPA test being unrealistic, it's a matter of VW having programmed the cars to completely ignore the running conditions that make it pass said test when it's not undergoing testing. It's about VW deliberately scheming a way around the EPA test.

If you own a TDI who's going to make you go in and have it detuned?

If you live in a state that requires annual emissions testing (e.g. California) the state would likely refuse renewing its registration until the condition was remedied.

[Payman]

Oh shit, that last one is a valid point. 

[MrH]

So, wonder what the outcome will be for all current inventory?  Do they scramble for a power robbing reflash?

I can't be the only one hoping prices take a dive, can pick one up cheap and flash it with an APR tune

[CALL_911]

Only thing I can think of is how cheap a Golf TDI is gonna get

[Payman]

A major selling point of the TDi, besides fuel economy and longevity, was high resale value. There's going to be a lot of pissed off owners.

[12,000 RPM]

I don't like this idea of unlimited liability when it comes to automakers. If the EPA's test is not realistic, then the problem is their test.

If you own a TDI who's going to make you go in and have it detuned?

If the EPA's test is not realistic, why is everyone else able to pass it without these silly tricks?

So, wonder what the outcome will be for all current inventory?  Do they scramble for a power robbing reflash?

I can't be the only one hoping prices take a dive, can pick one up cheap and flash it with an APR tune

But then u have to drive a diesel car. Keep in mind, fuel consumption is proportional to the inverse of gas mileage, and there are plenty of gas cars that get close to what the TDIs do, without the nasty particulates, complex emissions controls or "stinky" exhausts (not to mention the awful engine notes, peaky powerbands and price premiums).

What I am hoping is that regular VWs get cheaper too, though I don't think people's attn span goes that long. Wouldnt mind a new Tiguan and GTI to replace the current fleet.