///M2 vs ///M4 Motor Trend

[12,000 RPM]

God this Jason dude is so annoying. Anyways

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP5z2cJ5aqk

[SJ_GTI]

Interesting review/comparison.

Wondering how the M2 would stack up to a Camaro, since the prices are not outrageously different. Obviously it would be slower in a straight line, but since it lapped the track faster than the M4 that likely means it could keep up with the Camaro.

[Payman]

Dinan S3 M235i Stage 3, 440 hp, full warranty, sleeper looks, about the same price as an M2. 

http://autoweek.com/article/drive-reviews/first-drive-dinan-bmw-s3

[12,000 RPM]

Personally I would be happy with an M235i with a mechanical LSD, some Bilstein coilovers and an exhaust. It makes ~350 "no BS" crank HP out of the box... what more can be deployed on the street?

Cool that the M2 is basically the M4 was supposed to be. Weird shit like the seat alignment is a shame. Looks like we are kind of entering into another era of cost cutting, if we aren't already deep into it.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

M2 and M4, those two monikers have been titillating drivers for decades.....

Seriously though, don't even know what these are anymore, is the M2 the old 135M????? Ahh, who gives a shit anyway.

[Payman]

Personally I would be happy with an M235i with a mechanical LSD, some Bilstein coilovers and an exhaust. It makes ~350 "no BS" crank HP out of the box... what more can be deployed on the street?

Cool that the M2 is basically the M4 was supposed to be. Weird shit like the seat alignment is a shame. Looks like we are kind of entering into another era of cost cutting, if we aren't already deep into it.

Yep. The manual M235i convertible is one of my dream cars, and is plenty car for me.

[12,000 RPM]

M2 and M4, those two monikers have been titillating drivers for decades.....

Seriously though, don't even know what these are anymore, is the M2 the old 135M????? Ahh, who gives a shit anyway.

Could be argued that the M2 is a step down from the 1M. 1M had the twin turbo engine, M2 makes do with the budget single turbo deal. Probably doesn't matter.... but maybe it does?

All I know is this is a thoroughly proper driving M car.

[MexicoCityM3]

It makes zero sense to get an M235i over the M2 with the pricing you get in the US. M2 includes wider track, better suspension, uprated engine internals and LSD. Plus it has actual resale value over any moddddeeeddd M235i.

[Payman]

It makes zero sense to get an M235i over the M2 with the pricing you get in the US. M2 includes wider track, better suspension, uprated engine internals and LSD. Plus it has actual resale value over any moddddeeeddd M235i.

That's true if it's owner supplied/installed mods, but Dinan is a recognized tuning house, like Alpina and Brabus. I expect a Dinan tuned M235i to hold its value as good or better than an M2.

[SJ_GTI]

It makes zero sense to get an M235i over the M2 with the pricing you get in the US. M2 includes wider track, better suspension, uprated engine internals and LSD. Plus it has actual resale value over any moddddeeeddd M235i.

I think it depends. For me? Absolutely M2 is a better deal than trying to outfit a M235i with aftermarket upgrades to match the M2.

For others the more "cruiser" nature of a M235i might be preferred. Softer suspension settings, more laid back throttle response, sunroof, slushbox over DCT/Manual, etc...

IIRC the pricing on a up-spec'd M235i is pretty much in line with the M2 so it is hard to argue with what you get for M2 money.

[SJ_GTI]

That's true if it's owner supplied/installed mods, but Dinan is a recognized tuning house, like Alpina and Brabus. I expect a Dinan tuned M235i to hold its value as good or better than an M2.

Its would also be more expensive unless you skipped a a lot options. M2 pretty much comes fully loaded.

[12,000 RPM]

SOP with modded cars = bring it back to stock before sale, deal with forum jockeys to ditch aftermarket parts. No big deal.

Price thing may still be valid but I'm waiting for the BMWUSA.com comparison to pop up... I think prices have changed from that order sheet MCM posted a while back. If that pricing is still in the ballpark then yea it's kind of a no brainer.

[SJ_GTI]

I am assuming the price sheet is accurate as well, but certainly if the M2 comes out more expensive that could change the math.

FWI, out of curiosity I spec'd an M235i on BMW's website. MSRP came out to $51,020 (including destination).

Base: 44,150
Paint: +550
Leather Seats: +1,450
Cold Weather package: +700
Tech package (Nav, etc...): +1,950
Bluetooth Integration: +350
HK Sound System: +875
Destination: +995

Another thing that makes the M235i strill worth consideration for some is also that is can come with AWD. I can see that being a tie breaker for many in the Northeast or Midwest.

[SJ_GTI]

Whoops, just realized the M2 is on BMW's website. Spec'd the way I want it:

Base: 51,700
Paint: +550
Destination: +995

Total: 53,245

Edited to add: Leather, Nav, Smartphone Integration, HK sound system, and heated seats all standard on the M2.

So a small price advantage for the M235i.

[Payman]

I think it depends. For me? Absolutely M2 is a better deal than trying to outfit a M235i with aftermarket upgrades to match the M2.

For others the more "cruiser" nature of a M235i might be preferred. Softer suspension settings, more laid back throttle response, sunroof, slushbox over DCT/Manual, etc...

IIRC the pricing on a up-spec'd M235i is pretty much in line with the M2 so it is hard to argue with what you get for M2 money.

But the Dinan doesn't match the M2. It blows past it. 440 hp vs 365, plus equal or better suspension/performance upgrades, for about the same $ as the M2.

[Payman]

That being said, I have to agree with Hector... the M2 is a much better value than the M235i. Now if it came as a convertible... 

[MexicoCityM3]

But the Dinan doesn't match the M2. It blows past it. 440 hp vs 365, plus equal or better suspension/performance upgrades, for about the same $ as the M2.

The M2 is a not very expensive tune away from that and would probably withstand it better because of the upgraded internals.

I do see the points above of wanting a softer suspension, AWD, or a droptop. In all those cases the M235i makes sense.

[Cookie Monster]

I like the presenter.

Kinda dumb that BMW doesn't let you turn off the throttle blipping individually. My car had that and I hated it so I had it removed, thankfully.

Even dumber is the crooked drivers seat. Sheesh.

[MX793]

NCs had auto Rev match?

[MexicoCityM3]

I like the presenter.

Kinda dumb that BMW doesn't let you turn off the throttle blipping individually. My car had that and I hated it so I had it removed, thankfully.

Even dumber is the crooked drivers seat. Sheesh.

I rented an M135i at Spa a year ago. I assume it has the same seat positioning issue as it's the same platform (not 100% sure). In any case I didn't notice anything unusual with it. I guess it's something that you probably wouldn't ever notice unless you were told.

[Cookie Monster]

NCs had auto Rev match?

Aftermarket tune came with it. I had it turned off after I tried it.

[Raza]

Wait, these cars have auto-rev match? 

Disqualified. 

[12,000 RPM]

Aftermarket tune came with it. I had it turned off after I tried it.

How did it know what gear you were going to? Did it come with a shift sensor?

[MX793]

How did it know what gear you were going to? Did it come with a shift sensor?

If the car has a speed sensor on the transmission input, it could be done by comparing crank speed and transmission input speed once the gear was actually engaged.

[Cookie Monster]

How did it know what gear you were going to? Did it come with a shift sensor?

I would imagine the ECU knows what gear you're going into? I played with it on track under braking only, so I'm not sure if it'd work if you downshifted to accelerate. It was a weird feeling just hitting the brakes, clutching in and going into a lower gear. As soon as you let the clutch out it'd blip the revs up. It didn't work all the time, either (couldn't get it to work well on the street) so I had it turned off. I spent a long time learning how to heel-toe anyways and didn't want some automatic system that didn't work all the time trying to do it for me.

[12,000 RPM]

I need to get a stick for my Forza rig. I still don't know how to heel toe.

[CaminoRacer]

I need to get a stick for my Forza rig. I still don't know how to heel toe.

It's difficult to even find a car that has a decent set of pedals to practice it in real life.

[Cookie Monster]

It's difficult to even find a car that has a decent set of pedals to practice it in real life.

I can do it in most cars I've driven.

Couldn't do it in the 4Runner, but I've done it in my NC, RX8, NB, my dad's G37, E39 M5, E30, etc.

[Cookie Monster]

I need to get a stick for my Forza rig. I still don't know how to heel toe.

I just learned how to do it in my car.

[MX793]

I could downshift while left foot braking in my Mazda.

I rev match all downshifts (frequently double clutch, mostly out of habit) and frequently heel-toe in daily driving.