Lol. Alfa delays Giulia and SUV

[Soup DeVille]

If I could afford a Ferrari or Lambo, I'd try to make it a point to be involved in or at least actively observe the services, just for the hell of it if they let me.  Then I'd know stuff.

The Ferrari market is weird as fuck. The idea that an owner might have changed his own oil or installed tires other than through the dealership is going to drag down the value like an anchor. Ferrari owners are convinced their cars are so super special that nobody but an actual Italian having a seance with Enzo himself is qualified to work on them.

[Eye of the Tiger]

The Ferrari market is weird as fuck. The idea that an owner might have changed his own oil or installed tires other than through the dealership is going to drag down the value like an anchor. Ferrari owners are convinced their cars are so super special that nobody but an actual Italian having a seance with Enzo himself is qualified to work on them.

I think Ferrari dealers use tire air imported from Italy. It makes sense because the cars were designed and built to handle properly on Italian air.

[Raza]

Would you touch a Ferrari? How about a Lamborghini? They are the most unreliable cars you can buy. High strung engines that need constant service, and timing and top end overhauls well before 100,000 miles. In buying a unique car, you have to accept that you aren't buying a plebeian mainstreamer. I love cars that have charm and character, as well as a real, romantic history. Real enthusiasts understand this.

In his defense, there is a difference in expectation for a daily driver and an exotic. 

But I don't think that would stop me from owning an Alfa or Fiat (within the warranty period, at least).

[giant_mtb]

The Ferrari market is weird as fuck. The idea that an owner might have changed his own oil or installed tires other than through the dealership is going to drag down the value like an anchor. Ferrari owners are convinced their cars are so super special that nobody but an actual Italian having a seance with Enzo himself is qualified to work on them.

Would probably be fairly irrelevant to me...I like to hold onto nice things for as long as I can. If I could afford a Ferrari, I'd be keeping it forever.

[Raza]

Would probably be fairly irrelevant to me...I like to hold onto nice things for as long as I can. If I could afford a Ferrari, I'd be keeping it forever.

Make sure it's one worth keeping forever; not like these computerized new ones. 

[12,000 RPM]

Would you touch a Ferrari? How about a Lamborghini? They are the most unreliable cars you can buy. High strung engines that need constant service, and timing and top end overhauls well before 100,000 miles. In buying a unique car, you have to accept that you aren't buying a plebeian mainstreamer. I love cars that have charm and character, as well as a real, romantic history. Real enthusiasts understand this.

If I want something unique I will just build it, or get something actually unique for the US like an Ariel Atom. There is no reason why a modern exotic car should require maintenance like a 40 year old Countach.

[12,000 RPM]

Make sure it's one worth keeping forever; not like these computerized new ones. 

The good Ferraris came well after the ones like this went out of production. F355-F430 era was Ferrari's peak, with some sprinklings of greatness (330 P4, F40, 458 Speciale) peppering the ends.

365 GTB was less than great and like all others from that time a nightmare to own. Remove the brand allure and Ferrari made some really less than good cars.

[MX793]

I increasingly feel like we look back at the classics with rose-colored glasses.  Watched a 5th Gear segment where they compared the MkI GTI, original Audi Quattro Coupe, and AMG E55 to current, non-performance variants of their descendants (Golf diesel, A5 diesel, and E250 diesel).  The new Golf, despite weighing ~1000 lbs more and having less power/weight absolutely obliterated the original GTI in a gymkhana type of event.  The new Merc came damn close to matching the E55 in a 0-70-0 drag race despite more weight at 150 less hp.  The A5 (again, much heavier and less powerful than its predecessor) was a driver error away from besting the old Quattro in a 2-lap race around Rockingham (led half the race and finished right on its tail).  That's not to mention the newer cars being vastly more comfortable and reliable than their forebears.  And the newer cars were generally considered better from a driver's perspective as well.

[giant_mtb]

I increasingly feel like we look back at the classics with rose-colored glasses.  Watched a 5th Gear segment where they compared the MkI GTI, original Audi Quattro Coupe, and AMG E55 to current, non-performance variants of their descendants (Golf diesel, A5 diesel, and E250 diesel).  The new Golf, despite weighing ~1000 lbs more and having less power/weight absolutely obliterated the original GTI in a gymkhana type of event.  The new Merc came damn close to matching the E55 in a 0-70-0 drag race despite more weight at 150 less hp.  The A5 (again, much heavier and less powerful than its predecessor) was a driver error away from besting the old Quattro in a 2-lap race around Rockingham (led half the race and finished right on its tail).  That's not to mention the newer cars being vastly more comfortable and reliable than their forebears.  And the newer cars were generally considered better from a driver's perspective as well.

But character, H&H, nostalgia, fiddling about, etc.

[12,000 RPM]

But character, H&H, nostalgia, fiddling about, etc.

Ehh, I suppose. But even outside of bench racing specs, there are some appreciable differences. OK, modern EPS kind of sucks, but it's getting better. Even still though, it's way better than the worm & pinion or recirculating ball type racks that were in old ass cars. The gear change on a lot of those cars was slow, vague and awful. And again I think bench racing is a bit silly but a modern car in the performance realm of something like a 365 GTB can be most exerent. A base Boxster will be just as fast, make good noise and require effort to make pace, but won't have a shitty interface and body controls. Theres nothing "characterful" or "nostalgic" about vague slow steering or slow crunchy gearboxes....

[CaminoRacer]

Even as someone with an old car, I'll say that character gets old. Sometimes I wish I had something more modern. A modern platform without the complicated electronics and emissions and crash standards would be perfection.

[Raza]

The good Ferraris came well after the ones like this went out of production. F355-F430 era was Ferrari's peak, with some sprinklings of greatness (330 P4, F40, 458 Speciale) peppering the ends.

365 GTB was less than great and like all others from that time a nightmare to own. Remove the brand allure and Ferrari made some really less than good cars.

I'll give you the cars you mentioned (except for the 458).  And yes, many of Ferrari's cars were pretty crap objectively.  But look at the 365 and tell me it's not so beautiful you wouldn't put up with it. 

[12,000 RPM]

Its beautiful for sure. But the way a car drives is more important than how it looks as far as what drives me to want to own one....

[Soup DeVille]

Would probably be fairly irrelevant to me...I like to hold onto nice things for as long as I can. If I could afford a Ferrari, I'd be keeping it forever.

See Raza's post above.

It's easy to say that; and hell, I get it. But it's quite another to be cavalier with your quarter million dollar toy when you write the check.

[cawimmer430]

Another delay? Another one? 

[SVT666]

How does a car fail all the crash tests when they run the cars through simulated crash testing before anything is ever built???

[12,000 RPM]

Because FCA

[CaminoRacer]

Especially when the entire industry should already know what it takes to pass the tests. I would think the required materials and design is well known by now.

[Yawn]

Per Road and Track: 

Update, 2/5/15/ 11:55AM: An Alfa Romeo spokesperson reached by Road & Track completely denies the validity of the Automotive News report referenced above, calling it "not accurate or representative at all." The spokesperson affirmed that FCA is still on-track to begin production for the U.S. market Alfa Romeo Giulia in "late 2nd quarter 2016," beginning with the high-performance QV variant with more mainstream models to follow after that.

[Payman]

Yeah, sounds like utter bullshit to me.

[2o6]

Ive finally seen pics of these cars in lower trims.


It looks nice, I'm warming up to it.

[SJ_GTI]

Ive finally seen pics of these cars in lower trims.


It looks nice, I'm warming up to it.

Agreed, the lower level versions look very nice. This was my biggest concern was that only the QV version would be so nice looking.

That being said I have trouble seeing myself buy this over an ATS or 3-series, and frankly I feel like getting anything less than the highest performance version would be a step down from what I already drive.

[Raza]

I love it.  Want, want, want.  AWD with a manual, please, Alfa!

[AutobahnSHO]

I don't buy that they failed all crash tests and it will only take 6 months to fix the problems.

Those are MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR issues which would force them to do TONS of re-engineering. I'm thinking a year or more.

(( Unless they failed the tests a while back, fairly early on in the design, and they rushed and are only 6 months behind still))

[68_427]

I love it.  Want, want, want.  AWD with a manual, please, Alfa!

Supposedly the QV will be available with that spec

[mzziaz]

Manual only, iirc

[12,000 RPM]

FCA doesn't have the money to develop a decent DCT

[MX793]

FCA doesn't have the money to develop a decent DCT

What is Ferrari using?

[Raza]

Manual only, iirc

[Raza]

What is Ferrari using?