Catman: Help Desparately Needed!

[J86]

So I got arrested Monday night.

Catman- I was wondering if you might be able to answer some questions I have.  I'll provide the story so you know the details...

Two buddies and I were headed to Vermont to go skiing Monday night.  At about 10:30 we were driving down I-81 in New Hampshire when we were pulled over for 81 in a 65.  My buddy who's car it is was driving, I was riding shotgun, another in the back seat.  It's a Jeep Grand Cherokee, so the trunk is visible from the road.  We had two 24s of Bud Lite in the back, very poorly covered by a jacket.  The cop said he would give us only a warning (which was fair seeing as the only cars on the road this time of night were us and an 18 wheeler), but then asked if we had any beer.  Not so much asked as kind of stated and waited for us to respond.  Knowing that the beer was only half covered and he had probably seen it (he shined his light through the car as he walked up) we said yes, two 24s.  He pulled my friend, the driver out, spoke with him for awhile and then came back to the car and told my friend and I to get out.  He then informed us he would be taking us in to custody for possession of alcohol as a minor because "we take this very seriously up here" and said he would have to have the car towed.  So the three of us sat in the back of the cruiser and watched as my friends Jeep was hauled off- THAT was a painful sight!  We were then taken to a local station (statie pulled us over) and waited for an hour until the guy who arranges bail came by.  We signed all sorts of forms and posted $30 bail each, and received summons to appear in Newport District Court (NH) Feb. 7.  The arresting officer had informed us earlier that we would need a "responsible adult" to come get us out.  He said he would not release us even though we are all over 18, and he would not release us to anyone over 18, had to be a "responsible adult".  Upon my asking, he provided no other information.  So I called a friend who lives in the area and her father very kindly came up and got us out.  The cop also called all of our parents, even though all of us are over 18.  So now my quesitons:

1.  At no point were we read out rights.  Is this legal?
2. We were not allowed to pay our bail and leave, even though we are all legal adults.  Is this legal?
3. He called our parents even though we are all legal adults.  Is this legal?

Assuming that the state trooper made errors in those instances, would it be possible to get the case thrown out?  Arraignment is scheduled for Feb.  In the state of NH, this is a criminal offense.  If I could somehow make this go away, it would be nice.  Catman, what is your opinion based on experience of the ability to erase this on a technicality like that.  Thanks for any help...

-Josh  

[Speed_Racer]

Gotta love those NH staties.  

Good luck finding answers. I really wonder why they wouldn't let you go even though you were over 18 and posted bail. Do they make 50 year olds call their grandparents to get them out of jail?  :D

How was skiing, or did this ruin the trip?

[giant_mtb]

I'd be pissed if that was me.  I'm anxious to see what Catman has to say about your questions...

[dazzleman]

J86, sorry to hear about your problems, man.  That really sucks.

I'll defer to Catman's answer when he responds, but I suggest you retain a local lawyer.  This case is just screaming to be knocked down to something inconsequential, if not dismissed.  I don't know about all the legalities of calling parents if you're over 18, but I think it is a common practice with alcohol offenses.  You need a lawyer who knows how to manipulate the system, and get you off with a light fine and something that won't go on your record in any way.

Good luck, man, and let me know how it turns out.

[mazda6er]

1.  At no point were we read out rights.  Is this legal?
2. We were not allowed to pay our bail and leave, even though we are all legal adults.  Is this legal?
3. He called our parents even though we are all legal adults.  Is this legal?

That sucks man.  I have the unfortunate feeling though that the police officers didn't do anything illegal there.

[Colonel Cadillac]

Was the beer good?

By any chance, was it near Keene, NH?

[Lazerous]

well first I suggest you google up the law about driving with alcohol in NH, and find out if there are any loop holes or something where a lawyer can help you out, also find out what degree misdemeanor it is

For example, im not sure if you remember the thread I posted about being stopped by a cop for racing, but I went and googled the law against racing in FL and find out it was a 2nd degree misdemeanor ( i think there going to change it to a 1st degree this new year) so ya it was pretty bad, but even with that I went to court without a lawyer, plead guilty and got out VERY easy, the prosecuter put me on a pre-trial diversion where all I had to do was pay $60 and do 20hrs of community service wherever I wanted. But you have to have a CLEAN record for them to give you a pre-trial diversion like they did for me

If you have a clean record then I suggest you call up your prosecuter,or even better I suggest you go meet him in person so you can show him that you really care, and ask him what options you have.

Thats almost all the advice I can give, hope it helps :)

[J86]

Speed_Racer: tell me about it.  I can't stand that state!  My one speeding ticket is from NH as is this mess, so much for "Live Free or Die".  More like "Life Free or Die, unless you are a college kid we can make a buttload of money off of"!  Skiing wasn't bad, went up to Sugarbush for a day, had to cut it short though as we blew all of our money on the ride up...

dazzle- Am talking to some friends whose parents are lawyers, will get their input and keep my fingers crossed.

mazda- Unfortunately, I think you are probably right, or at least they did nothing that would make a judge toss it.

Colonel- It was Bud Lite, so...  Happened in Grantham, NH.

Lazerous- I will be there plenty early.  Unfortunately, this is a criminal offense, not a misdemeanor.

[dazzleman]

Speed_Racer: tell me about it.  I can't stand that state!  My one speeding ticket is from NH as is this mess, so much for "Live Free or Die".  More like "Life Free or Die, unless you are a college kid we can make a buttload of money off of"!  Skiing wasn't bad, went up to Sugarbush for a day, had to cut it short though as we blew all of our money on the ride up...

dazzle- Am talking to some friends whose parents are lawyers, will get their input and keep my fingers crossed.

mazda- Unfortunately, I think you are probably right, or at least they did nothing that would make a judge toss it.

Colonel- It was Bud Lite, so...  Happened in Grantham, NH.

Lazerous- I will be there plenty early.  Unfortunately, this is a criminal offense, not a misdemeanor.

Well, at least you weren't driving, man.  First you get a speeding ticket, and now this.  You obviously have a problem with rules, young man.  :P

I have to say, I'm pretty much a law and order guy, but I think this is ridiculous.  Honestly, a few guys over 18 heading on a ski trip, driving moderately above the speed limit, with some beer in the back that they weren't drinking.  I don't see much of a problem with that at all, as long as the containers weren't opened and the driver had no BAC.  If I were the cop, I'd have given your buddy the speeding ticket, which is nothing, and maybe, if I really wanted to bust balls, a mail-in citation for the beer.  Since you guys were apparently polite and forthcoming, I probably would have let you off lighter than that, maybe cutting him a break on the speeding ticket and overlooking the beer.

Dude, I wouldn't worry too much about this.  In a year, it will be something that you laugh about with your buddies.  For now, you need a local lawyer who can get it down to a small fine, and be done with the f&$king thing.

How about the New Hampshire staties for spreading a little Christmas cheer.  Next time, follow my rule -- one illegal activity at a time.  If I'm speeding, I make sure all else is in order.  If I have something else going on that could get me into trouble, I don't speed.

[J86]

Oh, I'm not unduly worried.  Just something I would like to make disappear if at all possible.  Yeah, tell me about being unnecessarily harsh (IMO...).  We're already laughing about it now!  Actually, we were having a hard time keeping a straight face in the cop car.  It was straight out of Super Troopers, I was DIEING to make a snozberry comment but thought that wouldn't really help our case so much...  We didn't give the guy any lip- that never got anyone anywhere.  He was just very by the book.  

Yeah, about making sure you're only doing one thing wrong at a time...  When I spoke to my dad, his only reaction was "You didn't cover the beer!  Idiot!"  Old man has a point...

[dazzleman]

Oh, I'm not unduly worried.  Just something I would like to make disappear if at all possible.  Yeah, tell me about being unnecessarily harsh (IMO...).  We're already laughing about it now!  Actually, we were having a hard time keeping a straight face in the cop car.  It was straight out of Super Troopers, I was DIEING to make a snozberry comment but thought that wouldn't really help our case so much...  We didn't give the guy any lip- that never got anyone anywhere.  He was just very by the book.  

Yeah, about making sure you're only doing one thing wrong at a time...  When I spoke to my dad, his only reaction was "You didn't cover the beer!  Idiot!"  Old man has a point...

Yeah, much as we hate to admit it, the old man is usually right.     It sounds as if your dad is pretty cool about it, and that's good.  A guy I know had a similar thing happen in a bar.  He got busted for underage drinking and even though he was over 18, they called his dad.  His dad was pissed, and called him a 'f&$king axxhole' over the phone.  I thought that was a little harsh on the dad's part.  I don't think I'd be too upset if my 18-year-old son had something like this happen -- in fact, I'd pretty much expect something like this, and I'd be delighted that it wasn't something a lot worse.

I'm glad you're laughing about it already.  It is pretty funny, actually.  I wouldn't have minded it happening to me at your age.  Back then, they were much more lenient about this stuff, and the drinking age was 18.  I was buying beer when I was in high school and transporting it, and never got in trouble for it.

It's good to hear you kept a straight face while you were with the cops.  The time to laugh is after you get away from them.

[J86]

The Old Man got picked up when he was in school (at Colby up in Maine) for various nefarious activities so he understands...  This is the TIME for this stuff to happen!  Wouldn't want to feel as if I'd missed out on an integral part of my youth... :D  

[dazzleman]

The Old Man got picked up when he was in school (at Colby up in Maine) for various nefarious activities so he understands...  This is the TIME for this stuff to happen!  Wouldn't want to feel as if I'd missed out on an integral part of my youth... :D

That's right man.  :P   A few minor scrapes with the law don't do you any harm, as long as you don't end up with a record.  This type of stuff -- speeding tickets, underage drinking violations, etc. -- doesn't amount to anything.  Just avoid anything that creates a permanent criminal record.

It's always good to have a dad who pulled these types of stunts himself.  Funny though, one of my best friends pulled all sorts of stunts when he was younger.  He got countless speeding tickets, stopped his car on a highway and pissed in the middle lane (he was drunk), and even blew the back door off a local Howard Johnson's restaurant in his neighborhood using 4 M-80s because he and his friends had some ongoing dispute with the manager.  Yet now, he's so harsh in his attitude toward kids doing even the slightest thing wrong.  It's like he doesn't remember his own youth.  I didn't do half the stuff he did, and I'm much more laid back about it.

[Tom]

Sorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything.  Maybe a small fine or a little community service.  Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????

[dazzleman]

Sorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything.  Maybe a small fine or a little community service.  Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????

I know, man.  If those guys were going to get arrested over beer, at least it could have been a decent beer.     Maybe Stella or something like that.

[Tom]

Sorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything.  Maybe a small fine or a little community service.  Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????

I know, man.  If those guys were going to get arrested over beer, at least it could have been a decent beer.     Maybe Stella or something like that.

Word.  The cop might have even let them go for a small commission if he found something good :D  

[dazzleman]

Sorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything.? Maybe a small fine or a little community service.? Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????

I know, man.  If those guys were going to get arrested over beer, at least it could have been a decent beer.     Maybe Stella or something like that.

Word.  The cop might have even let them go for a small commission if he found something good :D

 :P  

[City Pig]

This is the sort of crap that:

A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.

Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please.  

Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.  

[Lazerous]

This is the sort of crap that:

A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.

Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please.  

Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.

I would not be surprised if he was new on the highway patrol unit, since to tell you the truth, if I just became a cop and got my own car and powers and all that fancy shmancy stuff, hell yeah I would love to get somebody nailed from the first second. And that my friends, is why I would never make a good cop

[Raza]

What have I been telling you?  When transporting, wrap it like a present!

[Catman]

1.  At no point were we read out rights.  Is this legal?

You should have been read your rights during the booking procedure.  Regardless, if the Trooper asked you incriminating questions after he developed probable cause then those statements will most likely be tossed.  The bottom line is that he had probable cause to arrest right after discovering the beer so, no, he doesn't have to read you your rights.

2. We were not allowed to pay our bail and leave, even though we are all legal adults.  Is this legal?

In MA you would have been released.  NH may do things differently.

3. He called our parents even though we are all legal adults.  Is this legal?

See the last answer.


I can tell you with 99% certainty that your case (since you weren't the driver) is going to be tossed.  The driver is in charge of the vehicle and in MA, anyone under 21 cannot transport alcohol.  However, in your situation, you are a passenger and had no access to the trunk area where you were sitting.  Had it been under your seat  it might be a little harder to distance yourself but this is an easy one.  Now, there could be a more stringent definition of possession in NH but I doubt it.  It's a weak case on your end.  Your friend might get spanked however.  Don't drive with beer in the car!! :angry:

Soory, I didn't read all the responses since I'm at work.

[Catman]

This is the sort of crap that:

A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.

Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please.  

Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.

Check your PM's :D  

[dazzleman]

This is the sort of crap that:

A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.

Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please.  

Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.

CityPig, it's good to see you over here man.  Welcome.

[J86]

Sorry to hear about that, but I bet you'll get a fairly light sentence if anything.  Maybe a small fine or a little community service.  Still, I'm disappointed in you...Bud Lite????

I know, man.  If those guys were going to get arrested over beer, at least it could have been a decent beer.     Maybe Stella or something like that.

We're cheap, and for 'ruit I'm not gonna use nice beer!

[J86]

This is the sort of crap that:

A ) Pisses me off, and
B ) Gives cops a bad name.

Give him a reduced speeding ticket, make sure they aren't drinking while driving and send them on their way. Like he never drank underage. Please.  

Oh, and I can't help you since our rules are different.

Thank you, your version does make a little more sense to me.

Lazerous- he was very young, and didn't know how to get to the town police station.  (He was state).  Had to ask another cop.

[J86]

Thanks, Catman.  I can only hope that they toss mine, but I seriously doubt it.  I've got to show up for court, and once they have me I don't think they'll want to lose the fine money by letting it go.  Do you think it would be worth putting up a defense along the lines of "It's not my beer, I wasn't driving, not my car, etc."  'Course, I don't think I'd do that if I can't get my friends off either, I don't want to hang them out to dry.

[ciciusss]

Thanks, Catman.  I can only hope that they toss mine, but I seriously doubt it.  I've got to show up for court, and once they have me I don't think they'll want to lose the fine money by letting it go.  Do you think it would be worth putting up a defense along the lines of "It's not my beer, I wasn't driving, not my car, etc."  'Course, I don't think I'd do that if I can't get my friends off either, I don't want to hang them out to dry.

J86,

I just wanted to follow up on a few things that Catman said. First as for reading you your rights. Three questions have to be answered when considering Miranda.

1) Was he a law enforcement officer or agent?
2) Was he interviewing or conducting an interrogation?
3) Were you in custody?

If one of these three are missing, it is not a Miranda issue. The questioning about the beer in the car was prior to custody. The trooper had no reason to arrest any of you prior to questioning (although he probably had reasonable suspicion, which in itself does not meet the Miranda threshhold). He developed probable cause during the questioning when you answered in the affirmative that you guys had been drinking beer. Once he had sufficient PC to conduct an arrest, it is at that point if he is going to continue questioning you that Miranda becomes an issue. So if I read your post right, the statements you made to the trooper will most likely stand.

As for you having to be released to your parents, unless NH has some funky law that I am not aware of, you should have been able to bond out on your own since you are over 18 years of age.

Finally, don't sweat this. Catman is correct in that the charges against you will probably be tossed. At worst you will receive a fine and have a misdemeanor on your record and it is a misdemeanor that is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

[Catman]

I just talked to a Nahua NH guy and he referenced a court case in which some teens were relieved of their beer buy police and sent on their way.  Later that night they aquired more beer, crashed and were killed.  So, now case law practically dictates arrest in these situations and they've taken much of the officer discretion away.  He said it was State v. Kingston but I couldn't find it so he might be off.  As for the bail situation he told me that it sounded right.  

[Catman]

Thanks, Catman.  I can only hope that they toss mine, but I seriously doubt it.  I've got to show up for court, and once they have me I don't think they'll want to lose the fine money by letting it go.  Do you think it would be worth putting up a defense along the lines of "It's not my beer, I wasn't driving, not my car, etc."  'Course, I don't think I'd do that if I can't get my friends off either, I don't want to hang them out to dry.

J86,

I just wanted to follow up on a few things that Catman said. First as for reading you your rights. Three questions have to be answered when considering Miranda.

1) Was he a law enforcement officer or agent?
2) Was he interviewing or conducting an interrogation?
3) Were you in custody?

If one of these three are missing, it is not a Miranda issue. The questioning about the beer in the car was prior to custody. The trooper had no reason to arrest any of you prior to questioning (although he probably had reasonable suspicion, which in itself does not meet the Miranda threshhold). He developed probable cause during the questioning when you answered in the affirmative that you guys had been drinking beer. Once he had sufficient PC to conduct an arrest, it is at that point if he is going to continue questioning you that Miranda becomes an issue. So if I read your post right, the statements you made to the trooper will most likely stand.

As for you having to be released to your parents, unless NH has some funky law that I am not aware of, you should have been able to bond out on your own since you are over 18 years of age.

Finally, don't sweat this. Catman is correct in that the charges against you will probably be tossed. At worst you will receive a fine and have a misdemeanor on your record and it is a misdemeanor that is not that big of a deal and the grand scheme of things.

BTW, things have gotten really ugly on that Autoweek thread. :angry:  

[Secret Chimp]

I just talked to a Nahua NH guy and he referenced a court case in which some teens were relieved of their beer buy police and sent on their way.  Later that night they aquired more beer, crashed and were killed.  So, now case law practically dictates arrest in these situations and they've taken much of the officer discretion away.  He said it was State v. Kingston but I couldn't find it so he might be off.  As for the bail situation he told me that it sounded right.

Sounds more like a case of natural selection at work to me =P