VW will buy back U.S. Diesels

[veeman]

VW agrees to buy back diesels or "fix" them.  Owners decide.  Not every diesel model is affected (not the 3L ones I think).  Basically almost 500,000 U.S. cars on the road can be bought back by VW!  I doubt more than 20% will get them "fixed" instead.  Analysts are saying dieselgate will cost VW between 40 and 50 billion dollars by the time it's done.

Now the Europeans are pissed because there's no buyback there (less stringent emissions requirements for diesel) and they didn't get the 1000 dollar goodwill cash.

My diesel beetle is 2.5 years old with 55 thousand miles on it.  No way I'll get it "fixed".  The warranty is over, I need to replace the tires soon, and I know the turbo will fail soon after 100,000 miles.  I like the car but now I'm excited about what to get next.

[12,000 RPM]

Jesus M.F. Christ

Anyone know what their profits were in 2014 and how much cash they have on hand

[Raza]

What are the terms of the buyback? 

[veeman]

I don't know the terms of the buyback but I'm assuming some book value plus some compensation for loss of that book value.  The announcement was made today.  There's some judge, Judge Breyer, who is overseeing almost everything dieselgate related in the U.S.  He gave VW a deadline of today to come up with a plan and reportedly he was pissed that the VW diesels were still on the road with no "fix" 7 months after dieselgate started.

[Raza]

I don't know the terms of the buyback but I'm assuming some book value plus some compensation for loss of that book value.  The announcement was made today.  There's some judge, Judge Breyer, who is overseeing almost everything dieselgate related in the U.S.  He gave VW a deadline of today to come up with a plan and reportedly he was pissed that the VW diesels were still on the road with no "fix" 7 months after dieselgate started.

I would imagine there are cutoffs as well.  I wouldn't get set on the buyback until the terms are known. 

[MrH]

Are they just going to crush these things, or do they actually have a viable fix?  I wouldn't mind a super low mile, clean Jetta Sport Wagon diesel with a stick for pennies on the dollar

Ohio doesn't smog test anyways.  Just rip the exhaust back out and flash the thing.

[MX793]

Buy back will reportedly be based on the value before the dieselgate scandal torpedoed resale values.

[cawimmer430]

The official excuse as to why no European VW diesel owner will get cash is because of "different regulation laws."

[giant_mtb]

It's sad how disposable cars have become. People are gonna discard housands of perfectly usable cars because they found out they're a little dirty out the tailpipe.

[ifcar]

It's sad how disposable cars have become. People are gonna discard housands of perfectly usable cars because they found out they're a little dirty out the tailpipe.

Well, usable but not compliant with the law. It's not like the minimum standards for a car to be sold in the U.S. are "well, it runs, doesn't it?"

Also, we don't know that the cars are being scrapped; if there is a cost-effective fix, VW can do the fix and resell them.

[2o6]

I feel like brand loyalty about these diesels means that I don't think many as we think will be bought back. A great deal of people who bought VW diesels bought them because they wanted them.

It's sad how disposable cars have become. People are gonna discard housands of perfectly usable cars because they found out they're a little dirty out the tailpipe.

A lot dirty. The car technically was never really legal to sell here.

[giant_mtb]

There are thousands and thousands of vehicles being bought/sold every day that are on the road that don't or no longer meet regulation.  Where's the buyback for those?

[2o6]

There are thousands and thousands of vehicles being bought/sold every day that are on the road that don't or no longer meet regulation.  Where's the buyback for those?

These didn't meet regulations since day one. They never met emissions regulations.

[giant_mtb]

I guesssssss 😧

[veeman]

I guesssssss 😧

If you, within the last few years, bought a diesel VW would you:

a.  Bring your car in to be "fixed" knowing your fuel economy will drop as will performance, be saddled with hardware/software which in all likelihood will require "adjustments" periodically requiring you to go to a VW dealer, be required perhaps by your state to undergo additional emissions testing in order to renew registration, and get little money in the future if you were to try and trade it in or sell it privately.

vs

b. Have VW buy back your car at a pre dieselgate trade in value.

Yes, one could "rip out" and/or "flash" the new hardware and software after it's been put in, but few I think would actively as opposed to passively seek to have a dirtier car for performance. It's not like these cars are used a lot at the track.

[2o6]

I don't think the fix will be that serious or limiting in power or economy.

[veeman]

I don't think the fix will be that serious or limiting in power or economy.

If that were the case, VW wouldn't have cheated in the first place.  I doubt it was strictly a cost issue for initially cheating but a combo of cost, fuel econ, and performance.

[veeman]

These weren't any engineers who couldn't figure it out.  They were German engineers

[cawimmer430]

I don't think the fix will be that serious or limiting in power or economy.

In a German test of a TDI-powered Volkswagen Amarok after the software was removed, the car was slightly slower and had slightly worse fuel economy.

[12,000 RPM]

I guesssssss

You are in poor form today bro, take a break

[Cookie Monster]

I feel like brand loyalty about these diesels means that I don't think many as we think will be bought back. A great deal of people who bought VW diesels bought them because they wanted them.

A lot dirty. The car technically was never really legal to sell here.

If your state requires smog, I bet owners would rather dump the car rather than have to deal with the fixes. Plus, I wouldn't underestimate the cash aspect, either. Why not get greater than market value for your car? Even if you're loyal to VW, you can take that money and go buy another VW (no doubt VW will have mad cash rebates and discounts and customer loyalty programs).

[giant_mtb]

You are in poor form today bro, take a break

[veeman]

In a German test of a TDI-powered Volkswagen Amarok after the software was removed, the car was slightly slower and had slightly worse fuel economy.

And that's using German emissions requirements which are less strict than U.S. requirements.

The very fact that in 7 months despite immense both internal and external pressure (I'm talking Steve Jobs on his employees type of pressure), there has been no viable solution from VW engineering indicates they don't have any solution which maintains acceptable performance/fuel economy and doesn't cost several thousand dollars.  It's easier and cheaper when considering U.S. tort to just do a buyback.

[12,000 RPM]

If your state requires smog, I bet owners would rather dump the car rather than have to deal with the fixes. Plus, I wouldn't underestimate the cash aspect, either. Why not get greater than market value for your car? Even if you're loyal to VW, you can take that money and go buy another VW (no doubt VW will have mad cash rebates and discounts and customer loyalty programs).

Yep

I dont think the cars will get junked. They will probably ship them en masse to markets with less stringent emissions requirements.

[veeman]

Yep

I dont think the cars will get junked. They will probably ship them en masse to markets with less stringent emissions requirements.

I was thinking about the public relations nightmare regarding that.  A hundred thousand VWs being shipped to Latin America or Europe because they were too dirty for the U.S.  Can't see it happen.  First we're building a wall and you're paying for it and now we're gonna throw poo over the wall at you. 

[MrH]

And that's using German emissions requirements which are less strict than U.S. requirements.

The very fact that in 7 months despite immense both internal and external pressure (I'm talking Steve Jobs on his employees type of pressure), there has been no viable solution from VW engineering indicates they don't have any solution which maintains acceptable performance/fuel economy and doesn't cost several thousand dollars.  It's easier and cheaper when considering U.S. tort to just do a buyback.

What's the end result with the cars though?  Now VW has a half a million of their vehicles that can't meet emissions.  Do they crush them?  Send them to other countries?  Try some sort of urea system to make them compliant with US standards and then resell them?

[12,000 RPM]

Sergio will buy them and resell them as 2017 200s

[AutobahnSHO]

Yep

I dont think the cars will get junked. They will probably ship them en masse to markets with less stringent emissions requirements.

This, but they can't do it in public.

[Tave]

[MrH]

Please tell me you're going to take the $5k and buyback, and get another Aveo.