AMC Pacer vs. AMC Gremlin

[280Z Turbo]

[Eye of the Tiger]

Gremlin all day, every day.

[280Z Turbo]

I think I'd rather have the Pacer

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think I'd rather have the Pacer

Damn hippies

[FoMoJo]

Ugly little turds.

[280Z Turbo]

Damn hippies

The Pacer also had an available V8

[Eye of the Tiger]

The Pacer also had an available V8

But was it a super car?

[Payman]

I've always liked the Gremlin.

[Madman]

Pacer for me.

AMC not only tore-up the rulebook, they went one step further and burned the ripped pages.  Then, they stomped on the ashes and spat on them!  You have to admire that sort of iconoclastic thinking!  Oh sure, the execution was utterly shambolic in a way that only a bunch of Wisconsin cheeseheads from Kenosha could manage.  But consider that AMC designed, developed and engineered this car, all the while working from a budget that was less than what GM spends on designing a new lug nut.

With better execution plus at least some semblance of quality control and a much more efficient engine, the Pacer could have heralded a revolution in car design instead of just being an almost forgotten oddity.

[FoMoJo]

Gremlin was a Hornet with the back chopped off.  I had the distinct displeasure of having to drive one for a week way back then.  Not a good experience.

Pacer was different.  They invested in a bit of design and innovation.  The end result was just too damned ugly.

[Soup DeVille]

Gremlin was a Hornet with the back chopped off.  I had the distinct displeasure of having to drive one for a week way back then.  Not a good experience.

Pacer was different.  They invested in a bit of design and innovation.  The end result was just too damned ugly.

Yeah, the Pacer was an ambitious concept that they ran out of money on and then decided to slap the body on top of- a Hornet with the back end chopped off.

Pacer had more room, but if I was forced to choose, I'd get the Gremlin, but only if forced to.

[280Z Turbo]

Yeah, the Pacer was an ambitious concept that they ran out of money on and then decided to slap the body on top of- a Hornet with the back end chopped off.

Pacer had more room, but if I was forced to choose, I'd get the Gremlin, but only if forced to.

You disappoint me, but somehow I knew you would be a Gremlin guy. You like boxy malaise iron.

[shp4man]

Just by virtue of less choking pollution controls, the Gremlin. If I were given a choice of AMC models from that era, I'd go with:

[BimmerM3]

Based on styling alone since I know little about the cars themselves, Gremlin all the way.

[cawimmer430]

The Gremlin is probably the better [built] car, but the Pacer does "look better" in its own way.

Both can't match the elegance and design qualities of a '74 Monaco, however. 

[Madman]

To create the Gremlin, AMC's designers simply took a Sawzall to the back of a Hornet coupe.  The Pacer, on the other hand, was a bold attempt to reevaluate the entire idea of how a car should carry people.  However, this innovation came at a price.  Many blame the development costs of the Pacer for bankrupting AMC and forcing them into a shotgun marriage with Renault.

The rest, as they say, is history.

[cawimmer430]

Funny how the Pacer was supposed to be an "economy car", yet it was planned to equip it with a Wankel engine (made by GM if IIRC). Wankel engines and fuel economy don't go together.

Also, AFAIK the Pacer came with a 4.2-l inline-6 which wasn't fuel efficient at all. To my knowledge this was because of the lack of funds to develop a more efficient engine. Correct?

[MX793]

Funny how the Pacer was supposed to be an "economy car", yet it was planned to equip it with a Wankel engine (made by GM if IIRC). Wankel engines and fuel economy don't go together.

Also, AFAIK the Pacer came with a 4.2-l inline-6 which wasn't fuel efficient at all. To my knowledge this was because of the lack of funds to develop a more efficient engine. Correct?

You're mixing up the Pacer with the Chevy Vega.

[RomanChariot]

Actually, according to Wikipedia, the Pacer was originally meant to have a Wankel rotary and then they changed their plan to buy the new rotary engine that GM was developing. GM dropped the development of their rotary and AMC scrambled to shove their own inline 6 into the Pacer. I had to look this up because it matched what I remembered about the Pacer. My parents bought a sky blue Pacer when I was young. I don't have a lot of memories of it because it was a lemon and they got rid of it. Oddly enough my dad later bought a Vega. Sometimes I think he was a glutton for punishment.

[Madman]

Actually, according to Wikipedia, the Pacer was originally meant to have a Wankel rotary and then they changed their plan to buy the new rotary engine that GM was developing. GM dropped the development of their rotary and AMC scrambled to shove their own inline 6 into the Pacer. I had to look this up because it matched what I remembered about the Pacer.

All correct.  Also, conspiracy theorists have suggested the primary reason GM shelved their rotary engine was a deliberate effort to put AMC out of business.  I somehow doubt that is true, but rabid AMC loyalists swear by this story.

[280Z Turbo]

There's no way AMC would have survived

[Soup DeVille]

There's no way AMC would have survived

If you go back to about 1970, you can come up with a series of "what-ifs" that might result in Chrysler being sold to AMC after a government bailout of AMC- instead of the other way around.

But yeah, you're basically right.

[280Z Turbo]

I think a 2016 AMC would be a cheap, underdeveloped piece of shit. Kinda like a Chrysler, but worse.

[Eye of the Tiger]

There's no way AMC would have survived

If they kept making the Eagle, sales would have soared around the turn of the century.

[280Z Turbo]

Maybe Jeep would have kept them afloat.

[Soup DeVille]

If they kept making the Eagle, sales would have soared around the turn of the century.

If they had not financed The Pacer Project and instead out money into developing a Better Eagle, then- well at least that would be an AMC I'd want; so it means they would have survived, right?

[Soup DeVille]

Maybe Jeep would have kept them afloat.

Jeep doesn't keep companies afloat; Jeep makes companies worth something to the next buyer.

[280Z Turbo]

Jeep = license to print money

Without Jeep, FCA would be a charity case.

[cawimmer430]

You're mixing up the Pacer with the Chevy Vega.

GM planned to equip the Vega with a rotary?

[93JC]

Yes, they did. Do a google search for "GM rotary engine", you'll find many pictures of the two-rotor engine planned for the Vega and a few of the four-rotor prototype used in the Aerovette concept.

GM cancelled the project for the same reasons everyone except Mazda stopped developing and testing Wankel engines: they made decent power but the emissions out the tailpipe were high and the fuel efficiency was low. When GM cancelled the project AMC had to improvise, and pushed the firewall of the Pacer back to fit their straight-six engines in instead. You can see that just by looking under the hood of one. Look how far under the cowl the engine goes: